Straw Poll: How close is the BECTA Technical Competencies framework Poll

[russdev]

Hi

 

Can you take your time to fill in this quick straw poll for us. Just need a general view of how on target the framework is.

 

twtpoll :: IT Support Staff: How close is the BECTA Technical Competencies framework (http://bit.ly/OwOm9) to your job. On a scale of 1 to 10. (via )

 

This is first of many things going to be asking in next few weeks to do with 'workforce', job descriptions and a like.

 

Russ

[RabbieBurns]

Im not really sure what youre asking.

 

I took the BECTA survey, answered as below. But my title was just "IT Assistant" and there was just 2 of us, me and the "IT Manager". I did way more stuff than just an "IT Assistant" as the graph shows.

 

http://www.peninsulafm.com/untitled.png

[silver]

I think it might be fine for techs in senior schools in a more proscribed environment but in a primary/junior/middle you have a huge range of responsibilities in some areas that maybe wouldn't be expected of an IT technician, but on the other hand, there is possibly less expertise in other areas.

My results were all over the place

[bossman]

I don't think you can cover the long list of duties and tasks which schools place upon their IT staff in a couple of job Titles.

 

Again it is the Governments way of de-skilling IT in education so they don't have to pay the going rate for expertise.

 

The position of NM for instance is so far reaching and requires lots more management skills than most other support staff positions as he is dealing with whole school issues not just the ICT suites, e-security, data protection, AUPs, Budgets, DRPs, Criminal damage, Negligence issues, Strategies etc to name but a few.

 

Senior Technician:

needs very good hardware and software skills as well as a good knowledge of everything that is going on around the school, he deals with PR, website, room booking, other junior technicians, servers and clients, outside agencies etc.

 

Junior Tech:

Nowadays needs already to have a good IT knowledge base as well as self discipline and good communication skills etc.

 

I don't think any of these points are covered in detail by BECTA except to pigeon hole people and to keep pay awards down as they do not feel we quite belong in the professional education scheme of things.

 

[russdev]

Problem is that no matter what you like it most la have 3 or 4 job titles and we have to out people into each job title.

 

As for BECTA and money think maybe wrong as that is not there remit that is remit of unions and the school support staff working party.

 

The reality is that we need a framework for job descriptions and the jobs as you going to need a framework that national working party needs to base the job and grades on.

 

All I can say at moment there is reason I am asking this and watch this space over the next few months.

 

Russ

[webman]

I don't mean to be negative towards anyone or anything on a personal level with regards to that; but I do wonder - what is the point in all of this if we're all going to be TUPE'd into private companies anyway who are free to ignore Becta?

 

According to the self-assessment, I'm overall at level D; yet my role is officially that of just 'ICT Technician'. I imagine a lot of us here are in a similar situation - doing quite a lot of work in various areas, but keeping the title, description and pay of a role with a lot less responsibility.

Edited July 15, 2009 by webman

[broc]

I don't mean to be negative towards anyone or anything on a personal level with regards to that; but I do wonder - what is the point in all of this if we're all going to be TUPE'd into private companies anyway who are free to ignore Becta?

 

You don't need to be TUPE'd to ignore BECTA; schools already pick & choose which bits of BECTA advice to follow & what to ignore.

 

e.g. BECTA advice on computer:technician ratios comes to mind

[webman]

You don't need to be TUPE'd to ignore BECTA; schools already pick & choose which bits of BECTA advice to follow & what to ignore.

 

e.g. BECTA advice on computer:technician ratios comes to mind

 

That's exactly right; and something I'm sure I've mentioned on here at least once over the years and many times to colleagues and other professionals in discussions.

 

As Becta only seem to peddle "guidelines", schools can cherry-pick what takes their fancy when it suits them, and selectively ignore the ones they don't like; effectively making it all useless. Your reference about computer to technician ratio is a prime example of ones they like to ignore.

[broc]

I am sure we can all rest assured; the BECTA computer:technician ratio will be ignored by MSPs too, as will BECTAs advice that wireless networks complement wired networks, not replace

[russdev]

Right lets forget trust schools for a minute etc.

 

Your all forgetting two fudemnetal things in next couple of years the single uk pay scale for support staff comes online. The main thing is that if single pay scheme with single set of job descriptions then when get tuped you have a basis for your job. Also remember people coming back in frome the managed service in the future and all the schools who won't be tuped for a while yet.

 

This is time to think bigger picture past BSF almost but also BECTA often in there projects try to get people Like rm and northgate to adopt these standards.

 

Also lets say Support staff Schools Working party adopts the becta framework then heads will have no choice but to use it as it will be law.

 

As said this time to stop thinking on school level and think about the bigger picture.

