Chromebook hardware - any caveats?

[localzuk]

Perfectly justified. Would you be able to PM a breakdown of how the 25% saving is achieved - I'd love to show it to a few schools to get them to open their eyes up to an alternative way of using technology than what they've always done.

I can't give exact numbers but I'll list them here, as they're all things people will consider.

 

1. We won't need such a big central server setup once we've moved over everyone to Google apps. Sure, we could do this anyway but it goes nicely hand in hand. Our existing central cluster cost us around £50,000 last time we replaced it.

2. We won't need to license as much Microsoft software. We likely won't continue with OVS-ES once we do this - instead buying targeted licenses for things we want instead.

3. We won't need to back as much up locally, so won't need such a large NAS or need Veeam any more (as cheaper software will suffice for what we have left onsite)

4. We won't need to support such a wide range of hardware and software. So won't need such a complex system like SCCM or the like.

5. We won't need to purchase as many iPad MDM licenses any more, as we'll be reducing the number of iPads we have, replacing them with Chromebooks

6. We won't need to purchase as many antivirus licenses as we won't have as many Windows machines

7. We won't need to have dedicated IT rooms, so we won't need to refurbish them any more

8. We won't need to have as many switches, as we won't need to have as many devices connected by wired network cards

9. We won't need to maintain extra "clusters" of computers for children to do reading and maths testing on with Renaissance Place.

10. We won't need to print as much, as work can be sent to children via their Chromebooks instead of via pieces of paper to "stick in their books"

11. We won't need to purchase headphones, as we'll expect children to provide their own, for use with their Chromebooks.

 

Hope that helps.

[localzuk]

Very interested in this project @localzuk can you let me know the exact model number of the Acer Flip 511 as I'd love to get a demo one in to have a play also. Have you bought your demo's or have you been loaned due to the high quantities you are looking at?

The 2 models I looked at are the R725T and the R721T. The prior is Intel, and has the option for a stylus and a camera in the keyboard. The latter is AMD. The latter is the one we're looking at as we don't need the camera or stylus and is is a fair amount cheaper than the Intel. It is more power hungry than the Intel, but Acer have compensated for this by putting in a bigger battery. We were loaned the demo units, not sold. We only got a demo of the Intel one, as the units are in short supply and pre-production at the moment.

[localzuk]

On the 1:1 - do the children/parents sign up to fund breakage. I have always wondered if they are made to pay up front, they'd take more care, but I'm not convinced. At a previous school, it was sort of 1:1 but they always stayed on site. I know quite a few school districts in the US set things up so the kids get to buy/keep the CBs at the end of a period of time - that could be an incentive to look after them.

 

We're not looking at selling them on to the children - we're including some breakages in our projected costs, and we're going to be making all parents/guardians/children sign a contract which covers wilful destruction costs. I suspect we'll have some families refuse to sign, so we'll make them leave theirs in school.

 

Are you looking at protective cases to help?

 

No. We're focusing on the build quality of the devices themselves. I may consider some form of "sleeve" cases for the children to carry them around in, but I was thinking this would be a nice bit for children to get their own to "personalise" them.

 

Finally, have you looked at lease options which might include some support?

 

We don't do leases here. They're a pain, from an accounting POV.

[PrimaryNetMan]

Bare in mind both of those models are dual core. For longevity want to be looking at quad core models with N4100 or equivalent. Oh and welcome to the dark side @localzuk

[Ditto]

I can't give exact numbers but I'll list them here, as they're all things people will consider.

 

1. We won't need such a big central server setup once we've moved over everyone to Google apps. Sure, we could do this anyway but it goes nicely hand in hand. Our existing central cluster cost us around £50,000 last time we replaced it.

2. We won't need to license as much Microsoft software. We likely won't continue with OVS-ES once we do this - instead buying targeted licenses for things we want instead.

3. We won't need to back as much up locally, so won't need such a large NAS or need Veeam any more (as cheaper software will suffice for what we have left onsite)

4. We won't need to support such a wide range of hardware and software. So won't need such a complex system like SCCM or the like.

5. We won't need to purchase as many iPad MDM licenses any more, as we'll be reducing the number of iPads we have, replacing them with Chromebooks

6. We won't need to purchase as many antivirus licenses as we won't have as many Windows machines

7. We won't need to have dedicated IT rooms, so we won't need to refurbish them any more

8. We won't need to have as many switches, as we won't need to have as many devices connected by wired network cards

9. We won't need to maintain extra "clusters" of computers for children to do reading and maths testing on with Renaissance Place.

10. We won't need to print as much, as work can be sent to children via their Chromebooks instead of via pieces of paper to "stick in their books"

11. We won't need to purchase headphones, as we'll expect children to provide their own, for use with their Chromebooks.

 

Hope that helps.

Perfect - thank you! A trio of extra things. Do you expect (or hope for) a reduced print bill. With the right culture, using Google Classroom and other apps, the need to print should lessen. It's probably true you could achieve the same with MS, but I wonder with such a project, you'll get more traction in such cultural changes. I presume you're mostly using WiFi access on the CBs - do you expect to spend much on upgrading that aspect of the infrastructure? How are you handling training of staff to the 'new way'?

