Sivadam Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) I have had my wrists slapped for some of my recent posts on the Forums. If I have offended anybody with any of my posts then I apologise for this. That has never been my intention. I started contributing to these Forums as, at the time, there was so much unfounded negativity re. SIMS, Schoolcomms and SLG, which needed addressing. At the time, there appeared to be few that were actually refuting some of the statements that were being made. As a very experienced and knowledgable SIMS User I felt that I had to correct some of these very disturbing messages, that I believe were not conveying an accurate picture of an excellent system. I make no apologies for this. As long as I am contributing to these Forums I will continue to emphasis the good points of SIMS etc. and to correct any misconceptions that I come across. None of this is personal and I would hope that anybody who has issues with anything I say will have the courage to contact me directly. I have been ruffling feathers in education for over 40 years and I doubt I can stop now. In any case it is needed at times. As I have said in other Threads, SIMS is far from perfect - and nor can it ever be as Capita strive to adapt to the many new innovations and to the varying demands of DCSF. I am one of their biggest critics - the difference being that I direct most of my comments directly to Capita, in a constructive manner. I also spend a fair proportion of my time in helping, in my own small way, with testing etc etc. This direct contact helps to ensure that my school is fully proficient in many, many different aspects of Capita's SIMS system! Those of you who recognise me from SupporNet will no doubt concur with this view. Edited December 8, 2009 by witch
pete Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I think the problem is you're a bit too quick to dive in and defend SIMS, so you come across as a raging fanboy . Sometimes people just want to bitch about software or hardware - they're venting, which is healthy. Having someone charge in and say "but it's wonderful!" (especially if they've been wrestling with it for the last hour) does nothing good to their blood pressure.
Sivadam Posted December 8, 2009 Author Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Point taken. However, the quicker something is refuted or solved then the less panic it will cause c.f. the post re SLG and SQL Server 2008. And a quick query rather than a moan will, no doubt, illicit a more positive response! We all have much to learn. If this is just a place to moan then maybe I should go away. But then would others fill the breech? They did not seem to before! And Yes! - I admit to being a fan. At least what I am supporting is better than my local soccer team, which I also support! As for the 'boy' bit - there is no way that could be true! And 'raging' - I ceased to do that many, many years ago! Edited December 8, 2009 by Sivadam
GREED Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 ahahahaha thats the funniest thing I have ever heard, Mike! I don't like it when forums turn into electronic voiceboard, nor when they turn into e-playgrounds with slanging matches booming from either side of the fence (I should write for a living me!). However, last time I checked this was a forum for adults... need I say more? I have 'worked' with this guy online for years and know that he is someone that is a) usually right! and b) never unfairly biased for anything. But from the jist I am getting here, there must have been a fair amount coming your way too... Also, if you support your football team or whatever, then you're gonna defend them no matter what, right? :D:D 1
dalsoth Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I had my wrist smacked too recently for a few posts but not for being a raging fanbois, more a raging nutcase I am sure that your posts were meant with the best of intentions. Although i do not manage Sims myself, i think that it does a good job here from staff feedback. Nice and easy to install too. All too often you get someone on these forums who will vent at a product and then later recant when they realise that the problem lay elsewhere. Same thing happens with RM posts and i do believe even Sophos used to be raged about in the past. Always good to have someone fight both corners though as long as too many do not get offended. I have to physically stop myself posting sometimes because i can see trouble brewing if i express my opinion on the screen 1
Sivadam Posted December 8, 2009 Author Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) Thanks Graham for those kind words. I know that you will be sorely missed from the Forums when move on to your next appointment. Your input has also been very valuable and appreciated by many. I will continue to speak out for what is right. Nobody in Education has ever been able to silence me. My worst trait is that I always say it as it is and don't hide behind 'policies' etc. If the Forums cannot accept that then I suppose at some stage I will get banned, but that will be because I have not told the truth, as I see it! As for defending the soccer team - they better perform tonight or else maybe I may well be contacting their Product Manager! Edited December 8, 2009 by Sivadam
