Fuel crisis over

[PEO]

And the driver walked away without a scratch. Hmm he really earned his pay cheque that day

 

hancock

[localzuk]

They work a 50+ hour week driving a bomb - extremely dangerous - extremely exhausting and boring as hell - and think of all the aresole on the motorways! - I think they deserve every penny - with out hem we have no fuel and whilst that might mean I cant get to work - it also means that the hospitals cant have fuel for vital things, the emergency services could not reach us etc etc.....

 

50+ hour week? They aren't required to do that. The legal limit is 50. And driving an HGV, they have limits on how long they can drive anyway.

 

I still don't think they deserve £42k. Maybe £35k. No way, no how.

[TechMonkey]

Many many people do monotonous jobs, shift work etc... They certainly don't get £42k or 14% pay rises.

 

Sorry, that was my point but really badly put.

 

 

As it happens, it looks like they've got a strong union (unlike public sector unions)

 

thats the first thing my boss and I said. Stuff UNISON lets go join their union.

 

But you are right if it was anyother commodity then no one would have really cared. But that then highlights the failing in government that they have no contingency plan or are unwilling/hessitant to put it into action in the event of a problem.

 

This with a number of other factors make it look like there could be interesting times ahead.

[cookie_monster]

Remember the print unions of fleet street in the '80s?

 

Yeh they were untouchable, was it the Times that ended up with hundreds working for them as it was easier to just hire a new one than it was to get rid of a useless one. Then Murdock (maggot) took over and went berserk when he discovered the situation

[somabc]

eh Hello - Shell make £1.3 billion every month so it is certainly affordable to pay them whatever they like, they could be on £100k and Shell would still be have enough money to wallpaper their HQ in €500 notes

http://goldderby.latimes.com/awards_goldderby/images/burns.gif

Edited June 19, 2008 by somabc

[Dos_Box]

Yeh they were untouchable, was it the Times that ended up with hundreds working for them as it was easier to just hire a new one than it was to get rid of a useless one. Then Murdock (maggot) took over and went berserk when he discovered the situation

 

Indeed. Bill Bryson writes about them in one of his books. They got paid different rates dependant on what typeface they laid and in what quantities. Often the rates were huge and disproportionate to the actual job being done. The real trouble started when modern photo-type printing presses were introduced and they didn't need these type of skills anymore. As the printing unions ruled Fleet Street papers simply opened new plants up elsewhere employing the new technologies.

[cookie_monster]

eh Hello - Shell make £1.3 billion every month so it is certainly affordable to pay them whatever they like, they could be on £100k and Shell would still be have enough money to wallpaper their HQ in €500 notes

 

I don't think they're employed by Shell they spun them of ages ago so they could bath in pure profit.

 

 

 

@ DOS_BOX: ahh that might be where i remember it from, 'Notes from a small island' wasn't it?

[Inbir316]

Dangerous? When was the last time someone in their industry was injured (and by injured, I mean serious enough to count as an injury, not a scuffed knee or something) due to the job?

 

faling asleep at the wheel and having a crash?

[sparkeh]

Nothing that I would call dangerous. Certainly not more dangerous than working in a petrol station, where people ignore the signs and smoke, use their mobiles

 

Urban myths. Neither a lit fag or a mobile phone can cause an explosion at a petrol station.

[Inbir316]

Urban myths. Neither a lit fag or a mobile phone can cause an explosion at a petrol station.

 

ive never understood the thing about mobiles maybe its the electrical surge through the mobile signals

[SYNACK]

ive never understood the thing about mobiles maybe its the electrical surge through the mobile signals

 

Sparking of the contacts between the battery and the phone so I've heard.

[sparkeh]

ive never understood the thing about mobiles maybe its the electrical surge through the mobile signals

Sparking of the contacts between the battery and the phone so I've heard.

No its nothing because it can't happen

 

The voltage in a mobile is massively under what would be needed to ignite petrol.

 

Seriously, Google it and see how many experts have rubbished it.

Edited June 19, 2008 by sparkeh

[Dos_Box]

Sparking of the contacts between the battery and the phone so I've heard.

 

You'd get more of a spark from a dodgy earth on the car itself when you touch the door.

[localzuk]

faling asleep at the wheel and having a crash?

 

That's a risk all HGV drivers have, as do coach drivers and others... Nothing special about tanker drivers.

 

Urban myths. Neither a lit fag or a mobile phone can cause an explosion at a petrol station.

 

Actually, either can be a source of ignition. The latter is a very low possibility (the the extent that it isn't worth banning, as someone dropping a quartz rock on another quartz rock in a puddle of petrol is more likely), the lit fag is much more likely. The temperature range of a lit cigarette is between 400 and 700 degrees centigrade. (depending on whether the person is drawing in at the time or not). The ignition point of liquid petrol is around 260 - 480 degrees C (depending on conditions). True, if the amount of petrol is large, a cigarette would most likely be put out if dropped into a tank of it but if it is dropped onto a light covering of it on the floor, then ignition is likely. Factor in petrol vapour and ignition is even more likely...

