Genealogy: Finding long lost relatives

[Ditto]

Anyone with genealogy insight? My mum is trying to track down what she believes is a last surviving cousin. We have found no evidence of death, we know full name and date of birth and think we know approximate location. We are trying to find a home address. We thought we were on to something by considering visiting local council office and reviewing poll records, but it appears you need to know a street name and then have to have someone present when you view - doesn't feel particularly 'public' record by oh well. Any suggestions, ideally that don't need subscriptions of fees paying.

[elsiegee40]

To be honest you may do better by finding the facebook group(s) covering the area and asking if anyone knows this person.

 

Another option is the BT telephone directory as this person may still have a landline.

[Ditto]

To be honest you may do better by finding the facebook group(s) covering the area and asking if anyone knows this person.

 

Another option is the BT telephone directory as this person may still have a landline.

 

Telephone directory is a great shout! Didn't think of that but it's definitely worth a bash. FB, not so sure, there area is Sutton, so high population - not sure if that's a good thing or more needle in a haystack. We have been advised that Sally Army can help, but they appear to charge.

[Ketlane]

Companies House - you can search by company officers.

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/

LinkedIn; straightforward search on Facebook occasionally turns up trumps

192.com

[Ditto]

We believe the cousin is still alive based on searches to date. 192 suggests a match. It then says register to get the details. On registration, it then says cough up the cash. It didn't indicate a cost before hand - this tactic really annoys me. I'll find another way!

[Ditto]

Oh, FB is unlikely to work on a direct match. The cousin would be 91 and unlikely to be a FB user. Regardless I did a FB search but nothing looked promising. Edited November 1, 2024 by Ditto

[elsiegee40]

Oh, FB is unlikely to work on a direct match. The cousin would be 91 and unlikely to be a FB user. Regardless I did a FB search but nothing looked promising.

 

I wasn’t thinking that your relative had a facebook account. But someone in the area who is on Facebook one may be a friend or neighbour of the person you seek.

[Ditto]

Correction to an earlier post - it's Surbiton, not Sutton! Oh, and just turned 89, not 91.

 

BT Phonebook download drew a blank, but 192.com indicated a match. In fact, it highlights electoral roll records for 2002 and 2012 suggesting a local move (one number difference on the outward postcode). I haven't found an online source, but it's a 20-minute train journey, so a visit to the library or other record-keeping office is on the agenda. The postcode area also shows up just two care homes, which is a possible location, so a couple of calls will be made. Whether we bump into GDPR blockage remains to be seen!

[Ditto]

I thought it worth adding an update. Ultimately a slightly sad outcome, but an experience of learning. I took my mum to Guildhall in Kingston as that was where electoral registers were held. 192.com indicate there were records of the long lost cousin being registered there. Firstly, I could not praise the staff their highly enough, they were friendly, helpful and genuinely interested. We had date range and ploughed through registers for a couple of hours to no avail. Speaking to the staff, I explained the situation and said I believe we could search he full ancestry.co.uk registers only with a subscription. They explained they have full access with a 'librarian' version of the same. They brought a laptop and let us browse - I could see from the URL it was a 'librarian' version. This revealed a match and a more accurate date range for electoral registers. We managed to track this down to a specific paper record and gleaned a full address - and indeed from an older register a previous address. Tip #1 - many libraries offer the ancestry site access, so not always necessary to pay a monthly fee.

 

However, the searches still showed no indication of a death being registered. As we were wrapping up, we decided to pop into the death, births, registry etc. office which was in the same circular building around about 15 degrees away! Speaking to a lady at reception, but sitting a few feet away, I asked if they held recent death registrations. The lady was initially reserved but asked for details of the long lost family member. We had full name, date of birth and I suspect essentially, the newly discovered last address. The reserved demeanour changed and there was a lot of typing on the keyboard - it was clear to both of us that we were on to something. The lady stood up and came to the front desk and said, "Yes, there is a register of death". It turns out this occurred 12 years earlier. She explained she could not give too many details, but we got the date of death. She explained that we could purchase a death certificate and could proceed from there. We will do that, and inform closer next of kin. My subsequent searches indicate there was no will and most likely no probate. The address indicates the cousin was living in a very small room in a flat (it reminded of recent student digs I'd seen for my son heading for Uni next year). We know the cousin didn't stay in touch with family after his own fathers death, and it appears to be entirely his life choice, but it feels sad he passed with no family around and we have no idea at this point as to cause of death and what burial/cremation arrangements took place - but we will find out. My mum seemed fine, but she had pointed previously that he was probably, apart from her, that last of that generation.