matt40k Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Sorry your getting grief Mike. I think the words, you take a dog to water but you can't make it drink comes to mine alot of the time. My biggest two "pains" is when someone who knows what they are talking about posts, and resolved the original problem, and then someone who thinks they know what they are talking about replies and confuses the matter. I wish the mods would close the threads! The other problem is when your talking about product A and then someone starts talking about product B. I mean if you've just spent £££ on something I doubt you would like the idea of spending more £££ on something else. 2
teejay Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Just to clarify that I posted the SLG SQL 2008 bit and it's definitely not me whose made any complaint, just thought it may have come across that I'd gone whinging to the mods Was perfectly fine with the response, it was just a case of mixed messages from different people at Capita causing some confusion:) 1
pete Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 If this is just a place to moan then maybe I should go away. Nah, keep posting. I suppose it's more: Plenty of people (myself included) shoot themselves in the foot enough times - a decent solution to however we've broken $foo is more appreciated than someone pointing out we're a 'tard and the product's invincible. You can point out we're a prat once you've helped us fix the problem . (I'm not saying you've ever done that, but hopefully you get my meaning). 1
Sivadam Posted December 8, 2009 Author Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) No problem teejay I didn't think for a moment that it was you. You have flagged up a genuine concern and from a source that would seem to have been genuine. I am just glad that I have the connections to be able check the rumour quickly. As of this moment none of my contacts has got back to me to say that they have any issues. Pete, No problem - I'll try and modify how I say things - tho' those that know me will appreciate how hard that has been for the past nth decades! In Yorkshire, for me, I am afraid a spade will always be a ............. errrrrr ............... 'spade'! Edited December 8, 2009 by Sivadam
Edu-IT Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I don't know what posts have caused trouble for you but the way I see it is, as long as you're going about it in the right way, then there's no need for anyone to complain when you support or don't support a company/product. If you go in all guns blazing and use unsuitable language etc. then yes, I appreciate that the moderators will slap wrists, but if your point is valid and made properly. Who cares? If you want to say how great SIMS are, then so be it. If that is infact the issue. There are people on here praising suppliers and such all the time. I wouldn't worry. Stick around, keep posting, and keep smiling! 1
Sivadam Posted December 8, 2009 Author Posted December 8, 2009 (edited) You work at my old school and (I'm guessing) you're a blade. You can do no wrong in my eyes! Blade! Blade! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!! NO WAY !!!!!! (Though I do wish they could finish second in every competition!) Edu-It, Thank you so much for those kind words. No bad language will ever be posted here by me. The blunt, bald truth maybe - but that often hurts some people, I am afraid. It would be interesting if my moderated comments were re-posted so that others can make their minds up. I will refrain from doing that. Incidently I have told the administrator what I think and mentioned a little about the context that my comments were made in - which he could have known nothing about and I will ellucidate no further! Anyway - time to shut up for a while - it's home time! Yippeee! I wonder if I will still have access later tonight...... Then again I will be in sunny Doncaster trying to cheer on that other source of my support! Yes - that just about sums me up! Edited December 8, 2009 by Sivadam
danrhodes Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 Dear me have you been upsetting people again Mike! How are you, not seen you in aaaaaaaages! Dan
MattMitchell Posted December 8, 2009 Posted December 8, 2009 I think there are worse things to get upset about. Yes, Mike, you're strongly polarised in favour of SIMS, but it works for you! I've seen you in action and can attest to its effective use in your school, as well as your strong competence in using the software. A lot of posts on edugeek about SIMS are made by people who haven't been given the training they need to use the MIS fully, and as a result have run into problems. I personally feel that the opprobrium directed at SIMS and Capita is only partly dented by Sivadam's defence, and he should definitely continue to post in order to keep a balance! Really, SupportNet is a better place for SIMS help as there are more trained users there (and it's a closed forum, which sometimes helps) - but this forum here has the advantage of not being tied to one MIS, and also permits discussion of issues that no sane supplier would allow on their own website. I think people need to relax a bit - keep it up, Mike! 1
