Promethean Alternatives?

[BenQ_Royce]

We do like to keep it simple, but annotation and whiteboard are key for us. Does the RE7501 have sound as well?

Can we get a quote direct from BenQ, or do we need to go to a reseller?

 

we have an education team that can help you and then work with your preferred reseller, I'll get someone to PM you this morning. Yes the RE has sound, it's just not the front facing soundbar.

 

The BenQBus is heading back tomorrow from a busy week in Hampshire so will be back very soon, we managed to fill up with diesel in Andover!

[BenQ_Royce]

RM702 fits in quite nicely with the BENQ bus theme!

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]63230[/ATTACH]

 

I'll get my anorak....

 

a Routemaster was a genuine option, but with the miles we want to do by the end of next year, and the power needed for the kit we went for a refitted Alexander Dennis Enviro400....

[BenQ_NicolaP]

Hi, I will PM you to arrange a demo

[MartinT]

Thanks for the info. Do they have built-in annotation and whiteboard, and what sort of cable lengths and setup do you have e.g. wall box, fly lead?

 

They do have that, but our teachers use OneNote interactively which saves their work as they go. We are running up to 7.5m HDMI cables directly as wall boxes are problematic. USB cables that long are in-line amplified ones.

 

They are all wi-fi connected so have that module and native AirPlay is used the most for mirroring.

[Gongalong]

Thanks. Interesting to know that Iiyama also have the issue. We've also seen it with Prowise panels, but I wasn't very impresed by the Android system on those, seemed unstable.

[BenQ_Royce]

I know BenQ tried external as well as internally boosted USB, most vendors who have been involved design and production for a while should be able to help with cable troubleshooting. as for whiteboarding our solution allows saving to most popular cloud services, with NFC card login on higher models.

[Gongalong]

@BenQ_NicolaP Is that in response to me, or someone else on the thread?

[BenQ_NicolaP]

@Gongalong Sorry for some reason those dates posted here but are for someone else, I emailed you yesterday

[chazzy2501]

@Gongalong I've just got a loaner unit from Promethean a Nickel.... The supplied cable wont show a picture reliably. I have an IRIS XE laptop that can drive at 4k60 this was the issue. Our older laptops can only drive at 4k30 and the cable works 100%... AGAIN the supplied Promethean cable didn't work! lol!

 

I don't have any spare optical cables at the moment I spotted a usbc on the back I'll try that. I don't find the board very responsive with external devices anyway.

[Gongalong]

Our problem laptops are Dell Latitude 3520, and they also have the Intel Iris Xe graphics chipset. We've also had the problem with Lenovo V15 laptops that have the Intel UHD chipset.

 

I may have mentioned above, but initially Promethean support said they only guarantee their Nickel screens will work with the supplied 3m cable. They then changed to saying that they would support their screens with a single "premium" HDMI cable up to 8m long.

 

I'm still in the middle of testing, and working with our installer, but the latest combination I've tested is a 5m Antiference premium cable with a wall box and a 2m Antiference cable from the wall box. That doesn't work with the Dell Latitudes. Works fine with our older laptops. The Latitudes were set to duplicate at 1920x1080, but it's interesting that you've mentioned resolution and frequency. I willl double check that it's not a signal send issue, assuming the driver will let me change frequency.

 

With our installer's help I am going to test further with different wall boxes, and ultimately we may be stuck having to install with a 7.5m premium HDMI cable, assuming that works. I've got these on order for testing https://uk.farnell.com/roline/11-04-5805/audio-cable-hdmi-plug-7-5m-black/dp/2807794

 

I have logged a ticket with Dell support as well, although I don't hold out much hope of any changes on the laptop fixing it. (I have ensured it has latest BIOS and driver updates)

[BenQ_NicolaP]

We can't speak for other brands, but all of our current interactive panels feature HDMI 2.0, which means it will support 4k@60, you do not need to use the supplied cable, however you do need to ensure you are using an appropriate high speed HDMI cable that can handle 4k@60 (which I am sure you already know) otherwise you may end up with 4k@30. As for USB, you can use extenders, the important thing to take in to account is that (depending on length) more often not need to be powered extenders as interactivity requires more power than say a webcam. Another thing to be mindful of is the wall plate connectors, you may be using a high speed HDMI cable from the laptop to the wall socket, but if the HDMI cable behind the wall socket is not you will end up with either 1080p@60 or more likely 4k@30" - I hope this makes sense and please let me if there is anything I can help with

 

[Gongalong]

This is definitely part of the issue we have, in that you can't seem to get HDMI premium wall boxes. But for us with Promethean we just don't get anything at all through a wall box (with a 5m cable to the wall box), and that's running at 1080p.

[chazzy2501]

just as an fyi the usbc port does carry picture and interactive but doesn't charge the laptop. it did work at 4k60 just fine but the usbc cable is only 1.5m. I couldn't get any HDMI cable to work 100% with the board. I'll raise the issue with the rep when they come Friday.

 

Also disappointing is that the latency of the input is much worse than the built in PC. but this isn't the place for a review.

 

EDIT: My usbc cable, no usbc cable was supplied. (I borrowed it from a HP docking monitor)

Edited October 13, 2021 by chazzy2501

[synaesthesia]

Still having the problem with our Latitudes even after updating just about everything there is to update. The closest we've gotten to a workable solution is bypassing the wallboxes entirely

[Gongalong]

@chazzy2501 Is that with Promethean? I don't notice much lag, but the staff here much prefer to either use the built-in annotation or whiteboard.

 

@synaesthesia I've logged a ticket with Dell support, but don't hold out much hope. Testing 7.5m single premium cables is up next, then replacing the 10 or so we have. We'll be securing the cables to the desks to try and minimise staff crunching the plugs.