 

So, whilst we mostly have a degree of closure, there's a little more to be learnt, but the path forward is clear.

 

One the learnings for me, is that whilst death records are 'public records', it doesn't appear to me to be a straight forward route to access. I've tried many routes, with one left that is API driven, which I explore just because I'm a technical person! It does irritate me that some public records are only easily accessible on payment of fees. I detest the monetisation of public records, but equally acknowledge the work and expense that has gone in to digitisation of records to enable searches. But records from the last 20 years - surely they should be digitised at source.

 

So all-in-all, a really interesting exercise and not overly emotional - my mum probably hadn't seen the cousin for maybe up to 40 or more years. My take-away - if you have long unseen family, even if 30 or more years - reach out, they may still be alive. They might not be interested in contact, but give them a chance. And finally, cherish those around you, especially elderly parents or parent, we all are running a clock down - we just don't know how long for.

[Ketlane]

Once you know in which local authority the death occurred, it's worth contacting their bereavement services (different titles in different councils, of course) - they can be very helpful indeed. If indeed there was no-one to arrange burial or cremation, the local authority will have stepped in. We attended a local-authority-managed burial last week - which was dignified and respectful, one member of the bereavement team there along with the undertakers.

[Ditto]

Once you know in which local authority the death occurred, it's worth contacting their bereavement services (different titles in different councils, of course) - they can be very helpful indeed. If indeed there was no-one to arrange burial or cremation, the local authority will have stepped in. We attended a local-authority-managed burial last week - which was dignified and respectful, one member of the bereavement team there along with the undertakers.

Yes, the lady at the office recommended that. We were advised to make contact once we had a death certificate - £12.50 to purchase. I'd still like to know if we should be able to see the certificate without having to buy a copy, as it's a public record. Regardless, we will buy one and probably reach out to the bereavement team in due course.

[supportman]

The reason for the fee is generally to stop people collecting up all the records easily. Its surprisingly effective!

 

We did something similar recently and found a friends biological dad who lived in America.

 

Its amazing how quickly we could find a name, address, siblings, job and social media profiles from just a first name and nationality.

[Ditto]

Further update, probably the last.

 

Armed with the death certificate, we approached the local gov bereavement team, to see if we can piece together the final hours/days/months and maybe years of the relatives life. Frankly they were not a lot of use, saying they know no more than what's on the death certificate. They could however provide us with the name of the crematorium where a small service took place, that a council appointed person was present but no one else as far as we know.

 

I called the crematorium but no answer initially. I decided then to contact the hospital where the realtive died. The death certificate gave an employee name who registered the death. On speaking to, what I presume was a receptionist, I was cut off mid sentence and transferred to another team. That was downright disrespectful and rude. On speaking to the next team member, it got no better. Clearly disinterested, said the named person on the death certificate (NHS employee) and they could not divulge any information, which they might not have but clearly were not going to make any effort to find out. They quoted 'confidentiality reasons' for not being able comment further. FFS, whose confidentiality is being breached! Sure, id checking would be a reasonable request, but clearly there was no way forward with them, bar complaints route, which is not something I have any appetite for.

 

Rang the crematorium again and then got to speak to a member of staff - the contrast compared with local GOV and NHS staff could not be more stark. They couldn't tell us much more either, but key, they were able to tell us the name of the undertakers that dealt with the cremation and said it was possible they held the ashes. They were as helpful as possible and took time to listen. I don't thing their are any laws around retention of ashes, but I do know the National Association of Funeral Directors published guidelines in 2012 proposing 5 years as a minimum. It's 12 years since death in this this case, so we don't know yet.

