New Home - Bailiffs

[enjay]

"No problem - come in and have a look at these letters, see if anything jumps out..I'm going to recycle them anyway.."

 

Do not under any circumstances say "come in". Offer to go and get the letters (shutting the door while you do so) if you're feeling helpful, but do not invite them in. Ever.

[markcuk]

 

Marc has even mentioned blacklisting by address which also sounds like total nonsense.

 

hey if you dont wont advice dont ask for it!

 

but when my parents went bankrupt i had to build up my credit rating because they still took into account my old parents address...after about 3 years they only use your current one.

 

just check your credit file and see what score you get if its a good one no problem.

 

i have used these in the past checkmyfile - Credit reference, Credit file, Credit score, Rating

 

mark

[torledo]

hey if you dont wont advice dont ask for it!

 

but when my parents went bankrupt i had to build up my credit rating because they still took into account my old parents address...after about 3 years they only use your current one.

 

just check your credit file and see what score you get if its a good one no problem.

 

i have used these in the past checkmyfile - Credit reference, Credit file, Credit score, Rating

 

mark

 

Mark, i'm sorry if i rubbed you up the wrong way with that comment...

 

But i was trying to get to the bottom of whether the idea of blacklisting by address was a popular misconception.

 

The lady from experian is hardly going to admit to the credit agencies cocking things up from that point of view....so it doesn't surprise me that people have had bad experiences.

 

You're right that i should just get a credit report or two to see if what my status is.

[markcuk]

@torledo :-)

 

ok mate get the credit check also helps to see if you have any redundant accounts you forgot about!!

 

mark

[speckytecky]

I had the same problem with the very first house I bought. Just retiring from 23 years in the RAF at the time. Waiting with my two teenage children to move in and the Estate Agent said there was a problem with the people selling clearing their mortgage - despite them moving to a bigger house nearby. After eventually moving in one evening I was out and my daughter had bailiffs turn up trying to gain entry!

 

Worth checking with the credit reference Agencies and I added something to the effect that any debt associated with the address was the responsibility of the previous householder - clearly stating when I moved in and became associated with the address.

Edited May 7, 2008 by speckytecky

[enjay]

but when my parents went bankrupt i had to build up my credit rating because they still took into account my old parents address...after about 3 years they only use your current one.

 

That's your parents, though, and it happened while you were living there, so it "rubs off", as it were, on you too - not the case with whichever random lived in your house previously, partly because you have the same name as your parents but not the same name as the last occupant of your house.

 

As an aside, there are steps you can take to financial disassociate yourself from your parents in times like this; a friend of mine did it when their parents' business collapsed while they were still living with them, not sure what it involved though. Doesn't sound like it is relevant to you now, though, since you've been out of their place for a few years.

[Zoom7000]

Thanks for the replies guys. It's seems a very complex and lengthy process. I'm more worried about my wife having to deal with bailiff than myself, but she says she just won't open the door!

[Sirbendy]

Do not under any circumstances say "come in". Offer to go and get the letters (shutting the door while you do so) if you're feeling helpful, but do not invite them in. Ever.

 

Not worried. 1 chap, suited up, briefcase. Pen pusher, not a heavy. No problem with that. Declared my position outside first, no issue there.

 

As to people calling on the missus..well, it's their funeral. Good luck to them, and I'll bring the mop..

[torledo]

According to the blurb on the Direct.Gov site above.. its not

 

If they can't make any kind of unforced entry, in other words no windows or doors left uopened or unlocked...then why not just not answer the door to them at all ?

 

I'm trying to figure out what the purpose of a bailiff is in situations like this if they're unable force they're way into someones home ?

 

If you're the type of person who's got something to hide for example, why not just sit tight, let them go round the back to see if there's any way they can get it, then wait while they give up and move on to the next hapless sod. They can't sit outside someones house all day now can they ?

[jcollings]

They can't sit outside someones house all day now can they ?

