Netgear switches after power cut

[Sheridan]

We’ve got a good amount of S3300 netgear switches across the school which generally work well, the biggest issue is after a power cut or brief outage (of which we get a tiresome amount!) they refuse to power back on without manual intervention.

 

They do work if you pull the power lead out for at least 10 minutes and then plug it back in, but this is a major pain to do especially with where some of them are located.

 

It’s random as well, it’s not always the same ones that fail to come back on, but they’re all the same model and firmware. The firmware is also up to date. I logged it with netgear when it first happened but they just said it was something to do with the power supplies which aren’t made by them.

 

Putting a ups in the cabinets just isn’t an option due to their location and size, so I’m wondering if anyone has see this behaviour on their switches, netgear or otherwise? I’m sick to the back teeth of spending an hour sorting these out after every power outage so netgear will not be on the list for the replacements!

[dapaulio]

Unfortunately this is common with switches and power related incidents. I have always used ups or at least a surge protector as a sacrificial appliance and first line defence to the switch, servers and even computers like Epos, BMS’s etc

 

A ups with surge protection factors is your best protection from power related incidents. Generally it’s not the powercut that causes the damage it is return of the supply which spikes. This seems to trigger a lockout on some devices like switches and computers bit like a circuit breaker which is why intervention is required requires to power on properly.

 

It’s only going to be a matter of time before a power outage permanently damages your switches.

 

Switches don’t pull a huge load so a small 500va ups with surge protection would do so. Even this rated ups you would find the ups battery would happily supply most short term power outages.

You can get surge protectors which are cheaper but personally would spend that little bit extra to have the ups. Some come in really small packages so if you can fit one somewhere in your cab it will be beneficial.

 

One thing to note whilst you have protected your switches but the threat are still there but instead of your £2000 switch being hit your up to couple £100 ups is being hit instead. I used to self test the batteries periodically to make sure damage hadn’t been caused.

[Sheridan]

The problem is we literally have no space at all for even the smallest UPS - the cabinets are full pretty much top to bottom, and mounting a UPS outside means the kids will undoubtedly pull the plug!

 

We tried surge protectors (4 gang) inside the cabs but they didn't seem to help much - we seem to have power cut so the surge protector probably isn't much use in this scenario.

[dapaulio]

Can you not squeeze one in at the back of the cab in the gaps where you would likely have patch panel maybe rested on top of a switch .

 

In the cabs that I had no room in i rested a 1u ups in the base of the cab without the wings.

Or

Put a small desktop ups on top of a switch behind patch panels.

 

Is in the ceiling space an option?

 

I understand you are likely on minimal if not a zero budget but Personally I would see the installation of a ups on switch cabs a necessity so I would be asking for a budget to have the cabs replaced if they are full.

Unfortunately it take a £2000 switch to die before budget holders agree to changes like this which would save them thousands in the long run

[Sheridan]

Yeah I think in maybe half the cabs I may be able to squeeze something in - other than that I might be able to get the caretakers to 'box in' a desktop UPS - as it will be messed around with otherwise

 

A lot of our cabs were fitted well before my time, and some are in atrocious locations. The heat is also an issue in some, with 2-3 switches (inc POE) it can already get hot without adding a 1U ups in there as well!

[dapaulio]

It’s understandable... having worked in education for 17 years cabling infrastructure was a lot more expensive back then so room cabs were daisy changed off edge switch as the thought of 1 or 2 cat 6 lines with switching was significantly cheaper than throwing in x number of cat5e lines over a greater distance from the closest edge switch cab to the device location.

Because these rooms were also classroom space was significant factor so the smallest cab would be used in a corner of a room somewhere

I tried to phase them out over the last decade but as budgets and investment in ICT have become less and less it has become an impossible task to consolidate room switches back to their edge switch.

Unfortunately I can’t see any other way of resolving your problem other than my suggestion and feel your pain.

Maybe someone else may be able to chime in on other options but my suggestion would be the way I would go about the problem.

If I could have my time again and change what I did in my earlier years it would be to put more pressure on my senior management to address concerns before they become an issue as from my learning curve, they don’t give 2 sh*** about it unless it becomes a problem. And even then it’s not their problem it becomes yours.

I wish you the best of luck

[Sheridan]

It’s understandable... having worked in education for 17 years cabling infrastructure was a lot more expensive back then so room cabs were daisy changed off edge switch as the thought of 1 or 2 cat 6 lines with switching was significantly cheaper than throwing in x number of cat5e lines over a greater distance from the closest edge switch cab to the device location.

Because these rooms were also classroom space was significant factor so the smallest cab would be used in a corner of a room somewhere

I tried to phase them out over the last decade but as budgets and investment in ICT have become less and less it has become an impossible task to consolidate room switches back to their edge switch.

Unfortunately I can’t see any other way of resolving your problem other than my suggestion and feel your pain.

Maybe someone else may be able to chime in on other options but my suggestion would be the way I would go about the problem.

