Promethean Alternatives?

[BenQ_NicolaP]

@gangalong thanks you, it was really good to meet you and I am pleased you liked the screen. As a follow up I will see if I can flag the issues to my contact at Intel about the intel graphics driver

[Guest ZFarnworth]

Prowise have great touchscreens and comes with a pen!

 

Highly recommend them

[Guest ZFarnworth]

What about HDMI over Ethernet?

[Guest ZFarnworth]

They’re a bit expensive but worth it and works for our use and think we’ve got one running on a touchscreen I think [emoji189]

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/labgear-hdmi-transmitter-kit/6291R?tc=FB3&ds_kid=92700055281954487&ds_rl=1249401&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI1frT47bY8wIVDtZ3Ch2vhQmzEAQYAiABEgJAGPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

Take a look above at the HDMI to Ethernet transmitters

[Gongalong]

Prowise have great touchscreens and comes with a pen!

 

Highly recommend them

We had a demo and the software kept crashing, so we were put off. It had the same cable length issue.

They’re a bit expensive but worth it and works for our use and think we’ve got one running on a touchscreen I think [emoji189]

These are only full HD, so not sure they would work. The issue is the Intel driver sending at 4k, so it would need a Cat 5 system capable of sending 4k. I'm guessing that's extra expense, more cables etc.

[chazzy2501]

My HP Probook G8 (with the IRIS) did an UNPROMPTED! Firmware update... Now the Newline TV works with 4k60 over HDMI.. The promethean almost works. (works but shingles in the image)

 

The firmware may have been nothing to do with it and it was humidity or something.

 

EDIT: I also used a Dell 7290 with UHD 620 Graphics. it only pushed 4k30 and worked 100% on both panels.

[BenQ_Royce]

Just to add, huge thanks to @BenQ_NicolaP as we have been leant a demo 75" BenQ screen. I've used that for testing and it confirmed the issue with the Intel driver sending at 4k, as it clearly displays the resolution and frequency. It's a good screen, and has the edge over Promethean for us because it has USB connectors paired with each HDMI input; in several classrooms we have connections for both desktops and laptops, and Prometheans only have a single USB input. I haven't tested the 7.5m Antiference cable yet with the BenQ, but the combination of 5m, wall box, and 2m has the same issue as Promethean. Again though, I think it's the Intel graphics driver that's at fault for sending at too high a resolution and frequency, and having no ability to change it when using duplicate. Other things I like about the BenQ screen: plenty loud (louder than our equivalent 75" Prometheans), blue light reduction function, built-in annotation, and digital whiteboard (Promethean has both of the latter, but it's well implemented in the BenQ). From an IT management perspective it also has functionality to be controlled remotely e.g. enable/disable volume mute, they can be setup to have information sent to them (I can't think what the posh name for that is offhand! Could be useful in receptions etc.), they have a built-in CO2 sensor (which dates from before COVID), as well as temp, humidity, and particulate sensors (all of which can be set to display on-screen).

 

thanks for the feedback, good to hear you're getting somewhere. Our 10yr UK interactive touchscreen business has been an evolving mix of what we've learnt in classroom projection user/maintainer needs, combined with borrowing BenQ technology from our desktop monitor brands, so in this case, if you speak to support they are well used to dealing with display connectivity troubleshooting.

[Gongalong]

Interesting. Did you get it through HP's update software, Windows Update, or something else? I did try Dell's Support Assistant again recently, and downloaded the graphics driver direct from Intel, but it shows June on the driver date as it did before.

 

To the TV, what's the cable length, and any joins, wall boxes etc.?

[chazzy2501]

@Gongalong The firmware was unprompted, I don't know why it applied one. Usually I get them through Windows update BUT you HAVE to seek additional updates and pick the firmware. maybe it's a BIOS setting to fetch updates. I only saw the end of the process so didn't even see what it was updating and can't even state that it was graphics related.

 

Unfortunately this is the only IRIS XE laptop I have for testing, so I can't compare. I have no other devices that can drive 4k60 so testing there ends. I can say I was a direct HDMI cable an AMazon Basics high speed with ethernet cable that has 4k written on it. (but not 4k60) so the test could / should be considered invalid.

 

I read that "high speed" HDMI means that it is NOT good enough for 4k60 only 1080p and 4k30. we need "premium high speed" for 4k60

 

https://www.hdmi.org/resource/cables

 

I have yet to test the active cable that is rated 18Gbps.

 

EDIT: The newline provided cable was only "high speed with ethernet" but the Promethean cable is "premium high speed" and that didn't work with the IRIS on initial testing. I will try it again with the active cable when opportunity allows.

Edited October 20, 2021 by chazzy2501

[Gongalong]

Yep, everything I've been testing has been rated as "premium", but they're not all performing the same. What was the cable length, and did it have any joins or wall boxes?

[chazzy2501]

These are hire units, no joins or wall boxes. Direct from laptop to screen. (front and rear hdmi ports tested.)

[stevewill6]

I watched a LTT video recently where they got their hands on a cable tester, conclusion was not all cables are manufactured to spec.

[chazzy2501]

This testing has proved very useful. I've discovered that with the Newline TVs the input panel refresh rate is half of the display refresh rate. As most of my devices connected only at 30hz the input was 15hz making handwriting all but impossible.

 

Now I can force 60hz at 4k or reduce to 1080p60 the handwriting is vastly improved.

