TS External Connector License?

[cookie_monster]

I'm looking into Terminal Services for external users (staff and maybe students) i've been told that for staff you can buy a number of concurrent licences but for students you need to buy a 'named' licence for each student.

 

I've had conflicting information from two different companies can anyone help explain how it works?

 

This will be for a 2008 TS server.

 

Cheers.

[DMcCoy]

What applications do you want to use? As office gets complicated.

 

The exact wording of the various external connector licenses mean it is only valid for those not part of the organisation. So for students to access a server remotely you would need that many per user licenses. You can get free external connectors for example, but only if you have already bought all those per user licenses.

 

I don't think we came up with a use for the external connector.

 

Office will need a license for each and every machine that accesses it - there are no per user licenses for it.

 

EDIT: See later post.

Edited May 2, 2008 by DMcCoy
Fix

[Geoff]

My understanding is that because pupils are not employees, the normal CALs do not cover them when they are off-site. As such, you need an external connector license for each of your TS servers. There is another thread on the general subject here.

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/networks/6014-remote-access-how-2.html

 

I seem to recall we had a similar discussion about the same licensing situation with Exchange.

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows/6399-outlook-web-access-trial.html

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows/13929-exchange-2007-smtp.html

[DMcCoy]

My understanding is that because pupils are not employees, the normal CALs do not cover them when they are off-site. As such, you need an external connector license for each of your TS servers. There is another thread on the general subject here.

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/networks/6014-remote-access-how-2.html

 

I seem to recall we had a similar discussion about the same licensing situation with Exchange.

 

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows/6399-outlook-web-access-trial.html

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/windows/13929-exchange-2007-smtp.html

 

 

What I don't get about the external connector, why do microsoft give them away free but *only* if you already have all the per user licenses if they meant you did not need the licenses?

 

Exchange CALs *include* OWA so if you license it per user you don't need anything else

[DMcCoy]

Ok, it seems that you can use the external connector for students, it's just that when you do you can't have it for *free* (http://www.microsoft.com/education/serveraccess.mspx) I think the wording on the external connectors pages is rather non specific about what qualifies.

 

So this still leaves out staff and office.

 

I think it's simply going to work like this, if you want users to have access to *Microsoft* office remotely then you should run away screaming now. If you use another office application then you can get away with the various external connectors (only exchange and windows server really).

[Ric_]

The way I understand it is this:

 

* Option 1 - Buy 'per user' CALs for staff and students and everytbody can access the server(s) from wherever

 

* Option 2 - Buy 'per device' CALs for every access device and then a ECL for each terminal server you want to access from devices offsite

 

There is also the consideration of Server CALs too.

 

The cheapest option from what I can see is to get per user CALs for everything. Of course Office doesn't do per user so the access devices must have Office licenses to be legal using that (I'd lean towards OOo myself).

[cookie_monster]

1. Ok we will be using Office 2003 so what are the problems there?

 

 

2. So no one has heard that you have to buy a licence for each student that want's to use it from home "by name".

 

Cheers.

[DMcCoy]

1. Ok we will be using Office 2003 so what are the problems there?

 

 

2. So no one has heard that you have to buy a licence for each student that want's to use it from home "by name".

 

Cheers.

 

1) Every machine, and that means every *single* machine that connects to TS and uses office will require an office license.

 

There are some limitations, for 2003 you can use a volume license or office professional license. I don't think the others have remote use rights. The problem is you can no longer buy office 2003 licenses. Office 2007 licenses all need to be the same type (ie Vol) and you can only use the vol edition on TS. While Office 2007 ultimate qualifies for remote use, it is not the same as a 2007 vol license.

 

Other ways to get licenses for students would be the home use rights that are part of software assurance and schools agreement, still very expensive though.

 

The use of office remotely will technically cost many thousands of pounds.

 

2) Not heard of it, might be more related to work at home or home use rights for some educational licenses (office) or software assurance.

[cookie_monster]

1. Ok every single machine on our site has an office 2007 licence (volume agreement) but we use 2003 so we should be ok there right?

 

I'd like to use OO for home use but most of the 6th form will want it and they use Access so i don't think it will be an option.

 

2. I'll get back to them and ask about that, last time i got one of those 'it's a very grey area replies'.

[wesleyw]

1. Ok every single machine on our site has an office 2007 licence (volume agreement) but we use 2003 so we should be ok there right?

 

 

Right the license will cover you for using 2003 however you will have to buy more licenses one for each of the concurrent connections that will use the terminal server unless the user at home already owns a copy.

 

2. I'll get back to them and ask about that, last time i got one of those 'it's a very grey area replies'.

 

Never heard of it either though I think you can now buy Student CALs for Sharepoint and Exchange so you may be able to do the same with terminal services this would reduce the cost somewhat.