[BenQ_NicolaP]

We have our double decker bus which is kitted out with all our products if you would like us to visit your school and see if there is anything we can do to help then please let us know. We would be happy to help where we can

[BenQ_Royce]

Another thing to be mindful of is the wall plate connectors, you may be using a high speed HDMI cable from the laptop to the wall socket, but if the HDMI cable behind the wall socket is not you will end up with either 1080p@60 or more likely 4k@30"

good advice, sensible to replace whole cable run when replacing previous low resolution projector cabling. It was common in the past IWB & PRJ replaced with a touchscreen but using the same cabling looms and sockets, then think its a touchscreen issue.

 

can also be as simple as checking which HDMI & USB inputs on the panel are of the same standard, they aren't always the same, and often not labelled, worth checking with vendor.

[chazzy2501]

@Gongalong The lag with a laptop is higher than with the built in PC. Using M$ paint as a test, with the built in Windows PC it was nearly flawless, using the external laptop at 4k60hz using the USBC cable, the "ink" was about an inch behind where I was drawing at speed. Not terrible but clearly worse than the built in Windows PC and the built in Android whiteboard.

[Gongalong]

Interesting. I'd need to test again, but I didn't spot any lag.

 

I've also found out what a brush plate is, dating back to a question on the previous. I hadn't realised it was just an opening with a brush fitted

[Gongalong]

ROLINE 7.5m cables haven't worked, even though on the face of it the cables appear to be well shielded and built, and are described as premium and 4k capable. That's disappointing.

 

I've had the most luck with Antiference cables so far, but they don't do anything bigger than 5m.

 

I did some more testing though from the driver perspective, specifically the Intel command center or whatever it's called. When I put the laptop into extend it changed the second screen to 4k. I changed it to full HD and... it came to life. If I switch to duplicate, screen goes off. In duplicate I have no control over refresh rate, I can only choose 60Hz. Otherwise I would have dropped it to 30Hz. So I'm thinking it could be more of a driver issue, and for some reason in duplicate the laptop is sending the duplicated screen at 4k. We aren't worried about using 4k, we just want full HD.

 

I also tested with our Lenovo V15s. Again, they wouldn't work with duplicate. The Intel driver on the V15 though let's me change the frequency. I dropped it to 30Hz and... it works! So on the V15s I can seemingly use duplicate with this one change.

 

I'm not quite sure where to go from here. I have the ticket open with Dell, and have already had the basic troubleshooting response. I suspect I've got a snowball's chance in hell of Dell understanding this fully and referring it back to Intel, if a driver needs to be fixed. I might raise with Promethean again to see if they have any ideas.

[DaveTheTech]

Manufacturers cant't be trusted with what they claim their cables can achieve. Link is an LTT video that goes into signal strength and intergity.

[chazzy2501]

Om, I have The promethean Nickle and the Newline Mira, BOTH will not work over HDMI and supplied cables. The IRIS graphics may be the issue or not having a cable that is good enough. The cable supplied is 3m and states 2k4k60...

 

Knocking back to 30hz and it's fine but the laptop wants to run in 4k60... again using the USBC cable works perfectly.

 

The promethean guy brought a number of cables NONE worked! including a USBC to HDMI cable....

 

I have this monster 30M active optical HDMI cable for the new hall projector, I'll give it a try tonight.. (claims 18gbp 4:4:4)

 

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-signal/psg3332-hdmi-30m/hdmi-active-fibre-optical-lead/dp/AV28916

 

 

 

Only my short USBC to USBC cable works at 4k60 reliably.

[Gongalong]

I've tried a couple of 5m active fibre optic, and still no dice. For me at least they've been worse than the Antiference branded cables. Our installer also tried a 20m fibre optic powered from USB, which didn't work at all. I still get the best mileage from the Antiference branded premium HDMI cables, but I've just got one of those that's 7.5m and that isn't stable either with the Promethean. Basically 5m is as long as I can go at 4k, at least with Promethean.

 

I still think the root issue is that Intel's driver in duplicate mode wants to send a 4k @ 60Hz display, even though the laptop screen is 2k. Annoying! Dell are proving very slow to respond.

 

Just to add, huge thanks to @BenQ_NicolaP as we have been leant a demo 75" BenQ screen. I've used that for testing and it confirmed the issue with the Intel driver sending at 4k, as it clearly displays the resolution and frequency. It's a good screen, and has the edge over Promethean for us because it has USB connectors paired with each HDMI input; in several classrooms we have connections for both desktops and laptops, and Prometheans only have a single USB input. I haven't tested the 7.5m Antiference cable yet with the BenQ, but the combination of 5m, wall box, and 2m has the same issue as Promethean. Again though, I think it's the Intel graphics driver that's at fault for sending at too high a resolution and frequency, and having no ability to change it when using duplicate. Other things I like about the BenQ screen: plenty loud (louder than our equivalent 75" Prometheans), blue light reduction function, built-in annotation, and digital whiteboard (Promethean has both of the latter, but it's well implemented in the BenQ). From an IT management perspective it also has functionality to be controlled remotely e.g. enable/disable volume mute, they can be setup to have information sent to them (I can't think what the posh name for that is offhand! Could be useful in receptions etc.), they have a built-in CO2 sensor (which dates from before COVID), as well as temp, humidity, and particulate sensors (all of which can be set to display on-screen).

[Gongalong]

Interestingly the 7.5m Antiference cable works on the BenQ.

[BenQ_NicolaP]

@chazzy2501 would you like to loan one of our boards too so you have something to compare against?