[Gongalong]

Heh, I wouldn't have thought that would affect it.

[chazzy2501]

This is for the archive... The reason my older laptops were connecting at 30hz was because usbc via the HP G5 docking stations. The docking stations are capable of running 4k60 on my G8 laptops (probook 440 g8 with iris xe) with no additional settings. The G7 laptops however require that you sacrifice USB speeds to the dock. This is called Hi-resolution mode in the BIOS. In this mode the Intel graphics based 10th gen i5 cpus can run at 4k60 via usbc and thus to the panel.

 

This might have something to do with display stream compression but this is a total guess.

[chazzy2501]

ALRIGHT! Also for the archive. it doesn't work, nothing is reliable enough... fricking 4k60 uhd on, off, maybe, sometimes, black image, balls!

 

I've gone back to analogue. Using DisplayPort to VGA adaptor (on the dock) and running my old leads (vga with a headphone cable integrated) to the panel... wow 1080p60 all day, no issues, no buts. (the dock has a headphone port so the sound is also no issue)

 

Intel has an "active resolution" and an "actual resolution" so you pick 1080p and it sends 4k signal with a 1080p image! trying to wrangle it to not do that or default back to that, impossible!

[Gongalong]

HDMI has a lot to answer for...

[Gongalong]

I've had no luck with Dell support, they've been useless so far. After going backwards and forwards with what I'm guessing are firstline support I was told that my issue was not covered, and I had to pay £48 for a support incident (bearing in mind these are new laptops). It was supposed to be paid on the basis of no-fix no-fee. So I paid the £48, and then spent 30 minutes discussing the issue with someone else in support (no idea what level) who accepted it was an issue, but refused to accept it was Dell's fault. He then said I shouldn't have had to pay anyway and transferred me back to firstline support, and after waiting for 20 minutes in a queue to talk to them I gave up and referred it to my account manager.

 

The issue is clearly with the Intel driver, but I don't see it being resolved until (1) I can get through to someone at Dell that will escalate it or (2) Intel fix it in the meantime, which has happened before with a similar issue. Frustrating!

[Alis_Klar]

Don't go cheap on HDMI runs. Use optical or twisted pair adapters. Even if you or the installer can get your combo of PC and display working when you come to change the device on either end it might stop working. If you are running HDMI out of spec you are taking risks.

 

Again i say buy the twisted pair (HDMI over UTP) adapters. You can get ones that transmit power for the receiver side over the Cat5 so no power needed at the display side.

 

Something like this.

 

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg3330-hdmi-20m/hdmi-active-fibre-optical-lead/dp/AV28914

 

or this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Extender-Ethernet-Keyboard-Control-Signals/dp/B097869LY6/ref=sr_1_18?keywords=hdmi%2Bover%2Butp&qid=1637689123&sr=8-18&th=1

 

The second one does KVM too so it might work for your USB signal for touch.

[Gongalong]

We used 4k UHD cables at a shorter length, and had problems from 5m+.

 

We only need cable lengths up to around 7.5m, but the laptops won't push much beyond 5m+ in 4k. As above, we're only using full HD laptops, so when duplicating the screen would be quite happy to send at full HD. The problem is the laptop driver sends the image at 4k @ 60Hz.

[Duke5A]

Having the exact same issue right now with Promethean Titanium boards. Old Dell Latitude 3490 laptops (7th gen Intel) work without an issue as they only support 30Hz at 4k on the HDMI. The new HP ProBook 430 G8 laptops (11th gen Intel) don't work unless you drop the refresh to 30Hz. This is with a myriad of different brand HDMI 2.0 spec cables, including the supplied cable with the board. In addition to different cables we've used Windows 10 LTSC, Windows 10 Enterprise and Windows 11. Four different version of the Intel display drivers as well.

 

This is driving me nuts. I can't expect my teachers to know how to drop the refresh when they plug one of these in.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Duke5A

[Duke5A]

We used 4k UHD cables at a shorter length, and had problems from 5m+.

 

We only need cable lengths up to around 7.5m, but the laptops won't push much beyond 5m+ in 4k. As above, we're only using full HD laptops, so when duplicating the screen would be quite happy to send at full HD. The problem is the laptop driver sends the image at 4k @ 60Hz.

 

This is what I observed too. In clone mode instead of matching the resolution of the laptop's display of 1080, the signal is sent to the board at 4k and the desktop is scaled down to 1080. Nuts. Even if this still worked the old way of matching the resolution of the primary display though, I'd still have the problem if the teacher used extended mode.

[Gongalong]

I asked Dell to log this as an issue with Intel but they said it was working as designed and refused to escalate it.

 

We've just resigned ourself to getting called to classrooms to update it when required. I think it does at least remember the model, but the more 4k models we get the more of a pain it's going to be.

[chazzy2501]

I've been trialing an "EDID Feeder" basically tells the laptop the display is only capable of certain refresh rates and resolutions. Like this one (looks the same different name) https://www.amazon.co.uk/Akozon-Emulator-Programmable-Amplifies-Equalized-default/dp/B0BDS43XJR/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=1RBFRK115RR4&keywords=edid+feeder&qid=1668159438&sprefix=edid+feeder%2Caps%2C62&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1

 

I can tell the laptop (and the intel driver) that the display is only 1080p/60. Seems to work well.

[Gongalong]

Interesting!