 

They can and they do. There was a fly on the wall series on a few years back about baliffs and they did just that - waited for people to come out etc.

[Zoom7000]

I spoke to a friend in Royal Mail who told me the "Return to Sender" system was flawed and doesn't really work. Essentially it stems from people "taking the mick" and sending legitimate replies using RTS. So, the letters end up as "dead letters" in a post office sorting centre corner somewhere. Also, I read somewhere that the opening of letters was only illegal during the stage of transit.

 

I actually got a letter from DVLA today which said, "If undelivered, please do not return to sender" yes you have read correctly, do not, and in bold too. I opened it and it was a letter thanking the addressee for informing the DVLA he was no longer in possesion of his car. Funny he didn't tell them that he'd moved house! Muppet!

 

They told me to return the letter with a cover letter stating I no longer live there anymore. Unfortunately I can't get my landlord to budge on the matter, he just said keep RTS-ing and if I get any unwanted guests, to call him.

 

Thing is, it's all good that bailiffs can't force entry and such, but I dunno what debts these fools had. It states on the Directgov website that if the debt is owed to HMRC they can break in...

 

If County Court bailiffs come to your home, you don't have to let them in.

 

They can't force their way in on their first visit, but they can enter through an open window, or an unlocked door. Forced entry includes pushing past you once you have opened the door to them or leaving their foot in the door to prevent you closing it. Such action would make the whole process illegal.

 

Bailiffs trying to recover money you owe to HMRC are allowed to break into your home, providing they have a magistrates' warrant.

 

Bailiffs recovering unpaid magistrates' court fines, however, do have the power to force entry.

 

Source - Bailiffs and debt collectors : Directgov - Money, tax and benefits

[maniac]

Remember any debt is tied to the PERSON and not the PROPERTY. (with the exception of depts secured on the property itself)

 

Baliffs cannot remove property unless they are certain that it belongs to the person owing the money, as if they remove someone elses property then this would be theft.

 

Remember they deal with this on a daily basis, and are usually only threatening if they are threatened themselves. I had baliffs turn up at my last house which was a rental property. As soon as I told them I wasn't the person involved and the person they needed was no longer a tennent at the property, and provided them with some ID (which wasn't unreasonable to ask) they left no questions asked, and apologised for the inconvenience.

 

We get letters at our current address in at least 5 different names. I write return to sender on them and post them back, but I do note the names and company names they have come from. We have had a couple of calls from other debt collectors here, but again as soon as you tell them the property is rented, and the date you moved in, they usually go away no further questions. Sometimes they'll mention one of the names I've noted down, which kinda proves the returned mail doesn't get back to it's owners!

 

Mike.

[Zoom7000]

Yeah, I'm not worried about anyone turning up when I am home, I can deal with that, ID, Tenancy Agreement etc. I just don't want any "HMRC bailiffs" breaking in when I'm not!

[torledo]

Yeah, I'm not worried about anyone turning up when I am home, I can deal with that, ID, Tenancy Agreement etc. I just don't want any "HMRC bailiffs" breaking in when I'm not!

 

I seriously doubt it's an hmrc related debt. The type of people who clear off out of a place without clearing they're existing debts will typically owen outstanding on a range of things....mobile phone bills, credit cards, sometimes council tax - although as it's a rental property i'd imagine landlord pays the council tax.

 

Is there a difference between the powers of a county court bailiff vs a magistrates court bailiff....

 

i believe council tax non-payment comes under magistrates court administration....though don't know how easy it is for the chimps to get hold of an order to enter the property forcibly from the magistrates.

 

I would imagine not very easily at all.

 

Bailiff is one of those scum of the earth jobs like estate agents and cold callers......they should all be vanquished from society until they can land proper jobs.

[Lee_K_81]

They can't force their way in on their first visit, but they can enter through an open window, or an unlocked door. Forced entry includes pushing past you once you have opened the door to them or leaving their foot in the door to prevent you closing it. Such action would make the whole process illegal

 

What about subsequent visits? If they always visit during a weekday 9-5 then most people wont be in.