[cookie_monster]

@ sparkeh: yeh i remember not long ago reading about a test where they had a caravan full of phones and then varied the amount of fuel vapor in there while ringing them. It is of course better safe than sorry

 

As for the explosion at a petrol station i think you'll find that petrol will go up very easily but you could chuck a cigarette into a bucket of diesel with no probs (at room temp). It's all to do with vaporisation at average temperatures.

[localzuk]

Sparking of the contacts between the battery and the phone so I've heard.

 

That's the thought, but it is very unlikely. The fact that they use Lithium Ion batteries is one possible problem though, as they can burst into flames if pierced. But that's only as risky as any other random device bursting into flames, and wouldn't matter if it was in use or not.

[SYNACK]

No its nothing because it can't happen

 

The voltage in a mobile is massively under what would be needed to ignite petrol.

 

Seriously, Google it and see how many experts have rubbished it.

 

Oh don't worry I know that it is complete BS . That is just the excuse that they give the attendants around here as to why it is bad.

[sparkeh]

Plus, if mobiles are so dangerous in petrol stations, why do lots of them have mobile masts in their forecourt price signs? Death wish?

[somabc]

@ DOS_BOX: ahh that might be where i remember it from, 'Notes from a small island' wasn't it?

 

Exactly right - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Notes-Small-Island-Bill-Bryson/dp/0552996009/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213886994&sr=8-3

 

To say that Fleet Street in the early 1980s was out of control barely hints at the scale of matters. The National Graphical Association, the printers’ union, decided how many people were needed on each paper (hundreds and hundreds) and how many were to be laid off during a recession (none), and billed the management accordingly. Managements didn’t have the power to hire and fire their own print workers, indeed generally didn’t know how many print workers they employed. I have before me a headline from December 1985 saying “Auditors find 300 extra printing staff at Telegraph.” That is to say, the Telegraph was paying salaries to 300 people who didn’t actually work there. On top of plump salaries, printers received special bonus payments for handling type of irregular sizes, for dealing with heavily edited copy, for setting words in a language other than English, for the white space at the end of lines. If work was done out of house – for instance, advertising copy that was set outside the building – they were compensated for not doing it. In consequence, many senior printers, with skills no more advanced than you would expect to find in any back-street print shop, enjoyed incomes in the top 2 per cent of British earnings. It was crazy.

Edited June 19, 2008 by somabc

[localzuk]

As for the explosion at a petrol station i think you'll find that petrol will go up very easily but you could chuck a cigarette into a bucket of diesel with no probs (at room temp). It's all to do with vaporisation at average temperatures.

 

Yep, diesel has to be at least 62 degrees before it will ignite. So a cigarette in a bucket of it at normal outdoor temperatures would just go out. Compared with petrol, which will burn at temperatures higher than minus 40 degrees.

[SYNACK]

That's the thought, but it is very unlikely. The fact that they use Lithium Ion batteries is one possible problem though, as they can burst into flames if pierced. But that's only as risky as any other random device bursting into flames, and wouldn't matter if it was in use or not.

 

Lithium batteries are good like that, massively volatile when the insides are exposed to moisture. Your average cellphone battery could easily shred a mailbox if the protective casing was removed and the insides dropped into water.

[somabc]

Lithium batteries are good like that, massively volatile when the insides are exposed to moisture. Your average cellphone battery could easily shred a mailbox if the protective casing was removed and the insides dropped into water.

 

Its not pure Lithium in there though its Lithium cobalt oxide LiCoO2 so you should be alright in water I would think.

 

http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf/ACA4000/ACA4000PE3.pdf

Edited June 19, 2008 by somabc

[SYNACK]

Its not pure Lithium in there though its Lithium cobalt oxide LiCoO2 so you should be alright in water I would think.

 

Safer, it depends on how charged the battery is and how much lithium exists free from the system as a contaminate as chemical systems are always a balance between reacted and unreacted components.

 

Edit: Nice spec sheet link it even has the formulas

Edited June 19, 2008 by SYNACK

[somabc]

Safer, it depends on how charged the battery is and how much lithium exists free from the system as a contaminate.

 

That's true, I wouldn't want to test it!

[Dos_Box]

That's a risk all HGV drivers have, as do coach drivers and others... Nothing special about tanker drivers.

 

 

 

Actually, either can be a source of ignition. The latter is a very low possibility (the the extent that it isn't worth banning, as someone dropping a quartz rock on another quartz rock in a puddle of petrol is more likely), the lit fag is much more likely. The temperature range of a lit cigarette is between 400 and 700 degrees centigrade. (depending on whether the person is drawing in at the time or not). The ignition point of liquid petrol is around 260 - 480 degrees C (depending on conditions). True, if the amount of petrol is large, a cigarette would most likely be put out if dropped into a tank of it but if it is dropped onto a light covering of it on the floor, then ignition is likely. Factor in petrol vapour and ignition is even more likely...

 

It's not the petrol that ignites, it's the vapour. I've done some quite sever fire fighting courses (including bulk fuel installations and other flammable storage areas) during my military hazmat and taker operator training, and there are quite a few myths about this type of thing. One fun task was trying to light aviation fuel with a math, lighter, candle and then blowtorch. Apart from the blow torch it was a lesson in futility. Fun days, especially firing hundreds of gallons of foam over fuel fire pits