If I could have my time again and change what I did in my earlier years it would be to put more pressure on my senior management to address concerns before they become an issue as from my learning curve, they don’t give 2 sh*** about it unless it becomes a problem. And even then it’s not their problem it becomes yours.

I wish you the best of luck

 

Cheers - I totally agree with your points about the way some schools developed their cabling, but sadly I've also seen terrible cabinet positioning in nearly new schools as well

 

I always find I'm the last to know about any new building work/infrastructure changes - which is why networking is probably often an afterthought

Edited June 28, 2020 by Sheridan

[dapaulio]

You reminded me of a school I worked for who built a new sixth form building and completely overlooked the ICT side of it. They spent their whole budget building and kitting with furniture but failed to budget networking infrastructure, switching, Classroom cabling, and all other ICT related equipment.

No consultation with myself my ICT colleagues or anyone with any ICT knowledge it seems. When I got wind of it in the early days I was told the ICT side was included in the building tender and that we were going to recycle old hardware in to the new build.

Despite my objection they still proceeded with their plans

2 weeks before the building was due to open (already 8months overdue and after their public announcement of their grand opening) to the sixth form they delivered the bomb shell that they have not got any equipment to recycle and the cabling, projector computers etc hadn’t been done by the contractors (and wasn’t included). It was literally 12 rooms built like offices rather than classrooms. They removed the comms room from the plans to make more social space but left the switching cabinet in the middle of the social room with what networking cabling that had been done going back to this point. The builders had also thrown hardcore rubble in to the Trench dug for the fibre on top of the fibre uplink that was in flexible tubing. It was absolute hell on earth. I think back and I laugh but then all I remember we arguing with management, if they had at least consulted with us from the beginning none of this would be happening.

 

I worked day and night for 2 weeks with colleagues cabling, kitting classrooms out with usual classroom setup and wireless so they could open on time. It cost the school a small fortune to correct the mistakes made.

[Sheridan]

You reminded me of a school I worked for who built a new sixth form building and completely overlooked the ICT side of it. They spent their whole budget building and kitting with furniture but failed to budget networking infrastructure, switching, Classroom cabling, and all other ICT related equipment.

No consultation with myself my ICT colleagues or anyone with any ICT knowledge it seems. When I got wind of it in the early days I was told the ICT side was included in the building tender and that we were going to recycle old hardware in to the new build.

Despite my objection they still proceeded with their plans

2 weeks before the building was due to open (already 8months overdue and after their public announcement of their grand opening) to the sixth form they delivered the bomb shell that they have not got any equipment to recycle and the cabling, projector computers etc hadn’t been done by the contractors (and wasn’t included). It was literally 12 rooms built like offices rather than classrooms. They removed the comms room from the plans to make more social space but left the switching cabinet in the middle of the social room with what networking cabling that had been done going back to this point. The builders had also thrown hardcore rubble in to the Trench dug for the fibre on top of the fibre uplink that was in flexible tubing. It was absolute hell on earth. I think back and I laugh but then all I remember we arguing with management, if they had at least consulted with us from the beginning none of this would be happening.

 

I worked day and night for 2 weeks with colleagues cabling, kitting classrooms out with usual classroom setup and wireless so they could open on time. It cost the school a small fortune to correct the mistakes made.

I bet there's plenty of us on here with stories similar to this, unfortunately!

[Boredguy]

We got some APC BE400-UK Back-UPS 400VA and mounted them to the wall above the ceiling for those cabinets we wanted to ensure had power (and didn't have room in the cabinet for)

[Sheridan]

Thanks for all the input & ideas, I've decided to put some UPS's in in various forms (rackmount, in cupboards, in ceilings, on shelves etc etc) - every cabinet is a different challenge but I'm sick of the power cut routine we have to go through!

[ITGURU]

Every school i've seen Netgears in have had this issue or have stripped them out for several reasons. Sites now have HP or D-link and everything comes back on even if just a glitch.

[Sheridan]

Every school i've seen Netgears in have had this issue or have stripped them out for several reasons. Sites now have HP or D-link and everything comes back on even if just a glitch.

 

And to be fair, I've had many issues with HP in this school (and other schools) were they hang and Dlinks having port block failures - I think they all have their foibles

[ITGURU]

And to be fair, I've had many issues with HP in this school (and other schools) were they hang and Dlinks having port block failures - I think they all have their foibles

 

Only problem i've had with D-Link is firmware bugs i've found where Taiwan have remoted on, seen the problems and got new firmware to me within a matter of days (before public release). Can't wait their tech support.

[dapaulio]

Every school i've seen Netgears in have had this issue or have stripped them out for several reasons. Sites now have HP or D-link and everything comes back on even if just a glitch.

 

I too seen this is common in netgears but seen them on hp and other manufacturers

 

Think the issue is mainly the configuration and stability of the electric supply more than the manufacturer design

 

I suspect the switches have built in circuit breakers for the purpose of protecting the switches from serious damage.