Trying to find a new DMX controller

[Midotuji]

The lighting in the main hall isn't working and our site team has advised it's the controller that's the problem. 

 

There's a DMX out and in where the old one used to plug into. I'm guessing we only need a controller that does DMX out but I just want to make sure that's correct. If so do you guys have any recommendations??? 

 

 

Also I know that cable looks dodgy but apparently they have done "All of their tests".

 

 

[Andrew_C]

Which end is that?

 

If it were me, I'd take the controller to the "stage" and plug it into the first dimmer/light bypassing all installed cables and see what happens.  

 

  Someone needs to work out what is going on, as the left socket is possibly an input the "lights" but the unplugged lead* should be connected to the plug.  DMX should (in simple systems) be linear, with no T or Y junctions.

 

To even guess as to what sort of controller would be suitable, we're going to need to know a LOT more about what you have, what you stage, and skill level of operators!

 

*Needs fixing!

[Midotuji]

@Andrew_C That end used to plug into the controller.

 

 I was hoping that wasn't the case. The lights are very high up so I'll need to get a cherry picker to test it 😧Yeah they haven't given me a lot of information. I'll see what I can get.

 

Thanks for letting me know

Edited April 28, 2025 by Midotuji

[Chris_Cook]

The cable on the right needs looking at. It might pass signal, but probably not for much longer.

 

Some installs might have a loop through connection to extend it to another location (back of hall, or another operating position). That might need plugging into one of the other 2 sockets as Andrew C says.

 

Some other options might be to borrow a desk + long cable from a local stage lighting company to test it, or get one one of the wireless dmx adaptors to bypass the connection - but then you might need to get up to the rig any way. You can also get DMX over RJ45 adaptors if you have or can get some cat5/6 connection to where it needs to go.

 

Can you post some pictures of your lights, desk and dimmers if you have any?

 

For a replacement desk a Zero88 FLX S24 is probably a good modern option for a school. Not too complex and can also support modern moving + LED lights. Lightshark also looks good, but I've not used one. Both might be overkill if you just need basic spots and floods with no LED, but future proofing is always good. You can get a basic 2-preset desk for not a lot, and that might be enough to see if the signal is getting through. Intelligent lights should respond in some way to a basic desk as long as you are outputting to the right channels.

 

Personally I'd start with that cabling though - if you an work out where they go, get some labels on it - i.e "To/From control point", "To/From Dimmers", "To light Rig" etc. "DMX 1 In/Out" doesn't really say much.

 

Id also recommend starting a google/excel sheet with the make, model, mode and dmx address of all your fittings. You will need that to program any new desk unless you are on a basic dimmer setup.

 

Another possibility is if someone has reset the desk? It might just need re-patching or programming. We can probably talk you through how to check this if we know what the desk is. Some systems can have dmx splitters in them that can also cause issues. Being a daisy chained / bus network, one device or short on the line can bring the whole lot down as well.

[Midotuji]

@Chris_Cook I've attached the setup I was left with. In the past when it hasn't worked I've usually managed to get it back up.

 

My first thought was that it was reset but I can usually get one light working then go from there.

 

The picture of DMX OUT 2 is an example of the other points around the hall. I think I did check these at the time but I'll do another test.

 

It's the SmartFade 2496. It's beaten up but it usually still works.

 

[nwkeene]

A quick look at your lighting fixtures and they all look 'analog' and are supplied from dimmers. There don't appear to be any LED lights up there, only profile and fresnel lanterns and some parcans.

As others have said, you need to bypass all the 'internal' cabling and test the desk plugged directly into the 1st dimmer pack. DMX works by being daisy chained from one thing to the next. In your case, i suspect its just the dimmer packs are daisy chained together and then a long lead goes to where your wall points are.

If it all works when plugged directly into the dimmers, then its the internal cabling at fault. If it doesn't work, then you need to try to borrow a simple dmx tester or small 6 channel desk to see if that makes the lights come on. If that works, your desk is the issue. Some dimmers have test buttons where you can turn on the lights directly from the dimmers.

hope that helps.

[nwkeene]

i'm not sure you're aware or not and i apologise if you are...

 

DMX cabling is usually 3 core, but the plugs are 5 pin XLR... (but you can get DMX in 3 pin XLR, usually on the cheaper DMX lanterns etc.)

Pin 1 is earth, pins 2 and 3 are the 'data' lines.

 

my 2p

[Andrew_C]

Whereabouts are you?  There may be someone local that could lend you a desk for a bit of fault-finding.

[Midotuji]

1 hour ago, nwkeene said:

A quick look at your lighting fixtures and they all look 'analog' and are supplied from dimmers. There don't appear to be any LED lights up there, only profile and fresnel lanterns and some parcans.

