Promethean Alternatives?

[Gongalong]

Hi folks,

 

We've had no end of problems with the newer Promethean Nickel touchscreens, as they are fussy about HDMI cable lengths, particularly with newer laptops. (Promethean have said we can't go beyond 8m, have to use HDMI premium cables, and cannot use wall boxes)

 

I'm after recommendations for alternative 75" touchscreens which are (1) less fussy about HDMI cable lengths with wall boxes and (2) have built-in annotation and whiteboard?

 

(Anecdotally I've heard that Benq are better, but some further information either way would be appreciated)

 

Thanks

[DavR]

We've recently gone back to Promethean, mainly so that we could keep using the ActivInspire software.

 

Before that though, we were using iiYama Prolite 65s without much problem. I'm fairly sure these have a whiteboard and annotation built in, and are about the same price point.

 

Although I would probably say we had similar levels of HDMI issues with both vendors. Basic passive HDMI just isn't very good over distance, or going through connectors/wall boxes.

[Gongalong]

With the previous model of Promethean (VTP-65) everything has been fine, it seems to be this newer model, particularly when combined with newer laptops (we've had issues with both Dell and Lenovo).

[DavR]

I've definitely found that different GPUs output HDMI to a different "power" almost. We've got one cheapo screen that will only run reliably if it's run off a discrete graphics card, for instance, so I'm not surprised you're getting different results with different laptop models.

[Gongalong]

I thought "TVs" (touchscreens) were going to be the end of all our projector issues, but no, it's a different set of issues. Sigh...

[synaesthesia]

With the previous model of Promethean (VTP-65) everything has been fine, it seems to be this newer model, particularly when combined with newer laptops (we've had issues with both Dell and Lenovo).

 

What models are you using please? We're running Lenovo L14's which appear OK but our latest batch, Dell Latitude 3420's are really picky. They won't even entertain any of the few classrooms we have left with older projectors and long VGA cables and certainly a few of the prometheans with slightly longer runs appear to struggle.

[Gongalong]

We have had the most issues with Lenovo V15s, which did seem rather cheap and I suspect were churned out during lockdown when laptops were like hen's teeth.

 

But we still have issues with Dell Latitude 5410, 5511, and 3520. I'm sure it's a GPU power issue as well, perhaps to try and eke out even more life from a battery.

 

We are looking at replacing all the cables with our recently installed Promethean Nickel 75" with Antiference (a make of premium HDMI cable) which seems to be the most reliable, but I still want to do more testing before we move everything over to these cables. Frustrating!

[synaesthesia]

Any improvement if you drop the display resolution to HD rather than QHD?

I don't think it's resolution related personally as we have issues with long VGA runs on our dells but as suspected GPU output power may indeed be a possibility.

[Gongalong]

QHD as in 2560 x 1440? Our laptops are only capable of running 1920 x 1080, although I'm not sure offhand if the screens are 4k capable. I'm assuming they just drop to 1920 x 1080 with our laptops.

[synaesthesia]

Yeah, meant 4k as the screens are that natively - and yeah if the laptops will only output HD then definitely will only output at that.

[dhicks]

I'm after recommendations for alternative 75" touchscreens which are (1) less fussy about HDMI cable lengths with wall boxes and (2) have built-in annotation and whiteboard?

 

We've not had any HDMI cable-length problems (that I know of) with the various models of SMART board touch screens we have around the building - about 20 to 30 devices, assorted models from the last five years or so, up to and including the new GX series. We're driving those with desktop machines rather than laptops - VeryPC all-in-one machines, explicitly specified (6 years ago - planned ahead!) to be able to drive an external 4K screen. In the past, with a couple of old projectors, when we've had cable-length issues we've used HDMI-over-Cat5 baluns', which worked quite well - about £30 on Amazon I think, I think you need the Cat6 version to support 4K.

 

The newer SMART models, GX included, come with built-in software, and we've also got some screens with OPS slot PCs in - I think VeryPC are still the only people who will sell you a screen and OPS PC warrentied to work together.

[Gongalong]

Desktops are definitely better, which again points at a signal power issue with newer or some makes/models of laptops.

[dhicks]

points at a signal power issue with newer or some makes/models of laptops.

 

Might that be solved with a powered docking station for a laptop? That's possibly why we found a baluns worked - separate (5V, USB) power supply to the baluns provides enough power to get the signal to the other end of the cable properly?

[chazzy2501]

fyi you can get HDMI cables that use fiber optic rather than copper. (they have source and destination on the plugs and don't cost too much more)

 

This fixed this issues with our newline RS+ TVs (as they wanted to run in 4k60) and our older copper cables couldn't quite do that.

 

They'd get fussy at about the 6m mark picture could work sometimes etc.

 

I once had amazon basics cables using optical but they've changed that (10m+ cables)

 

EDIT: found one!