 

 

Russ

[RabbieBurns]

Right lets forget trust schools for a minute etc.

 

Your all forgetting two fudemnetal things in next couple of years the single uk pay scale for support staff comes online. ...

 

Russ

 

Is that an actual UK pay scale, or an England and Wales thing?

[bossman]

@russdev:

 

Russ really good of you to keep us informed of what BECTA is trying to achieve but I for one do not think that it is in our best interest. As professionals we are disregarded in the educational framework because it is always going to be teacher centric no matter what BECTA or anyone else does.

 

Teachers like to rule the educational roost and they will always deem it their domain and no other professionals need apply cos it upsets them to learn that there are other professionals who are quite adept at doing their role as well as there own.

 

I feel like many on here, that we are classed as a necessary evil within the educational environment because we are technical people and teaching professionals do not understand many of the concepts which go with that role. :)

[webman]

Yes, thanks Russ.

 

If that is the case, then their intentions are honourable; however the cynic in me says it will be of little benefit to us, in real terms, in the long run. As Bossman says, a single scale for us probably won't work (at least not in our favour) because our roles are so varied and unique in comparison to teachers, for example. If the single pay scale doesn't account for this we're all doomed.

[russdev]

You know what I did say uk wide sorry it is England only at moment at Wales and Scotland are controlled by your local parliament when it comes to education (you lot wanted devolution).

 

But key here is like with teachers if England has single term and conditions then there will be political pressure for Wales and Scotland to join it.

 

Right again bigger picture time why do you think things are teacher centric in schools give you a clue (they have a national pay scale) that is only reason that culture has developed. Even teacher’s do things not in their job description but point is by having a national scale you get few other benefits.

 

First is it means there are national terms and conditions. So for example you know when head promises you’re annual reviews for support and it doesn’t happen hopefully it will be law they have to run it with you. We are at start of the journey like teacher unions where few years back.

 

Also annual pay increases are made easier to negotiate for unions in your favour. Again I know that people are dishearten about BSF but when it comes to it that is glitch in the road people need to think bigger than next few years and the long term.

 

But as I said to Tony last night we are use to being criticised for what we do and then thanked two years later for doing it.

 

While this not aimed at anyone on this thread as such. You have a choice you sit back and do nothing and then have no right to moan in the future or you try and take part in the system so at least we have had view voiced and then if we are not listen to then you have right to moan.

 

Taking into account that a framework is needed no matter what as that is way world works (sorry in cloud cuckoo land if you think you can't every other industry has one).

 

How do you make it flexible enough for to be of use but also keep it a framework so that it can be used for political stuff like national term and conditions etc.

 

Russ

[leco]

I for one have been waiting, although not holding my breath, for a National Pay body ever since I started working in a school. Believe me that is a very long time.

 

My comment on the Becta framework: It does give an indication of the breadth and depth of not only the tasks I undertake but also my knowledge of such tasks. Indeed I insisted that my latest job description was based on said framework. Doesn't make a great deal of difference to my pay scale, I am still an ICT Technicican, the word Manage was removed from most of the indicators.

 

ICT related jobs in Primary schools, in my area at least, are very different from those in the Secondary sector. It is a similar case when looking at Support staff in general. A Learning Mentor for example, has very different stress and pressure in Special or Secondary schools than in a "nice" Primary like mine.

 

Thank you for allowing us to make comments, I look forward to the eventual outcomes.

[russdev]

The new body becomes statutory in October as part of the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Bill (quite far reaching bill by the way) then it is a matter of process.

 

The body then (well it has started already) has to look at job descriptions and existing frameworks for different jobs to then come up with a national framework for each type if job (hmm sound familiar)

 

Then fun starts when they have to work out across England what pay scales people are on to try and get a pay scale for each job.

 

Plus then they have to come up with plan to implement all this.

 

All that goes to government who then rubber stamp it and then the real fun starts..

 

Russ

[broc]

If you take a look at the 'single status' or 'job evaluation' exercise that all Local Authorities have been conducting (which should have completed in 2007) then I suspect you will find a substantial number of ICT workers in local government (along with other skilled & professional staff) are already facing real, significant pay cuts. People are in danger of losing their homes because of single status.

 

Bear in mind the single status review was an agreement in 1997 between Central Government, the Local Authorities & the Trade Unions, and the Unions 'thought' they had a gentlemans agreement that nobody would suffer. How naive was that?

 

You may want to ask, why are Central and Local Government so keen on having a national agreement for school support staff now?

 

Do we believe it is an exercise to harmonise pay scales upwards, given the trend with single status? Or does it allow the employers to 'divide & conquer' the workforce, with seperate negotiations for school staff & other employees?

