Simple cheap cctv here

[Alexpduk]

Hi there,

 

Posting more on behalf of my wife who is SBM in a small primary school.

 

The school has a remote classroom where a teacher may be working with 1 or more children. They want have some form of cctv in the room to provide protection for the teacher . The first thoughts were just to buy a Ring indoor camera, but looking here (which agrees with my own thoughts) this doesn’t seem to be a good idea.

 

Any thoughts for a simple, cheap solution. There is no on site IT skills so anything beyond plug and play would require payment to their IT supplier, so avoiding this would be good too!

 

Thoughts?

[jmak]

Welcome [emoji846]

 

If the school already has CCTV elsewhere, this could be very straightforward. If not, it is likely to be quite an involved process, although most of it isn't actually IT.

 

You will need to consider lots of policy areas: data protection, privacy policy, child protection to start with. Any decision to install a CCTV system will need to have a policy framework which is transparent about who can view the images under what circumstances, how the recordings are stored, what the purpose of the system is. If you don't do that, you are likely to get challenges from parents, pupils, staff or all three.

 

From an IT point of view, the CCTV should be on a segregated part of the network so that it's only accessible by people and devices that are authorised. Seeing that up properly will realistically require the involvement of their IT support if there's no one in the school with the idiot network security skills.

 

Once all of that is covered, there's a wide range of fairly cheap cameras that would be suitable.

[Alexpduk]

@jmak, thank you for your response.

 

At the moment there is no cctv at all, hence why a plug and play similar to Ring makes sense, as does cloud based removing the cost of the NVR.

 

The school is in deficit so zero funds available!

 

Re policies etc, that’s what she is hot at!

[3s-gtech]

No existing CCTV - so they’ll need a policy, a DPIA and each camera should be justified and risk assessed.

 

A small, self-contained unit could work, where the cameras plug back into the NVR rather than the network (not some shonky old coax thing though!). The NVR needs to be located somewhere secure, and accessed through a secure interface.

 

A small business-centric device will work. Cloud storage, especially cheap cloud storage, will not pass a decent DPIA.

[Koldov]

A camera attached to a non-networked NVR seems a little overkill for one room (unless you can get something very cheap and cheerful - which would probably bring its own problems), might as well have a spare laptop, tablet, iPod, or mini PC with a webcam.

 

A small, self-contained unit could work.

 

As the school has no site-wide CCTV and obviously for some reason has never felt the need to have any installed... I presume this is only to be for safeguarding of the child and some sort of protection for the staff member (and not to view in real-time or keep the area monitored 24/7 for break ins etc.) would some sort of consumer grade stand-alone device work that only records to a memory card and mounted out of reach (I'm thinking 'spy cam' style but obviously not an actual 'spy cam')....

 

Obviously, this has the downside that it is much easier to 'tamper' with, or 'forget' to turn on but that's got to be part of the process of weighing up the pros and cons.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Koldov

[Alexpduk]

Thank you. Yes it is safeguarding so needs to be slightly more robust than a “spy cam” type with a card in it that could be removed easily.

 

I had looked at Amazon Blink with a Sync 2 module and memory card in a locked cupboard in the main building. The thing with this is then setting up a private network with WiFi between the 2 components. No cloud storage involved and with private network it can be secured.

 

Might be an option.

[PotNoodleTech]

I don't suppose you happen to have a Synology NAS box in that school? If you do you can add one CCTV camera for free - and the recording playback software is very good.

[Koldov]

This?

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/blink-sync-module-2/dp/B08BJ9ZCZC

 

Seems to only support motion 'clips'...?

 

"Record and store motion clips when you insert a USB flash drive (up to 256 GB – sold separately) into the Blink Sync Module 2. Does not support live view recording."

[STK91]

UniFi Protect is a pretty straight forward system and doesn't cost a great deal.

[Aprice]

I'd probably suggest something like a Hikvision turret camera with a MicroSD card in.

 

The card slot is generally covered by a metal plate with Torx screws if I'm not mistaken, cover it with an Asset tag and record the tag number as an added deterrent against tampering / taking the card.