[PotNoodleTech]

Yes rolling out 1 to 1 one year group at a time here and it is going well. It also helps that all of our departments are using google / google classroom as if you are not using classroom then chromebooks are glorified web browsers, if you embrace google across the school the chomebooks become immensely more useful to the pupils.

 

One thing to be VERY careful of is ongoing costs and parts availability for Chromebooks from non Tier 1 manufacturers. I've been stung in the past buying Chromebooks that look good value, only to find a year down the line that repair costs are insane, and the manufacturer refuses to allow spare parts only to be sent to us for my tech team to repair in house (as we do with all other equipment in the school).

 

Here's an example from Prowise. This is a £159 one year old device, and they want £139 to repair it. Clearly, Prowise are treating these devices as throwaway devices, not expecting you to try and keep them running long term. That is the opposite of what most schools are going to want, we want them to be able to be kept running at minimal cost for the next 5 years.

 

 

As such my priorities have changed, I no longer look for the outright cheapest price, we've learned the hard way the running costs are going to be just as important, I now also look for parts availability, abilty to order parts only (and fit ourselves), aftermarket parts support.

[Brimstone]

I can't give exact numbers but I'll list them here, as they're all things people will consider.

 

1. We won't need such a big central server setup once we've moved over everyone to Google apps. Sure, we could do this anyway but it goes nicely hand in hand. Our existing central cluster cost us around £50,000 last time we replaced it.

2. We won't need to license as much Microsoft software. We likely won't continue with OVS-ES once we do this - instead buying targeted licenses for things we want instead.

3. We won't need to back as much up locally, so won't need such a large NAS or need Veeam any more (as cheaper software will suffice for what we have left onsite)

4. We won't need to support such a wide range of hardware and software. So won't need such a complex system like SCCM or the like.

5. We won't need to purchase as many iPad MDM licenses any more, as we'll be reducing the number of iPads we have, replacing them with Chromebooks

6. We won't need to purchase as many antivirus licenses as we won't have as many Windows machines

7. We won't need to have dedicated IT rooms, so we won't need to refurbish them any more

8. We won't need to have as many switches, as we won't need to have as many devices connected by wired network cards

9. We won't need to maintain extra "clusters" of computers for children to do reading and maths testing on with Renaissance Place.

10. We won't need to print as much, as work can be sent to children via their Chromebooks instead of via pieces of paper to "stick in their books"

11. We won't need to purchase headphones, as we'll expect children to provide their own, for use with their Chromebooks.

 

Hope that helps.

Not that I'm going to change your mind but all the same reasons can be applied to 1:1 with iPads.

[localzuk]

Not that I'm going to change your mind but all the same reasons can be applied to 1:1 with iPads.

 

Not so much. iPads don't have keyboards, and they cost more per unit. They're not as useful as a 2 in 1 Chromebook.

[localzuk]

Perfect - thank you! A trio of extra things. Do you expect (or hope for) a reduced print bill. With the right culture, using Google Classroom and other apps, the need to print should lessen.

 

Yes, that is one of our goals. We print an extraordinary amount in our Trust at the moment. Most of it handouts that children simply stick in their books. Those handouts can be sent electronically with Classroom etc...

 

It's probably true you could achieve the same with MS, but I wonder with such a project, you'll get more traction in such cultural changes.

 

Aye, you could. The only difference really is the increased costs due to licensing and management of the Windows devices. A fixed £19 or whatever, for the entire lifetime of a Chromebook is favourable to the management costs of Windows machines.

 

I presume you're mostly using WiFi access on the CBs - do you expect to spend much on upgrading that aspect of the infrastructure?

 

Indeed. We have, over the last 18 months or so, rolled out Ruckus R510, R610 and R710 APs across all areas of our schools (except one of our smaller schools, which has Ubiquiti Unifi instead). We upgraded our WAN from FTTC connections with VPNs between the schools to a 1Gbit PTP connection network. So, all schools connect back to our central site at 1Gbps, and then we have 1Gbps out to the net. This wasn't done for the Chromebooks, just general needs, but it will aid our project also.

 

How are you handling training of staff to the 'new way'?

This has yet to be nailed down, but my current plan is a series of twilight-ed training sessions led by a local firm that has done a lot of this for other schools.

[fiza]

We have the Dell Chromebooks. The part such as LCDs and keyboards etc have been pretty cheap.

Where do you get your Dell Chromebook parts from please?

[Ditto]

Not so much. iPads don't have keyboards, and they cost more per unit. They're not as useful as a 2 in 1 Chromebook.

Also, with the latest Chromebooks, the Android app market is opened up. I had some involvement with iPads in the primary sector and they worked well as an educational tool, which is the most important part. However, I found app management in the GSuite/Chrome environment much more straight forward. With the expected development of ChomeTabs, whilst I like the robustness of iPads (we had minis), as much because of costs and management, I'd have to steer away from them. That said, I can see them being used in the independent sector where there's a bit more cash swirling around.

