Google Classroom - Allow external access...

[Koldov]

1. For some reason our SLT have decided that there is a need for a 'meet the teacher' video to be made by all class teachers and shared with all the parents (I guess due to a lack of face to face parental contact in recent times (especially for our Year 3 who have just joined the school).

 

2. They have also decided to do this in Google Classroom

 

3. I have received an email from SLT today asking me to allow a parent access to a teacher's video from a non-school (GMail) account.

 

Now I have a couple of questions:

 

1. Is this even possible?

 

2. I have said no (even if it is possible) 'amIright'?

 

3. The parent will have to watch the video whilst the child is logged in (as we don't give out account details to parents - although which child would not tell their parents their log-in details)...

[Tech1]

Well from past experience, saying no to SLT is never a good idea.

 

Anyway, we've had to do a similar thing but we've simply uploaded the videos to our YouTube channel unlisted, and then posted the links for the relevant year groups on our website for parents to view if they wish to do so.

[paulkerton]

1. Is this even possible?

 

Yes. You can allow non domain users to join your classes.

 

2. I have said no (even if it is possible) 'amIright'?

Yes. If I was a parent of an 8 year old, I don't want a random parent getting access to messaging my child in any way.

 

3. The parent will have to watch the video whilst the child is logged in (as we don't give out account details to parents - although which child would not tell their parents their log-in details)...

 

The account is the child's not the parents.

Maybe create a Google Site and then make it public, but don't advertise it to the world.

 

Well from past experience, saying no to SLT is never a good idea.

 

The thing is SLT hire you for the experience and knowledge. You say no. If they over ride you, then get it in writing, because SLT will happily pass the disaster onto you.

Edited September 30, 2021 by paulkerton

[Koldov]

Yes, all very true...

 

This was all discussed, signed off and started without my knowledge.

 

As for the SLT and teachers in general in my own opinion (and experience), is that they're just concerned with if they can, not always if they should.

 

Interesting point about it being the child's account though, I wonder how enforceable that is given that a child of that age is not legally culpable for anything much (and their actions very much the parents/guardians responsibility - who doesn't call the parents in of a naughty child)?

 

But I do take your point about an adult being able to access the child's account (given the safeguarding angle) I think we have covered the bases with the 'chat' functions disabled (as much as I know about anyway).

 

Although I do think that there is no possible way to enforce this, given that surely a parent has a right to see the 'homework' they have been doing on GC (or even help them with it) and therefore be able to watch the teacher's video - and once the devices are logged in could be easily accessed by a parent (I'm not sure most children of our age range would be able to do their GC homework on a 'private' device' that the parents could not access).

 

EDIT: If the 'onlyfans' and 'Tinder' apps connected to our children's school accounts in the 'Manage Third Party App Access' is anything to go by it seems the devices are generally used by parents and children alike (of course I'm hoping that it's the parents)...

Edited September 30, 2021 by Koldov

[DavR]

We're doing this same exercise right now, but not through Google Classroom.

 

The video goes up (unlisted) on our school's YouTube channel and a link is emailed home.

 

This might be more work for whoever is in charge of the YouTube channel, but it's far preferable than shooting holes in your GC security.

[Ditto]

1. For some reason our SLT have decided that there is a need for a 'meet the teacher' video to be made by all class teachers and shared with all the parents (I guess due to a lack of face to face parental contact in recent times (especially for our Year 3 who have just joined the school).

 

2. They have also decided to do this in Google Classroom

 

3. I have received an email from SLT today asking me to allow a parent access to a teacher's video from a non-school (GMail) account.

 

Now I have a couple of questions:

 

1. Is this even possible?

 

2. I have said no (even if it is possible) 'amIright'?

 

3. The parent will have to watch the video whilst the child is logged in (as we don't give out account details to parents - although which child would not tell their parents their log-in details)...

For 1 and 2, it's better to discuss what the underlying requirements are. SLT jumping to the solution isn't best use of your skills, but the trick is to get to the actual requirement and then advise some options, explain the pros and cons of each, make a recommendation of which you think is best then they can decide.

 

A key question of course is how restricted access to the video is. If the SLT is happy it is available (and searchable) to everyone on the web, then there are some simple options including classroom and youtube. If they want some level of restriction, you could make use of 'Everyone with the link'. Nothing stops it being passed to others so not that secure, but it's a question of the risk of that happening.

 

I often found the concept of gmail accounts and google accounts got muddled. With workspace, the norm for pupils is to have a school controlled google account with a school controlled gmail account. For parents, you can have a google account linked to a non gmail account - but some parent can resist having a google account at all.

 

Out of interest, do you have the classroom guardian functionality turned on? Have a look at https://support.google.com/edu/classroom/answer/7017326?hl=en, because I'm not sure it's as uncontrolled as you might think - and I'm not sure I see this option is any worse than publishing on youtube. That said, classroom may not be ideal, but perhaps if SLT are aware of the classroom guardian functionality, that's lead them to their proposal.

[Ditto]

Yes, all very true...