As others have said, you need to bypass all the 'internal' cabling and test the desk plugged directly into the 1st dimmer pack. DMX works by being daisy chained from one thing to the next. In your case, i suspect its just the dimmer packs are daisy chained together and then a long lead goes to where your wall points are.

If it all works when plugged directly into the dimmers, then its the internal cabling at fault. If it doesn't work, then you need to try to borrow a simple dmx tester or small 6 channel desk to see if that makes the lights come on. If that works, your desk is the issue. Some dimmers have test buttons where you can turn on the lights directly from the dimmers.

hope that helps.

It's a PFI school so getting up there to bypass it is going to be a pain!!!

 

I was thinking of getting a cheap one just to test the lights but thought it would be best to ask on here first incase I am missing anything obvious!

[Midotuji]

1 hour ago, Andrew_C said:

Whereabouts are you?  There may be someone local that could lend you a desk for a bit of fault-finding.

We're based on Canvey. I might ask if the school near us has a desk we can test with

[Midotuji]

1 hour ago, nwkeene said:

i'm not sure you're aware or not and i apologise if you are...

 

DMX cabling is usually 3 core, but the plugs are 5 pin XLR... (but you can get DMX in 3 pin XLR, usually on the cheaper DMX lanterns etc.)

Pin 1 is earth, pins 2 and 3 are the 'data' lines.

 

my 2p

Ah yes I did notice that when looking at new desks. 

 

This really isn't my area so I would say i'm not aware of most things your are haha.

[PotNoodleTech]

TBH the DMX stuff is a bit of a nightmare - I call in a local Stage Lighting company if theres a problem here as it's literally 30 years old and the wiring is a bit of a mess.

[Midotuji]

1 hour ago, PotNoodleTech said:

TBH the DMX stuff is a bit of a nightmare - I call in a local Stage Lighting company if theres a problem here as it's literally 30 years old and the wiring is a bit of a mess.

Yeah I'm just trying to spend the least amount of money possible.. If it comes to it I will.

[nwkeene]

1 hour ago, Midotuji said:

It's a PFI school so getting up there to bypass it is going to be a pain!!!

 

I was thinking of getting a cheap one just to test the lights but thought it would be best to ask on here first incase I am missing anything obvious!

 

I doubt the dimmers are up in the ceiling though... They're usually in a 'cupboard somewhere near the stage. The dimmers then feed the variable mains voltage up to the lights on the bars. If you can find the dimmer room / cupboard, then plugging the desk into them directly is going to be your first step I think.

[Midotuji]

34 minutes ago, nwkeene said:

 

I doubt the dimmers are up in the ceiling though... They're usually in a 'cupboard somewhere near the stage. The dimmers then feed the variable mains voltage up to the lights on the bars. If you can find the dimmer room / cupboard, then plugging the desk into them directly is going to be your first step I think.

Ohh sorry I see what you mean now. I'll have a look now!

[Midotuji]

55 minutes ago, nwkeene said:

 

I doubt the dimmers are up in the ceiling though... They're usually in a 'cupboard somewhere near the stage. The dimmers then feed the variable mains voltage up to the lights on the bars. If you can find the dimmer room / cupboard, then plugging the desk into them directly is going to be your first step I think.

I've had a look around and can't find one. I've noticed these at the top of each row though. There is an electric cupboard at the stage but I've been told the dimmer isn't in there.

 

Trying to see what company set this up in the first place / see if there's any documentation.

[3s-gtech]

Those are just DMX patch panels. You can plug a controller in there, or an addressable fixture.

 

There must be a set of dimmer packs. Any indications of 'Stage Lighting' in the dis board?

[Andrew_C]

The DMX outlets on the bars are for "intelligent" lanterns (moving) or LED fixtures.  None of the lanterns in your photo of the hall are this type, so there must be dimmers somewhere...

[SamanthaD]

Dimmers can be just very inocuous boxes on the wall if they're hardwired, which this install appears to be, for a school I'd have a guess at Zero 88 Chili dimmers.

 

The photos you've posted above are not dimmers, they are hard power (non dimmed) for intelligent lighting, along with the DMX outlets to go with it. The thick cable going into the grey boxes on the bar are where the power for the dimmed channels for your lights are connected to the internal wiring for the bar - hence why they're called IWB's (Internally wired bars).

 

If you want a cheap and easy way of proving the system, grab yourself a Chamsys basic DMX dongle for £15. You'll also need a 3 pin to 5 pin converter which doesn't cost much. Chamsys is a lighting control manufacturer who have a PC software version available for free download, and offers a simple "simple generic console" option so you don't really need to learn the whole program to test the rig, you just need the dongle to connect to your lights.