 

Wes

[DMcCoy]

1. Ok every single machine on our site has an office 2007 licence (volume agreement) but we use 2003 so we should be ok there right?

 

Yes, if you want to access the TS from *those machines*. Which is no use at all if you want people to access the TS from *other machines*

[DMcCoy]

Right the license will cover you for using 2003 however you will have to buy more licenses one for each of the concurrent connections that will use the terminal server unless the user at home already owns a copy.

 

Not concurrent *anything* for office, its only per device that uses office, even if this is a remote connection or not. You licenses the local machine accessing the TS server for office.

[wesleyw]

So you have to buy 1000 licenses even when only 500 users will ever access them at any one time? M$ no kidding!

 

 

Wes

[cookie_monster]

So you have to buy 1000 licenses even when only 500 users will ever access them at any one time? M$ no kidding!

 

Yes that's what they were saying so even if there were only a maximum of 50 incoming connections we would need a 1000 licences. WTF!!! Sigh

[DMcCoy]

Yes that's what they were saying so even if there were only a maximum of 50 incoming connections we would need a 1000 licences. WTF!!! Sigh

 

For office, yes. For exchange/windows and other apps no. It's just microsofts desktop applications that have such a restrictive license. It's where they make a lot of money.

[cookie_monster]

That's not what i was told this was specifically for external connections which is why i wanted clarification.

 

If each student had a copy of office then we wouldn't have an issue right? (but the student version doesn't count)

[DMcCoy]

That's not what i was told this was specifically for external connections which is why i wanted clarification.

 

If each student had a copy of office then we wouldn't have an issue right? (but the student version doesn't count)

 

yes, if they had a qualifying copy of office for each machine they access the TS from then it would be fine. Student edition may or may not qualify. There's a table somewhere but I can't find the link.

[Ric_]

So you have to buy 1000 licenses even when only 500 users will ever access them at any one time? M$ no kidding!

 

And you might not even be allowed to use the licenses on home machines... I'm sure that there's a clause that states that the machine being licensed must be owned by the organisation holding the volume license agreement (i.e. they must be school machines).

[GrumbleDook]

yes, if they had a qualifying copy of office for each machine they access the TS from then it would be fine. Student edition may or may not qualify. There's a table somewhere but I can't find the link.

 

The student version needs to be office pro 2007 for student to qualify. This then gives rights to access Office pro 2007 and below (including Office 2003)

[cookie_monster]

Right i've not delt with this area of licencing for a while so i'm sketchy at best. Is a Windows External Connector Licence different to a TS External Connector Licence?

 

I priced up a Windows External Connector Licence from Pugh (approx £250) and thought we were in bussiness untill someone said i actually need a TS one that cost's much more. (I'm feeling a bit confused, you could take a HND in MS licensing)

Edited May 2, 2008 by cookie_monster

[linescanner]

Arrrggghhhh

 

The problem with this is, as a supplier I have spoken to M$ 3 times about this..........

 

and got 3 different answers..............

 

The really worrying bit is I spoke to the same guy twice 2 weeks apart and guess what.....again different answer.....

 

We ended up going to an M$ educational reseller who said do it another way.

 

I am now back to being confused.

[cookie_monster]

lol this is the problem i'm talking to two Citrix / TS suppliers and they're telling me different things

[CyberNerd]

Are any of the resellers or MS licensing 'experts' willing to put anything in writing? I think it would be fair enough to quote a qualified MS licensing expert

in the event of a school being investigated for license breeches because they would likely look very silly trying to prosecute a school if their own experts say they are licensed.

 

edit: I assume the companies giving advice actually have the relevant MS qualification

[linescanner]

Tell me about. As Sun Ray and SGD supplies it sucks.

 

Why you talking to Citrix and not us ????? (tongue nearly in cheek)

[cookie_monster]

That would be nice wouldn't it. Ms licencing is deliberatly esoteric i'm sure so they can manage to get more money out of you at a later date once you've aready invested to much to back out otherwise they would just have a straight forward requirements list. Grrrrrrrr

 

 

"Why you talking to Citrix and not us "

 

I spoke to a few people and visited a few sites and it seems very good (a bit on the expensive side) but good. We were thinking about 2008 TS but it still doesn't seem to scale well and i just haven't time to investigate 2X. Novus recommended a couple of schools who seemed very impressed with and they seem like a very professional outfit.

 

Tell me a bit about your offerings linescanner, if you have any. No rush i'm off now.

 

We'll be looking at a 15 client system for the Library just to trial basic apps, Office, IE and a few others with an eye to expanding next year (if we like it, which from what i've seem we will) to a few classrooms and external access for SIMS.

Edited May 2, 2008 by cookie_monster