 

This was all discussed, signed off and started without my knowledge.

 

As for the SLT and teachers in general in my own opinion (and experience), is that they're just concerned with if they can, not always if they should.

 

Interesting point about it being the child's account though, I wonder how enforceable that is given that a child of that age is not legally culpable for anything much (and their actions very much the parents/guardians responsibility - who doesn't call the parents in of a naughty child)?

 

But I do take your point about an adult being able to access the child's account (given the safeguarding angle) I think we have covered the bases with the 'chat' functions disabled (as much as I know about anyway).

 

Although I do think that there is no possible way to enforce this, given that surely a parent has a right to see the 'homework' they have been doing on GC (or even help them with it) and therefore be able to watch the teacher's video - and once the devices are logged in could be easily accessed by a parent (I'm not sure most children of our age range would be able to do their GC homework on a 'private' device' that the parents could not access).

 

EDIT: If the 'onlyfans' and 'Tinder' apps connected to our children's school accounts in the 'Manage Third Party App Access' is anything to go by it seems the devices are generally used by parents and children alike (of course I'm hoping that it's the parents)...

I no longer have access a Google Admin account so could be a little out of date, but I understand the concern with a parent accessing a child account. However, I thought the parent guardian offered a controlled experience. Definitely worth checking, even if not for this issue, but I'm happy to learn if it's not suitable and why. Life-long learning - I'm always ready for that!

[Ditto]

Yes, all very true...

This was all discussed, signed off and started without my knowledge.

Just on this point - yeah, some SLT never learn and I can only sympathise. Personally, I'd still go through the steps I advise accordingly. Being super rational with SLT can be empowering, but I do know in some environments they can be impossible to work with - and that's when I leave them...

[jthompson]

Admin > Apps > Google Workspace > Classroom > Class Settings > About class membership.

 

In there, the setting "Who can join classes in your domain" would govern whether external accounts can join your classes. It's a domain-wide setting, and can't be set differently for specific classes, so you probably want to advise SLT of that limitation and stick with "Users in your domain only".

 

There's an advantage in using YouTube or Google Sites instead, as it won't rely on the audience having to sign in to anything. Always a plus when providing for parents.

[DavR]

For 1 and 2, it's better to discuss what the underlying requirements are. SLT jumping to the solution isn't best use of your skills, but the trick is to get to the actual requirement and then advise some options, explain the pros and cons of each, make a recommendation of which you think is best then they can decide.

 

So many times this. I regularly get calls from staff looking for help to get X to do Y, when actually, that's not remotely the best way of doing it. Always start from "What are you trying to achieve" and usually you can come up with a far more appropriate solution.

[Koldov]

So, the 'Guardian' thing...

 

I have briefly seen that in my numerous hours perusing various Google help documents!

 

I thought it was only a summary email (my bold)?

 

"Manage guardians in your domain

This article is for Google Workspace Administrators. Teachers go here.

 

Guardians can get email summaries of their student’s progress and work in a class. As the Google Workspace administrator, you can:

 

Allow guardian email summaries for your school or district.

Give teachers permission to invite or remove guardians.

Guardians who sign up for email summaries can’t see the Stream, Classwork, People, or Grades pages in Classroom."

 

Absolutely not going to stat poking holes in GC security and start allowing non-domain members to access it, but as for the parent's having GC login information for the child's account there seems to be some confusion over whether this is an appropriate thing or not judging by comments in another thread?

[paulkerton]

Guardian Summaries are literally that - emails only.

 

Primary School - Well, we don't want them to have it but we accept that parents might need them to help them.

Secondary School - Nope. It's the kid's account. They wouldn't have access if it was a local account only - same applies here.

[Koldov]

Yes, we are a very small Junior School, so really only the upper echelons of a Primary, but still within the age range that need a bit of help.

 

EDIT: We don't regularly give out account details as a matter of course, but there is no policy in place to actually stop the parents having access (in fact it will usually be the parents ringing up asking us for the password).

 

However, we have recently opened ourselves up to a new 'can of worms' as we found out one student had found out the password of another (and had written a few unsavoury words on their homework) the culprit was found with a quick audit of the victim's log-in activity and an aberrant IP address had been recorded (a quick check on that IP address showed the perpetrator) and parents were called in for a few choice words. All the students had their passwords reset and we allowed the children to change it on the next login to a password of their choice (parents were emailed and advised to help with the choice if necessary).

 

This will be fun...

Edited September 30, 2021 by Koldov

[jthompson]

I'd suggest that even if parents are assumed to be accessing their child's account (because primary age), providing materials intended for the parent through that child's account is muddying the waters somewhat, especially if it might lead to parent/teacher comms be conducted via the pupil's account.

[Koldov]

Good shout!

 

// Every day is a school day.

 

[RLR]

We had a request to open up google classrooms to people outside of the domain. We allowed it and within the first day a student had created a penny wise account and joined a classroom to post creepy penny wise messages. We quickly removed the user and turned that setting off. We guess it was a student that had seen the join code to the classroom.