[andyt57]

I currently support 4 primary schools, two of which have replaced their Windows laptops with Chromebooks. They are not 1:1 but a classes worth in KS1 and KS2 which are pre-booked by the classes.

 

One school has had Dell Chromebooks for nearly 3 years. My only problems have been broken screens, which I can replace, and now headphone sockets are failing/getting broken.

 

The other school started with HP Chromebooks, initially 14" models. The children prized off the keys and the keyboard ribbon cable frayed inside - a known fault - so the keyboards became non-responsive. Then some newer 11" HP chromebooks last year. The biggest problem I have had with the HPs are the charging plugs and sockets. They are just not up to being removed and re-plugged by primary age children a least twice a day. So some of the newer machines will not charge as the charging sockets are broken. They have now bought some Dell Chromebook 3181 and were looking to but more but have been informed by the supplier that they can no longer get the cheap Dells, so they're now looking a Lenovo 11" models which have a USB C power connector. We'll see how that survives!

 

Andrew

[PotNoodleTech]

 

Andrew

 

Yes exactly the same problem here, the dell 3180 with the big 19.5v laptop power socket were brilliant. Every other chromebook in the world now seems to use stupid USB type charging sockets which will last 10 minutes being unplugged and plugged in 5 - 10 times a day.

 

"Designed for education" = not true.

[localzuk]

Yes exactly the same problem here, the dell 3180 with the big 19.5v laptop power socket were brilliant. Every other chromebook in the world now seems to use stupid USB type charging sockets which will last 10 minutes being unplugged and plugged in 5 - 10 times a day.

"Designed for education" = not true.

All current model Chromebooks are USB C as they can't be certified as a Chromebook by Google without it. Basically, Google give the base design spec for the machines, and each manufacturer develop their own version - but there are a bunch of things they can't change.

 

Personally, I like that they use USB C chargers. MUCH easier to source replacements. The USB C connector is a well designed connector tested to withstand 10s of thousands of uses - if your connectors are falling apart that quickly, then I think the make of device you're buying may be using poor components.

[SpaceInvader83]

We also run a 1:1 chromebook scheme, mostly HP 14's of various generations, they've held up really well and the only fault we really ever deal with is smashed screens. Some Asus one's knocking about C202's and again these seems really robust and little to report, just waiting on a demo unit of the C204 for our our next round (Updates until Jun 2025).

[SuperChris1980]

Hi

 

I can help you with this and your 1:1 scheme, here at Stone we can offer all the brand chromebooks and work with you very step of the way with regards to your 1:a scheme. Let me know if you would like me to send you some examples and case studies

[Brimstone]

Not so much. iPads don't have keyboards, and they cost more per unit. They're not as useful as a 2 in 1 Chromebook.

The keyboard argument with iPads is soo utterly mute and was shot down in flames years ago, it's not even worth debating the point with you.

[Ditto]

I missed the counter view from years ago. Could you summarise the counter-view for me and others that may have missed the argument. Cost was also mentioned - is that still a significant difference. I've an intermediate amount of experience of Chromebook management and a lesser amount with iPads. CB's management generally was very straight-forward via Admin Console as part of GSuite. For iPads, it was OK but involved several different apps. For both, I've seen staff and students get on really well with them. I had a few members of staff who were really wedded to their (personal!) iPads. They had clip on keyboards and probably broke every Data Protection policy we had using personal devices they way they did. I think the success of either was heavily influenced by the quality of support they got using the device - even a little bit of training. Just teaching simple things like using two-fingers on the touch pad to scroll was often received with absolute delight!

[FN-GM]

Yes exactly the same problem here, the dell 3180 with the big 19.5v laptop power socket were brilliant. Every other chromebook in the world now seems to use stupid USB type charging sockets which will last 10 minutes being unplugged and plugged in 5 - 10 times a day.

 

"Designed for education" = not true.

 

I would disagree. USB-C is a much better system.

[localzuk]

The keyboard argument with iPads is soo utterly mute and was shot down in flames years ago, it's not even worth debating the point with you.

Except, it hasn't has it? All the arguments I've seen to counter it have been weak or just not sensible.

 

I'll put it simply - children are required to type up work. A physical keyboard with proper haptic feedback is better for fine motor control development than tapping a touchscreen which doesn't give accurate haptic feedback.

[localzuk]

Cost was also mentioned - is that still a significant difference. I've an intermediate amount of experience of Chromebook management and a lesser amount with iPads.

 

2 in 1 flip style Chromebook + management license = £228.

An iPad is more than that on its own (last price I got for a 2018 iPad 9.7 32GB was £250). Add a case and MDM and the price is considerably more. For a device with no keyboard but does have a touchscreen and can run tablet apps etc...

[SpaceInvader83]

2 in 1 flip style Chromebook + management license = £228.

An iPad is more than that on its own (last price I got for a 2018 iPad 9.7 32GB was £250). Add a case and MDM and the price is considerably more. For a device with no keyboard but does have a touchscreen and can run tablet apps etc...

 

Out of curiosity would you mind sharing which model?