 

I'm assuming your called your local council and services (telephone, gas, electricity, cable/sky, etc.) to advise them that you are the new tennant and the date you moved in. Those are debts that could be seen as being to the house as you could be using those services.

 

If the letters from baliffs / debt collectors have a company name / telephone let them know.

 

As others have said dont let anybody in, even somebody who looks weedy / selling something / trying to get you to change services could try to be helpful and hold the door for your other "vistor" who turns up.....

[jcollings]

Bailiff is one of those scum of the earth jobs like estate agents and cold callers......they should all be vanquished from society until they can land proper jobs.

 

Sorry I have to object to that statement! So are creditors not entitled to attempt to get money back? The people I know in that line of work are honest, decent people just doing a job. Surely the "scum" (for want of a better word) are the people who think it is acceptable to run up massive debts then scarper leaving the cost to be born by the rest of us!

[cookie_monster]

I personally wouldn't chuck the bailiff letters in the bin, i might open them, but i certainly wouldn't phone the poxy debt collectors to tell them the situation - it's not you're problem. Let them turn up at you're door (although i think that's unlikely to happen) and you'll have the pleasure of telling them to £$%^ off in person.

 

If you aren't going to contact the companies then don't bother opening the mail as it is illegal so you're breaking the law for no reason. I'd open them and then 'write' to them explaining the situation (and ask who they are collecting the debt for) i had a similar issue and was told repeatedly that you need to contact the company thet issued the collection order otherwise the debt collectors absolutly will not stop, ever, untill you are dead (sorry had a terminator moment there).

 

Basically my solicitor told me to just write to the company that is persuing the debt (not the debt agency) and get them to call off the dogs, as soon as there is nothing in it for the debt collectors they'll just go away.

 

 

@Zoom

"Return to Sender" system was flawed and doesn't really work

 

It works if there is a sender address inside, basically ig goes back to the local office and if they still can't get it to an address then it goes to a main office where it is opened, if there is still no clue or address then it is destroyed.

Edited May 8, 2008 by cookie_monster

[Zoom7000]

I pay the council tax. When I signed up for council tax, they told me there was no previous liabilities so I should be OK there. I dunno what other taxes the HMRC could want, if any, I just hope those letters that I RTS'd were petty bills, I know 1 was for Thames Water and I called them up saying there'd be hell to pay if they cut me off because I am all paid till Apr 2009. They said not to worry.

 

Electricity is a key meter, gas is a brand new meter that I'm still waiting for British Gas to register, they said it could take up to 12 weeks if not more. There was no previous phone, cable TV or anything else. Also, I'd be surprised if the previous residents even bothered with TV License.

 

Sorry I have to object to that statement! So are creditors not entitled to attempt to get money back? The people I know in that line of work are honest' date=' decent people just doing a job. Surely the "scum" (for want of a better word) are the people who think it is acceptable to run up massive debts then scarper leaving the cost to be born by the rest of us![/quote']

 

I agree, to an extent. Most creditors are just doing their jobs. I think the "scum of the Earth" labelling comes when they will do anything to recoup their money even if it does mean threatening/pressuring innocent people into coughing up cash they don't owe! That is were bailiffs get the bad name. But hey, I don't know any, so maybe there are some nice guys out there!

[jcollings]

I agree, to an extent. Most creditors are just doing their jobs. I think the "scum of the Earth" labelling comes when they will do anything to recoup their money even if it does mean threatening/pressuring innocent people into coughing up cash they don't owe! That is were bailiffs get the bad name. But hey, I don't know any, so maybe there are some nice guys out there!

 

Agreed - there are some bad guys in most industries and I certainly don't condone threating behaviour etc. but to label a whole group of people as scum seemed harsh to me (and yes I have had first hand experience of it!)