Sivadam Posted December 9, 2009 Author Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) Dear me have you been upsetting people again Mike! How are you, not seen you in aaaaaaaages! Dan You know me Dan - I say it as I see it. And, despite my age, my eyes are still pretty good! My brain is still as logical and analytical as ever. My tongue (and in this case my keyboard) is also as sharp as ever. And to the rest of you guys - thank you for your support! If I disappear from here then you will all know the reason. I can't change my spots at this age so I would just like to say, should it come to it, that it has been great discussing MIS issues with the majority of you and I will see all you SIMS experts on SupportNet as usual! Edited December 9, 2009 by Sivadam
vikpaw Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Plenty of people (myself included) shoot themselves in the foot enough times - a decent solution to however we've broken $foo is more appreciated than someone pointing out we're a 'tard and the product's invincible. You can point out we're a prat once you've helped us fix the problem . Good point. I think emphasising the solution would be more helpful than reiterating "I'm here to change the way you think", or "I'm fed up of people misunderstanding SIMS" etc. I think the problem some people have is that they feel you are telling them off, or implying they don't have enough training / understanding. Yes it may be true, but that is the case in some schools. There are misunderstandings and quite often from Capita staff. Most users don't have your contacts, so if their LA / Capita rep tells them something they have to take it as given. It's good that you correct these misconceptions, however if you can do that without preaching (dont take offense at that word), less people will have their noses out of joint, and therefore be more willing to listen to what you have got to say. This is positive constructive criticism. If you can find a way to get through to more people you will be more successful on your mission, so don't take any actions taken as negative or against you, they are for the good of the community. On a lighter note, since Pete mentioned shooting yourself in the foot: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/jokes-interweb-things/29746-programmers-quick-guide-languages.html 1
Sivadam Posted December 9, 2009 Author Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) That is fine Vic - as long as you address the other problem that I referred to and which you have moderated off of my posts so that others cannot see what the fuss was about! Maybe you can enlighten them! Also, please advise others that making a statement that SIMS 'WILL NOT' do something will illicit a similar response to those I normally post, if it is an untrue statement. As with SupportNet, if contributors ask HOW to do something then they will most likely get a positive answer - and I will probably be one of those making that positive answer! I have been accused of waging a crusade. If that is how people want to view it then fine! If somebody is extremely negative about something that they have no understanding of then I will correct them. If you want to remove me from Edugeek because of this then so be it! In my humble opinion these forums will be the poorer as a result! As I have said many times - my many posts on SupportNet are testamy to how positive and helpful I can be. As a regular contributor to SupportNet yourself you know this. I had great respect for you before this but I must admit to that respect now being a little tarnished! I make a brilliant ally but I am capable of being the most formidable enemy you will ever meet! Edited December 9, 2009 by Sivadam
AyatollahPies Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 I think you should get a slapped wrist for repeatedly calling the beautiful game 'Soccer'. 1
GREED Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Me thinks somewhat this thread is degrading into the same pit as the last?? 1
Sivadam Posted December 9, 2009 Author Posted December 9, 2009 Me thinks somewhat this thread is degrading into the same pit as the last?? Sorry Graham, There was no need for Vic to publicly criticise me again directly in a Forum. How can I ignore that? He could just as easily have pm'd me again!
Domino Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Possibly he's responding as you're kicking up such a fuss? He's perfectly entitled to explain what his outlook is. 1
Sivadam Posted December 9, 2009 Author Posted December 9, 2009 Possibly he's responding as you're kicking up such a fuss? He's perfectly entitled to explain what his outlook is. As am I ............
