Windows 98 on domain: Local login

[AntiThesis]

Hello assembled geekery

 

I've just inherited a lab of old 700mhz machines that are running Win98 and are connected to a domain.

 

The issue is that they're all assigned interesting IPs in the range:

 

192.168.0.1-25

 

Some of which conflict with various servers on our network.

 

This lab has to be brought onto our network but two things prevent this:

 

1) The DC they were connected to is long gone. As in physically removed from the school.

2) I don't know of a way to logon locally so I can change aspects of the machines.

 

I can't logon to the domain because of the DC being gone and there being no local profiles for the domain users.

 

Is there a way to logon locally?

 

I apologise for the rambliness but if anyone has any ideas that would be fantastic

[somabc]

I would not put Windows 98 machines on your network the security risks do not bear thinking about.

 

 

Perhaps they could run Linux or XP instead?

[AntiThesis]

Yah I really don't want to but atm it seems unavoidable.

 

Win98 has to run because of compatibility with programs and even if I can get it working with XP, there are 20 boxes and surprisingly the users want them NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!

 

If I could figure out a way to change the IPs from 98 dos mode I'd do that - at least then I could stick them on their own little network and try figure out something with the local logins.

 

Best solution for me at present would be the equivalent of a local admin account to log on to.

[SYNACK]

Unless they have some additional lock down software on them you should be able to just hit escape at logon and logon with the default profile. There was no real security in Windows 98 without additional software.

 

They aren't really joined to a domain either in a Windows 2000+ sence as they just have a textbox under networking properties > Client for Microsoft networks properties that points it as a domain name to try to log on to.

 

To be honest if you have a 2003 server domain they may not be able to authenticate against it as they will not support the propper security without lowering the security on the domain controllers. Your best be may be to look at upgrading them to 2000 or XP depending on your liscencing agreements or switching them over to something like ubuntu which is more likely to be able to authenticate to the domain and is about a million times more secure and stable.

[AntiThesis]

Yah. Ubuntu would be a nice alternative for the stations but I think that's a try for later. Will try the straight escape key login Luck being what it is it's probably been locked down by the last people so it has to authenticate before logging in.

 

I suppose we shall see Thanks for the assist so far folks

[SYNACK]

If they have used the hack to stop the bypas method you should be able to enable it again by fiddeling with the registry like so:

 

Lock IT Down: Prevent Windows 98 users from bypassing the logon screen

[AntiThesis]

Thanks for that - looks interesting.

 

Of course if I can't logon then I still have the same problem I need to logon to use regedit and need to use regedit to logon

 

*goes off to find a DOS registry editor*

[Michael]

1) The DC they were connected to is long gone. As in physically removed from the school.

2) I don't know of a way to logon locally so I can change aspects of the machines.

 

If the DC is long gone, how have the machines been used at all? Someone must have local logon information somewhere surely?

If not and the machines are all the same, install 2000 or XP on one and re-image the rest. Windows 98 is an OS which has long been unsupported and getting it to work with a 2003 domain will be extremely difficult. You're also extremely limited as to what you can lock down compared to 2000/XP.

[Oops_my_bad]

Sorry if it seems like we're all lecturing you, but are you certain about having to use 98? Do you have an MS agreement? If so those machines may be eligible for a "free" upgrade to XP, assuming you have had all the old licences handed over

 

Just think.. XP would make your life so much easier. And if someone from above is telling you to get them networked, just say you can't because they cant be joined up they're that old..

[powdarrmonkey]

Safe mode is your friend.

[somabc]

Windows 98 is End of Life. MS are not even making security updates for it anymore!

 

Microsoft Security Bulletin MS06-015: Vulnerability in Windows Explorer Could Allow Remote Code Execution (908531)

 

For Example -

 

Remote Code Execution

An attacker who successfully exploited this vulnerability could take complete control of an affected system. An attacker could then install programs; view, change, or delete data; or create new accounts with full user rights.

 

Will Microsoft issue security updates for Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition (SE), and Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition (ME) sometime in the future?

Microsoft has extensively investigated an engineering solution for Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows 98 Second Edition (SE), and Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition (ME). We have found that these architectures will not support a fix for this issue now or in the future.

 

If someone asked me to put Windows 98 on the network, I would refuse. Your job is to protect the integrity of the network. This would be a disaster waiting to happen.

Edited June 2, 2009 by somabc

[jedmondson]

I had a situation in my last job where they wanted to use the machines off the network but still have a networked printer installed. I was going to share a printer and do dhcp off a ubuntu server and do it that way, just never managed to get ubuntu working on the spare machines I had. I think I still had a working DC though, but dont know if it actually worked.

[AntiThesis]

Heheh. I don't think you're all lecturing me

 

I do unfortunately know the cesspool I'd be inheriting with 98 but yeah for now it has to stay as my time frame is "a day" rather than a week. They're additionally complicated in that they have no CD-roms, no stiffy drives, can't boot off network and can't boot off USB. So installing and re-imaging would involve quite a chunk of time as I'd have to overcome those particular problems as well.

 

From what I can gather, people simply haven't been using them since they stopped working. It's only now when people have decided to tell parents and children that they're up for use that it's become a problem. I said I'd try my best to get it working but that it's quite possible we'd end up having to put a new OS on them so they are forewarned should I not be able to log in.

 

Thanks for the help and suggestions Going to try a few of them out - will report back

[skysock]

What you could try if you are absolutely desperate is set up a a temp 2000/2003 server using the same domain name as your 98 box's

 

98 authenticates against these servers but is not part of the active directory.

[mac_shinobi]

Use something like this

 

UBCD for Windows

 

To edit the registry amongst other things

[DAckroyd]

have you thought about running Virtual PC on some of your better computers and installing a stand alone Windows 98 with no network connection and then if anything happens you just restore the backup?

[AntiThesis]

UBCD requires CD drives as do most cloning/ghosting options. They don't have optical drives, stiffy drives and can't boot off USB/network

 

I could go round to all of them and install a drive, boot off it, install/fix then move onto the next but eish!

 

Although, I haven't had a chance to do anything because the silly woman who was driving the whole thing is off sick today and she has the only master key!

[gshaw]

Had to do a double take when I saw Win98... retroness

 

If the machines weren't working can't they just *break* and stay broken If you're short for hardware we got some Athlon 3000 machines going spare you could prob have (once agreed with senior managers here etc).

 

What software are they running that needs 98? If it's DOS based that's really old skool but even then there must be a better solution that'll be easier for you?

[AntiThesis]

Quite a simple solution in the end really.

 

Popped into Dos mode, made a .reg file with:

 

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Network\Logon]

"MustBeValidated"=dword:00000000

 

and imported it with regedit. Popped in with the magical escape key and sorted. Now they're all isolated and in use again. With any luck next term they'll be Edubuntu'd

 

Thanks so much to everyone for the assist!