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by chazzy2501

[Gongalong]

I suspect part of our problem are the wallboxes, but it's a nightmare for schools having to open up trunking and throw away the entire cable when it fails with age or gets broken.

 

Our longest cable runs tend to be 5m to a wallbox, then 2-3m to a desk. Perhaps 5m optical at least would be better? Where do you buy your optical cables from currently?

[chazzy2501]

I don't use wall boxes, I use back boxes with a brush plate (and a coat hook) or I run the cable to the desk for direct insertion or into a usbc docking station. (my favourite)

 

I did get from amazon but they don't have a category so some sleuthing is required but I got my big deal install cables from here: https://cpc.farnell.com/w/c/cable-leads-connectors/leads/audio-video-leads/hdmi-leads/fibre-aoc-hdmi-leads/prl/results?sort=P_PRICE

 

EDIT: found this on Amazon, I haven't used this brand. I'm just goin on spec.https://www.amazon.co.uk/COSEMI-Active-Optical-Displays-Supported-Black/dp/B07JGMZFXF/ref=sr_1_23?dchild=1&keywords=hdmi+aoc&qid=1632988605&rnid=1642204031&s=electronics&sr=1-23

 

The term to search for is AOC (active optical cable)

Edited September 30, 2021 by chazzy2501

[BenQ_Royce]

Hi folks,

(Anecdotally I've heard that Benq are better, but some further information either way would be appreciated)

Thanks

we can ship you a a unit to test out, and maybe combined a chat with a local tech manager? we're quite a friendly bunch, if the BenQBus is in your area a visit could also be possible to see the whole range. drop me a PM and I'll get someone to contact you, we've learnt a lot about cable lengths over the years

 

[Gongalong]

I don't use wall boxes, I use back boxes with a brush plate (and a coat hook) or I run the cable to the desk for direct insertion or into a usbc docking station.[/url]

Stupid question. How does a wall box differ ​from a back box?

 

The wall boxes our installer uses have "rats tails", so you've got a cable from the Promethean to the wallbox, a small "rats tail" cable with two more connectors, and then the fly lead cable to the desk. It's all with a view to making the cable quickly replaceable, which touchscreen manufacturers for education need to understand!

we can ship you a a unit to test out, and maybe combined a chat with a local tech manager? we're quite a friendly bunch, if the BenQBus is in your area a visit could also be possible to see the whole range. drop me a PM and I'll get someone to contact you, we've learnt a lot about cable lengths over the years

Thanks. Do Benq have a 75" touchscreen with built-in annotation and digital whiteboard? Those are the killer features that staff here have got used to with Promethean. And if the screens aren't fussy about cable length and wall boxes that would be a strong bonus.

[chazzy2501]

The BenQBus looks awesome! let us know when you ever come to Dorset!

[BenQ_Royce]

absolutely we do..... all models have whiteboarding and overlay annotation as standard features. if you need to keep it simple take a look at the RE7501. if you need mid-range features the RM702 with built-in soundbar, although with antibacterial glass and built-in co2 sensors the RP7502 is getting interest at the moment. Flightcases and our bus has all three as we don't push features you wont use.

[BenQ_Royce]

it's travelling all over the UK, it's been to Dorset recently but I'm sure it will be again soon, as well as an Edugeek first..... it will be at BETT in January and you'll be able to have a tour, join some lesson planning, as well as make bookings for your school in 2022.

 

you can find more details of the BenQBus here, It's free to visit, we just need carpark space, and mention Edugeek and I'll make sure you get looked after https://www.benq.eu/en-uk/business/campaign/education-roadshow.html

 

/Royce

[Gongalong]

absolutely we do..... all models have whiteboarding and overlay annotation as standard features. if you need to keep it simple take a look at the RE7501. if you need mid-range features the RM702 with built-in soundbar, although with antibacterial glass and built-in co2 sensors the RP7502 is getting interest at the moment. Flightcases and our bus has all three as we don't push features you wont use.

We do like to keep it simple, but annotation and whiteboard are key for us. Does the RE7501 have sound as well?

 

Can we get a quote direct from BenQ, or do we need to go to a reseller?

 

(Is the bus anywhere near north-east Hants in the foreseeable? If it can get petrol!)

[MartinT]

We've been installing Iiyama TE8604MIS and TE7504MIS touchscreens this year (17 of them) and I can highly recommend them.

 

As well as HDMI with USB for full 4K touch functionality, they support AirPlay and Chromecast for device mirroring, as well as Screenshare Pro, which is used a lot by teachers now.

[Gongalong]

We've been installing Iiyama TE8604MIS and TE7504MIS touchscreens this year (17 of them) and I can highly recommend them.

Thanks for the info. Do they have built-in annotation and whiteboard, and what sort of cable lengths and setup do you have e.g. wall box, fly lead?

[DavR]

.... if you need mid-range features the RM702 with built-in soundbar....

 

RM702 fits in quite nicely with the BENQ bus theme!

 

 

I'll get my anorak....