localzuk Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Sivadam - the problem as I see it is this - you seem to hold the position that SIMS.net and Capita can do no wrong. That is the way your posts come across and your attitude when someone challenges that is one of indignation. You seem to take it almost personally. The simple fact of the matter is that SIMS.net is not perfect, Capita and their support system is not perfect. People at Capita sometimes send out mixed messages, or say the wrong thing. This then causes strife on the ground in schools. Throw in LEA SIMS support teams and you enter a whole 'Chinese whispers' world of pain. Whilst you have contacts that not everyone has, and you've had an excellent response from the SupportNet site, others don't and haven't. (I'd be one of them with regards to supportnet, I've asked a few questions on there in the past with only 1 or 2 responses across them all, some of them simply being ignored). The method of change requests used by Capita is much like the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy 'plans on display in a locked cabinet in a room in a basement' method... Most users know nothing about the site. Searching CR's is near impossible etc... So, people get upset, that's understandable. You don't know the exact situation they're in, so why get all flustered about it? It just gets you in trouble. 3
witch Posted December 9, 2009 Posted December 9, 2009 Sivadam - the problem as I see it is this - you seem to hold the position that SIMS.net and Capita can do no wrong. That is the way your posts come across and your attitude when someone challenges that is one of indignation. You seem to take it almost personally. The simple fact of the matter is that SIMS.net is not perfect, Capita and their support system is not perfect. People at Capita sometimes send out mixed messages, or say the wrong thing. This then causes strife on the ground in schools. Throw in LEA SIMS support teams and you enter a whole 'Chinese whispers' world of pain. Whilst you have contacts that not everyone has, and you've had an excellent response from the SupportNet site, others don't and haven't. (I'd be one of them with regards to supportnet, I've asked a few questions on there in the past with only 1 or 2 responses across them all, some of them simply being ignored). The method of change requests used by Capita is much like the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy 'plans on display in a locked cabinet in a room in a basement' method... Most users know nothing about the site. Searching CR's is near impossible etc... So, people get upset, that's understandable. You don't know the exact situation they're in, so why get all flustered about it? It just gets you in trouble. This explains the mods position very well. We don't want you to go away, you are very useful and you are right, your input has meant that there have been far fewer SIMS issues of late, which is great. We would just like a little give and take - as localzuk says, other people do NOT have your contacts and have not had the response from the various agencies re SIMS that I'm sure you would have liked them to have, and so are perhaps a little more upset and irrational than they would normally be. 2
Sivadam Posted December 9, 2009 Author Posted December 9, 2009 (edited) Sivadam - the problem as I see it is this - you seem to hold the position that SIMS.net and Capita can do no wrong. That is the way your posts come across and your attitude when someone challenges that is one of indignation. You seem to take it almost personally. The simple fact of the matter is that SIMS.net is not perfect, Capita and their support system is not perfect. People at Capita sometimes send out mixed messages, or say the wrong thing. This then causes strife on the ground in schools. Throw in LEA SIMS support teams and you enter a whole 'Chinese whispers' world of pain. Whilst you have contacts that not everyone has, and you've had an excellent response from the SupportNet site, others don't and haven't. (I'd be one of them with regards to supportnet, I've asked a few questions on there in the past with only 1 or 2 responses across them all, some of them simply being ignored). The method of change requests used by Capita is much like the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy 'plans on display in a locked cabinet in a room in a basement' method... Most users know nothing about the site. Searching CR's is near impossible etc... So, people get upset, that's understandable. You don't know the exact situation they're in, so why get all flustered about it? It just gets you in trouble. This explains the mods position very well. We don't want you to go away, you are very useful and you are right, your input has meant that there have been far fewer SIMS issues of late, which is great. We would just like a little give and take - as localzuk says, other people do NOT have your contacts and have not had the response from the various agencies re SIMS that I'm sure you would have liked them to have, and so are perhaps a little more upset and irrational than they would normally be. I thank you for those very kind words. I am glad I am making a difference. I would assume that this has been because of the way I have approached this. If others are now thinking twice before they post 'issues' then this has all been well worth it! I agree with much of what you say - but I would also like to point out that Capita make requests every year, via SupportNet, for Users to attend their Software Consultation meetings when CRs are discussed. I would have thought that those Users with particular issues/concerns would have been the first to volunteer. There are obviously limits to the numbers that can attend these meetings but this is the Forum where such issues can be raised! How many contributors here have actually volunteered for a Software Consultation Meeting and been turned down? Relatively few I would suggest! Of course Capita's Support System is not perfect - tell me one that is. Getting so many people to sing exactly the identical words from an identical hymn sheet would be impossible. It is the task of all of us to help each other - and that is exactly what I try to do! And quite successfully I may add! However, I think you have missed the point I was making in the first place - which is why my Posts were 'Moderated'. Others cannot see this now and so are making assumptions on what I have said after I was admonished, and not on what the original issue was! As far as I am concerned this is now finished - unless somebody else personally attacks me. In which case I reserve the right to come back to them - as I keep doing right now! Edited December 9, 2009 by Sivadam 1
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