 

Edit to add - if they are hardwired dimmers then it is unlikely there will be a 5 pin connection to connect to locally, however I suspect there will be a DMX distribution unit or 2 because of the amount of outlets around the space. However that's likely to have phoenix connectors, not XLR's, if it's install grade, so again not possible to connect to locally.

 

Edited April 29, 2025 by SamanthaD

[Midotuji]

12 minutes ago, 3s-gtech said:

Those are just DMX patch panels. You can plug a controller in there, or an addressable fixture.

 

There must be a set of dimmer packs. Any indications of 'Stage Lighting' in the dis board?

Ah I thought so. I really can't find one but I'll have a proper look later. 

[Midotuji]

9 minutes ago, Andrew_C said:

The DMX outlets on the bars are for "intelligent" lanterns (moving) or LED fixtures.  None of the lanterns in your photo of the hall are this type, so there must be dimmers somewhere...

If only I could find it!!!!

[Midotuji]

11 minutes ago, SamanthaD said:

Dimmers can be just very inocuous boxes on the wall if they're hardwired, which this install appears to be, for a school I'd have a guess at Zero 88 Chili dimmers.

 

The photos you've posted above are not dimmers, they are hard power (non dimmed) for intelligent lighting, along with the DMX outlets to go with it. The thick cable going into the grey boxes on the bar are where the power for the dimmed channels for your lights are connected to the internal wiring for the bar - hence why they're called IWB's (Internally wired bars).

 

If you want a cheap and easy way of proving the system, grab yourself a Chamsys basic DMX dongle for £15. You'll also need a 3 pin to 5 pin converter which doesn't cost much. Chamsys is a lighting control manufacturer who have a PC software version available for free download, and offers a simple "simple generic console" option so you don't really need to learn the whole program to test the rig, you just need the dongle to connect to your lights.

 

Edit to add - if they are hardwired dimmers then it is unlikely there will be a 5 pin connection to connect to locally, however I suspect there will be a DMX distribution unit or 2 because of the amount of outlets around the space. However that's likely to have phoenix connectors, not XLR's, if it's install grade, so again not possible to connect to locally.

 

Do I need to specifically buy the Chamsys basic DMX dongle or can I just buy any adapter? Say this for example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Interface-Controller-Lighting-Freestyler-Transparent-USB-Shell/dp/B07W92TW99/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lQ7HQDY1H5Qr47TOl2ud1JVCkeE-KDYXrDkxF0EUMJGsovAq4Hzh1HHHiAYbWV0r.tV68WKqedtJLWE9BHtGV_sx_mjnSvyjUC8OjO1oRMcU&dib_tag=se&keywords=Chamsys%2Bbasic%2BDMX%2Bdongle&qid=1745933027&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

 

That's a good idea though. 

[SamanthaD]

4 hours ago, nwkeene said:

i'm not sure you're aware or not and i apologise if you are...

 

DMX cabling is usually 3 core, but the plugs are 5 pin XLR... (but you can get DMX in 3 pin XLR, usually on the cheaper DMX lanterns etc.)

Pin 1 is earth, pins 2 and 3 are the 'data' lines.

 

my 2p

5 pin DMX should be 5 core. Pins 2 and 3 carry data for Universe 1, pins 4 and 5 carry data for Universe 2. However a lot of cheap knock off cables are not "to spec". 3 pin has become more popular as it's cheaper.

 

And don't get me started on using mic cable for DMX......!

[SamanthaD]

Just now, Midotuji said:

Do I need to specifically buy the Chamsys basic DMX dongle or can I just buy any adapter? Say this for example: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Interface-Controller-Lighting-Freestyler-Transparent-USB-Shell/dp/B07W92TW99/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lQ7HQDY1H5Qr47TOl2ud1JVCkeE-KDYXrDkxF0EUMJGsovAq4Hzh1HHHiAYbWV0r.tV68WKqedtJLWE9BHtGV_sx_mjnSvyjUC8OjO1oRMcU&dib_tag=se&keywords=Chamsys%2Bbasic%2BDMX%2Bdongle&qid=1745933027&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

 

That's a good idea though. 

For Chamsys you need the Chamsys dongle. For £15 you're getting the same functionality of a console costing thousands, albeit a single universe and limited to 4 hours. Plenty for testing though!

 

Also - where are you? Someone here might be local to you and be able to pop over and help?

[Midotuji]

Just now, SamanthaD said:

For Chamsys you need the Chamsys dongle. For £15 you're getting the same functionality of a console costing thousands, albeit a single universe and limited to 4 hours. Plenty for testing though!

 

Also - where are you? Someone here might be local to you and be able to pop over and help?

Worth buying then!!!

We're based on Canvey Island in essex.