 

I think the evidence is clear; national and local Government have an agenda; reduce the public sector wages bill. The fact that the Local Government Association is Conservative dominated & has been for many years shows which way the wage bill is heading. Look at the pay settlements we have received over the last 5 years; everyone below inflation, local govt workers always at the bottom of the heap compared to other stronger sectors of public servants.

 

ICT staff are in the minority as far as school employees are concerned, and we are like dinosaurs facing extinction thanks to BSF & managed services. BSF & managed services for many will mean de-skilling the workforce & reduce the salary bills in the long term. Of course there will be winners, but I suspect they will be in the minority.

 

Union members will be balloted for their support for the national agreement later this year, if you want your say, you may wish to consider joining.....

Edited July 16, 2009 by broc

[bossman]

@russdev:

 

Hi Russ,

I appreciate sincerely what you and Tony are trying to achieve and yes maybe long term it might benefit a few but short term it will as Broc has said destroy the IT professionals within the schools.

 

When we IT support staff get the recognition we so rightly deserve it will be too little too late I fear as LAs are riding heavily over anyone who they feel might hinder the cost cutting exercise taking place at this very moment we speak.

 

Why are LAs so reluctant to speak to IT staff about BSF, could it be because they are frightened of a mass exodus of IT professionals from the schools?

 

As I have said before this is just the beginning of the governments cost cutting on education and the blade will eventually fall on the teachers who have been on the end of the de-skilling machine for a period of time now, HLTAs and 9mths to get PGCE, 6 if you have a masters degree. when will the axe fall for them do you think with all this learning online being available?

 

There are arguments for and against but I have seen too much of this single status and what it means for ordinary people like ourselves, when an idiot can quote that £250,000 per annum is just chicken feed and people getting £12,000 per month for rent it doesn't take a genius to work out that this country is far from balanced and that the tide is against the many.

 

I may seem cynical but as I have stated I have been on this earth for some time now and have not forgotten what has taken place over the years. :(

[witch]

I feel like many on here, that we are classed as a necessary evil within the educational environment because we are technical people and teaching professionals do not understand many of the concepts which go with that role. :)

 

 

On that note, I just sat in a whole-school assembly and listened to the teachers, TAs and Admin staff being thanked.......

Not me

Never me

 

That network is going down:mad::mad:

[broc]

On that note, I just sat in a whole-school assembly and listened to the teachers, TAs and Admin staff being thanked.......

Not me

Never me

 

That network is going down:mad::mad:

 

You are not alone; all over England (maybe the UK?) many Support Staff will be enduring the same self-congratulatory gatherings that don't give a moments thought for the people that underpin the whole education system by keeping schools clean, operational & safe. For those of use not blessed with 6-7 weeks summer holiday there will be insensitive comments about how great it will be to have such a long break too.

 

At least I will be able to get on with some work without interruption for the next 4 weeks before I go off on my travels.

[apoth0r]

I'm into my 3rd year of working for the actual county itself (in schools) and I had maybe £100 pay rise during my teaching spell of 2 years in a primary school. teaching 17/18 hours per week and using the remainder of my 30 hour contract in trying to fight fires.

Having had enough of it i moved to a secondary school, a nice pay increase but still far below that of a new qualified teacher. Yet I have 6 years of experience in schools?!!?

 

Tis a mockery, and to be honest, will only push me out of the joke that is county payscales.

We could all just become self employed and charge double for the same work, that's what happens though right?

[bossman]

@apoth0r:

 

How often does it happen to our knowledge where a teacher takes early retirement on cost cutting grounds (school cannot afford them) then they bounce back into the school on a 2 or 3 day week for twice the pay just to top up their retirement fund.

 

Or better still retire and then get a golden handshake and move on to the LA as a consultant.

 

I have been in education for over 7 years now and if I had been a teacher and worked as hard as I have done for the school I would have been recognised formally by the school in both status and remuneration.

 

I have known NQTS to be at a school for less than 2 years and move up the status ladder very quickly indeed and also earn more remuneration than professional people with more qualifications, who because they have single status (Support staff) earn at least half as much for longer service and all because the system caters for teachers as the only professionals in the place. :mad:

[russdev]

I would like to make two points.

 

1) Have a single pay scheme will make it harder to costing cutting in some ways. That is not to say government have not got an agenda (everybody has you,me, my brother Jake...)

 

But point is this current situation means that person a might get 0.5% rise and puts them into the £30K would they want a strike.. no as they think they are being paid enough. But person b in another LA might get 0.5% rise and takes them to 12K bracket and they might think strike is worth it. Government know this they know they will not have mass strike due to differences in pay between LAs. When single pay then 0.5 raises means same across country more likely to be mass strikes and government would be more willing to give in for this.