 

I'd avoid domestic solutions like Ring for this.

[Garacesh]

UniFi Protect is a pretty straight forward system and doesn't cost a great deal.

 

I'm annoyed that UniFi have made it so you must have a Protect appliance now, you used to be able to wang it into several free NVR softwares (like XProtect Essential+ which gives you 1 site/8 cameras for free), but I do have to be reasonable and say it does 'just work'. Needs someone with a bit of technical know-how to install, but once it's in it should essentially just run itself.

[Koldov]

UniFi Protect is a pretty straight forward system and doesn't cost a great deal.

 

Oooof! Compared to what? I thought the OP said 'no budget'?!

 

But I do agree I just don't think a zero funds/non IT supported version of what you want exists... at least not one that is 'fit for purpose'...

 

Even at the very cheapest end, something like an Hikvision (I know that's a dirty word, but you don't have to network it) 2 camera system with DVR/NVR is going to be £250 (ish).

 

You don't 'need' to be an IT tech or CCTV installer to fit it (especially if you take the decision not to network it), and although you'll have to work out positioning of cameras/power (or POE)/DVR/NVR (I'd suggest a lockable wall unit - key held by SENCO), at the end of the day you're going to get what you pay for...

 

I know it's tempting to try and make the cheapest possible thing work, but I've been in those small schools with consumer grade no-name hubs daisy chained around offices and home Wi-fi repeaters hidden in the ceiling tiles. It all ends up being more trouble than it's worth.

 

I also know what it's like to try and get those schools to actually pay for the decent version of those things... Sometimes you have to be straight with them and make them realise what they are trying to do requires an investment. If they are unwilling to do so, they have to understand that it just can't be done on a shoe-string and they will have to rethink their strategy.

 

it is safeguarding so needs to be slightly more robust than a “spy cam” type with a card in it that could be removed easily.

 

If it's taking troublesome/disruptive/sensitive/upset children off to a quiet room for one-on-one intervention and if they require that room to have CCTV for the safeguarding of all concerned, they will have to pay for a robust solution that meets the criteria and unfortunately you'll have to tell them a consumer grade device like a 'Ring' doorbell/Spy Cam (or equivalent) isn't going to cut it I'm afraid.

[gszech]

UniFi Protect is a pretty straight forward system and doesn't cost a great deal.

 

+1 for this suggestion. Simple to use and It can be extended in the future if needed.

[Oaktech]

If you have no onsite IT & you already have Unifi on site, then a cloud key seems like a good idea in the first place to simplify management and deal with updates before we even talk about the camera. Unifi Protect is a pretty seamless add on - total budget to implement: less than £400?

[Andrew_C]

The cost of running cables to a remote classroom could easily swamp any cost in equipment to go on the ends...

[robintech]

No existing CCTV - so they’ll need a policy, a DPIA and each camera should be justified and risk assessed.

A small, self-contained unit could work, where the cameras plug back into the NVR rather than the network (not some shonky old coax thing though!). The NVR needs to be located somewhere secure, and accessed through a secure interface.

A small business-centric device will work. Cloud storage, especially cheap cloud storage, will not pass a decent DPIA.

 

That's what I would do as well

Hikvision 4 channel NVR is about £150 and it can power a

Wide angle corner POE camera which is £50

£50 for a 1TB drive (*edit cheaper ones don't do raid or multiple internal drives*)

 

Put the NVR in a metal box/secure location inside the room and run the ethernet up the wall to the camera.

Edited November 24, 2023 by ittech2342323

[jmak]

I've had another think as well (dangerous, especially on a Friday)

 

If the school has no IT support and doesn't have a VLAN setup for CCTV, I'd suggest a cheap camera linked back to a standalone PC or Raspberry Pi in a locked cupboard running something like Zoneminder. Camera could be run off a PoE injector.

 

Simplifies implementation, security and policies. Only accessed in the case of an incident, no risk of anyone accessing it unless they're in the room, no risk of camera or PC being compromised. You could have a USB backup hard drive for resilience.

 

I know that's a bit of a home grade rather than a professional system, but it might meet the brief here.