[torledo]

Sorry I have to object to that statement! So are creditors not entitled to attempt to get money back? The people I know in that line of work are honest, decent people just doing a job. Surely the "scum" (for want of a better word) are the people who think it is acceptable to run up massive debts then scarper leaving the cost to be born by the rest of us!

 

i don't have a problem with the creditors....it's the trained chimps who are sent to collect the money i have a problem with.

 

They pray on the confusion surrounding what the law says they can and can't do....and they tend to go round wearing uniform that makes them look very official, when infact they have about as much power as a PCSO.

 

You may have friends who are bailiffs, but they are scumbags in they're day job. I'm sure estate agents are very nice people when they're down the pub...doesn't make they're day job any less odious.

 

Yes, equally people who have scarpered leaving upaid debt are scumbags, but creditors should be more wary of who they're lending to. The whole credit system allows for ridiculously easy access to credit cards, phone contracts, car finance for people who can't or won't pay....

 

so spare me the poor hard up creditors, they've created this rod for they're back by not being careful enough. The whole bailiff are just doing they're job line i don't agree with either, they have a choice as to what they're occupation is and if they had an ounce of decency they wouldn't feel so smug. Not everyones door they bang at 6:00am in the morning is a scarpering scumbag as you put it.

Edited May 8, 2008 by torledo

[enjay]

I just don't want any "HMRC bailiffs" breaking in when I'm not!

 

HMRC recover debts using court-appointed bailiffs; if you're getting contacted by debt recovery companies, then they aren't the ones who can break in. They're probably acting on behalf of a utility company, as I think that TV Licensing people turn up with the Police.

[Sirbendy]

Not all estate agents are arses..Nock Deighton is IMO, but Harwoods staff are nothing but friendly.

 

I also pay our council tax...water is up to date (PT had a watercard, I'm going to try and talk landlord into a meter), power and gas are smartcard. Phone was cut off, but that's all sorted now.

 

About the only debts I can see that would be an issue now would be cars or any other junk..

[Zoom7000]

HMRC recover debts using court-appointed bailiffs; if you're getting contacted by debt recovery companies, then they aren't the ones who can break in. They're probably acting on behalf of a utility company, as I think that TV Licensing people turn up with the Police.

 

The letter I opened was definately a Debt Collection agency appointed by Thames Water. The other 2 identical letters that I didn't open said "Certified Bailiffs" in the Envelope Window.

[enjay]

The letter I opened was definately a Debt Collection agency appointed by Thames Water.

 

In which case all they can do is ask nicely to take your TV and laptop, if you would be so kind as to let them in. Please.

 

You could try speaking to Thames Water, although you might not get very far - it depends on the company. One utility company who sent bailiffs round to our house (for the previous occupants I should add!) wouldn't talk to me because they had passed the matter to the debt recovery agency and would do nothing further until the agency went back to them saying "the guy in the house says it isn't him".

 

Another utility company that keeps sending red bills to "the occupier" won't talk to me when I phone them up because I'm not the named account holder. Well, durrr!!

[Zoom7000]

In which case all they can do is ask nicely to take your TV and laptop, if you would be so kind as to let them in. Please.

 

Oh no they can't, cause it ain't my debt! Besides, I don't have a TV, just a LCD Monitor with TV Tuner which is my main monitor for my PC that I use to connect to the school servers at evenings, hence it becomes use for employment and so therefore cannot be taken by bailiffs anyway! And for the record, the laptop belongs to the school and it has school stamps plastered all over it! Don't you just love how the law can play in to your hands sometimes?

 

I was just a bit worried about the "Certified Bailiffs" letter. I wish I'd opened it now, but oh well.

 

I don't think the RTS system is working. I have written all over the letters, "Return to Sender - Person does not live at this address, please do not send any further correspondance" and they still keep sending letters. So, from now on, I'll deal with these myself.

 

Like I said, just don't want the hassle of possible HMRC/Magistrate/Court Bailiffs trying to break in for a debt that isn't even in my name!