 

A call to the undertakers brought the most helpful and respectful response. They took details, cross checked and said they think they have the ashes but will check and call back. They did within the hour. They confirmed they had the ashes and they could be collected. They gave further insight based on local knowledge. We learnt that the deceased's last address was almost certainly an assisted living location and said the relative probably had someone check in on his welfare. So as we suspected, the relative almost certainly died alone and the local authority dealt with matters from there. We don't really have any more details, as to whether he had any possessions, pension income, debt, friends, who or when his flat was cleared - nothing really. What I find really surprising is the enormous difficulty in trying to get this information. I would have though the local authority would have some of that somewhere. We are 100% certain there was no wealth, but speculatively, if here were a few grand of cash in the flat, or a bank account with savings, how do we know where that went! It's likely any money would have been absorbed by the local authority with good cause, for looking after his welfare, but there seems to be little accountability.

 

We have been advised by the undertakers to contact a named member of the council team and copy them in. They said they would help with understanding the end story of the relatives life as much as hey could and if they could get info out of the hospital they would.

 

We will update some other (closer?) relatives of what we have learnt and see if they wish to collect the ashes. Given multiple years of estrangement, who knows? It's possible they could be scattered at his parents grave or other close deceased relative.

 

Overall, an interesting intro to genealogy, some ups and downs along the way, a tapestry of experiences with various services, mostly good, but some just plain rude. I think we are about as far as we can go and in some ways brought it to closure as far as my mum is concerned.

 

One detail I might follow up on - we know the relative was a listed as previously a publican. I know you need to be registered as a publican, so maybe there are some records that give insight to years before retirement. Perhaps finding the pub he ran would lead to a visit and a commemorative pint!

[akidosaint]

Interesting read. This reminded me of a program on BBC back in the day Heir Hunters where a department within central government (assuming treasury) would hold onto the money of the deceased if they had no will then release details to companies who would track down the next of kin. Glad your Mum got closure.

[john]

Interesting read. This reminded me of a program on BBC back in the day Heir Hunters where a department within central government (assuming treasury) would hold onto the money of the deceased if they had no will then release details to companies who would track down the next of kin. Glad your Mum got closure.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/bona-vacantia Is the department and anyone can do it, the companies such as those on that BBC show spot the high potential situations, in this one it sounds like it would likely be a very low value estate so they probably would have no interest but you could give it a look the lists are public so you may find them on that list.

[Ditto]

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/bona-vacantia Is the department and anyone can do it, the companies such as those on that BBC show spot the high potential situations, in this one it sounds like it would likely be a very low value estate so they probably would have no interest but you could give it a look the lists are public so you may find them on that list.

Funnily enough I checked that list on Friday - as expected definitely not on that list. Also, later that day, I got a phone call from the hospital where the relative died. I must have left a message before getting an answer on the second occasion. This conversation was much better than the first. Once I explained the picture, the member of the team said they can forward a form to complete. Once received, it's basically a guided subject access request on the deceased. The criteria for being able to make the request would normally be the executor of the estate, but we doubt there is one of those. But it does also include 'next of kin'. My mum isn't that, one step from, as we believe the niece/nephews are. We have contact details so will pass on the info. By chance, I played badminton the same evening who was a lead medical examiner and has deep experience in death certification scrutiny. It was a role developed at a local NHS trust as a result of some of the outcomes of the Shipman enquiry. Due to the badminton, we didn't really get a decent chat, but she said it is very difficult to get details. In truth, we don't really have an interest in the medical records. Family knowledge and death certificate tells us what we wanted to know and were not surprised to read. What would be more of interest is was he taken care of and had any friends in his last few years, did he want to leave any personal items to his estranged family. We suspect, but would lead to clarity if that could be confirmed. I'd expect there to be a social services file somewhere, but trying to complete that part of the life story looks a long way off. What does annoy me those is authorities lazily, and I suspect invalidly, hiding behind GDPR. A chat I had with one individual, I suggested GDPR doesn't apply to the deceased as it does to the living. It was argued no that's not true, but I think they were confusing GDPR with right to ask for identification and authentication from us.