 

2) What about trust schools etc where in effect school can pay what they want so they pay as little as possible. They can do that with teachers at moment but... no teacher is going to work for someone paying less than the national scale. Support staffs don’t have that at the moment arrr well maybe if we had a single pay scheme...

 

Like you bossman I have been around block few times but as said we have few choices in world we do nothing but then we lose the right to complain about later or we at least try something.

 

Right it was obvious but got go ahead to talk about it officially. Over the summer I am rewriting the becta framework and also creating a load of sample job descriptions. So this first in many things coming from me on this subject in the next few weeks..

 

Russ

[broc]

@Russ

 

I wish you success in your BECTA project. I think the framework would benefit from overhauling, however I remain sceptical about how much impact it will have on the future of ICT support staff in education, largely due to the long-term Government BSF goal of outsourcing school ICT to the private sector who will probably disregard BECTA.

 

I would like to pick up on a couple of things you mentioned...

 

Your suggestion that support for industrial action depends upon how well paid the employee is is somewhat misleading.

 

One of the reasons the local government trade unions get trampled on by the employers (compared to Teachers, for example) is because membership is so patchy. Because of this, support for industrial action is always uncertain, but generally better in the north than in the south east. Even in the north, there are large numbers of union members who are reluctant to take action, often because they cannot afford to lose money and are unaware of or too proud to seek support from union hardship funds.

 

Quite honestly I think you are wrong if you think by introducing a national pay bargaining agreement the Government or employers would encourage their employees to take industrial action.

 

I am sure you are right about trust schools; they will use whatever means they can to keep their wages bill down; many state schools already do the same by employing support staff on term-time only contracts, or by recruiting replacement staff on lower payscales taking advantage of the current economic climate and a host of other schemes.

 

Schools will quite happily look at ways of paying support staff less if they can get away with it. That way they have more to pay teachers TLRs or threshold payments

 

However, bear in mind that today, schools already receive advice from the LAs with regard to salary scales for appointing support staff but they are at liberty to pay less if they can get away with it. A national pay agreement may prevent schools from paying less than the going rate, but if the scale is set deliberately low (as has been the case with Single Status) then maybe the going rate will in fact fall, rather than rise?

 

Which brings us back to BSF. As I understand it, those staff who are local government employees at the time the national scales are agreed should have their pay protected as & when they are TUPEd. Prior to the agreement, staff TUPEd will go across (protected) at whatever their scale is at the point of transfer.

 

Now, who will be better off? Staff who transfer before the national agreement, or after? Time will tell ....

Edited July 16, 2009 by broc

[GrumbleDook]

To be honest, my role in this has slightly changed over the last 12 months, partly from stepping out of EG but partly because I have different targets to hit within my job.

 

Looking at what is happening in schools in the county I have to accept that many schools buy in their services and support. The big problem is that schools often take what they are given and so I have to work with schools to understand Service Management. Some of our small, rural schools have paltry budgets anyway and there is no plan for IT ... or if there is one it is at the expense of something else in the school ... but that is the school's choice, not mine or the LAs. Helping them make a decent evaluation about it is important though.

 

For me, the Tech Competencies fit into the purchased support a bit better as schools have something they can look at as a baseline when negotiating with the company or the individual technician / engineer / messiah. Not exact, but something to start the conversation.

 

And yes ... I am thinking a heck of a lot about our primaries here. Secondary schools ... my major issue with the Tech Comp framework is that it completely misses out the educational benefits that IT support teams can bring. As much as what many folk do could be done by someone coming from support in other sectors (eg banking or engineering sectors) there are things that will take time to grasp, if ever. Education is a strange beastie ... and you do have to think differently when providing things for teachers / students / SLT / parents / etc ... some schools are happy for IT support to do this, others don't want you to even consider it ... it is the job of a teacher!

 

The Tech Comp is also missing examples of what people do outside of the raw details. Talking about change management is all well and good but if you don't understand how teachers operate, how classes get the most out particular software compared to others, about skills being used across different subjects, about classroom management ... then you miss an important bit!

 

The other thing people *really* have to remember is that BSF is not affecting everyone. Yes, it is really screwing a considerable number, for many it is having little or no impact. In Northants it is going to affect a handful of schools ... when it is finally here.

 

Finally, if people acknowledge that BSF is a political thing, that individually there is little that can be done by the school (due to no ABCPs being successful or the lack of SLT *wanting* to do anything to support you), that the unions have *still* been remarkedly quiet about it all (Yeah ... cos dealing with single status is really dealing with the big issue comin up .. NOT!), that you *have* to look after number one and get the best job you can when being TUPEd over, then try to consider some of what *could* be done as damage limitation.