Government Bans Fax Machines In The NHS

[mavhc]

There is a SIP FAX standard, but seems like hardly anyone uses it

[mukz]

He also said that people can choose to ask for mail through post as usual

[Alis_Klar]

He also said that people can choose to ask for mail through post as usual

 

Yeah I got the impression they were banning the use of Snailmail for sending docs between hospitals GPs etc. Not patient communications.

[XiJ]

It’s for patients too but e mail will become the default - you can still get snail mail. The report I read was for GP surgeries so not sure if it includes hospitals.

 

My wife works in a GP surgery and the amount of letters she sends out is crazy. It would save the nhs millions not just in direct costs but also the time staff spend on it.

 

And as a patient I’d much prefer e mail etc. I can already order prescriptions and book appointments through an app which is great. As long as we sill get to actually have some human contact when we need it I’m happy for this change.

And I think it’s the right thing to do going forward.

[Alis_Klar]

There needs to be a simple (optional) “NHS” app that can do most patient interaction.

 

Not least to be a simple National Brand and so that GPs and NHS trusts don’t need to write their own.

 

Having separate apps for each trust isn’t ideal as when trying to find an app on the Apple App Store it notoriously hard to tell the difference between similarly named apps.

[XiJ]

Agreed. But would you trust the government/nhs to deliver on this? Or not sell our data to insurance companies?!

[jmak]

Agreed. But would you trust the government/nhs to deliver on this? Or not sell our data to insurance companies?!

Evidence is mixed, but they can do it when they try. Have you applied for a passport recently? You can do the whole thing on a smartphone, including taking the picture, fill in the details and passport turns up a couple of weeks later. It felt like they'd made actual progress!

[matt40k]

Defo agree the passport process is getting better and better.

 

There needs to be a simple (optional) “NHS” app that can do most patient interaction.

 

Not least to be a simple National Brand and so that GPs and NHS trusts don’t need to write their own.

 

Having separate apps for each trust isn’t ideal as when trying to find an app on the Apple App Store it notoriously hard to tell the difference between similarly named apps.

Like we have a standard app for school - parent communications. Oh wait...

Can but dream

[mavhc]

Don't need an app, just email, no one cares if it's secure, no one's hacking into the internet backbone to read your emails. Apps are terrible ideas, that's how you get 17 different messaging systems, all terrible in their own ways, and worse in aggregate.

 

Just make a website

[matt40k]

Don't need an app, just email, no one cares if it's secure, no one's hacking into the internet backbone to read your emails.

I can't decide if you are being sarcastic or not because this is exactly what was happening. This was the whole reason Google and the big players started encrypting data end-to-end, the NSA had physically hacked the backbone connection between data centres. It was \ is actually a rather elegant solution. You basically want to replicate their data, so you hack the link that sends the incremental data changes to DR site.

 

Really, really wouldn't want anyone to use email for sensitive data. It isn't secure. From an admin point of view, I wouldn't allow it to happen because I wouldn't want to be responsible for the data - I don't want to be able to to see it, I don't want to put myself at risk if I don't have to.

 

Website \ App... meh whatever. Point is every school\doctors should have a digital solution, gov builds\buys 1 so its cheaper then 17 odd companies building the same thing but completely isolated and you remove\cut the profit aspect. Heck use WhatsApp.

[mikeprice]

OK - make an app - but that doesn't solve the problem as not everyone has a smart phone

 

and if my phone is anything to go by - not everyone has space left on it to have another app - and how many would I need - probably one for the GP, one for the hospital in the same county, one for the hospital nearest (which is the most common to go to)

Oh - and if I had sick kids - one for Alder Hey the children's hospital

and maybe one for Broadgreen so someone can get the messages for Mother-in-law when she needs to go to the Cardiac unit

Oh - hang on - maybe on for the brain injury unit at Walton (reason are private but exist)

 

Hmm

Or maybe the NHS can come up with a central system that works - but the history of the NHS coming up with centralised system doesn't inspire confidence

 

or use email and people can use any WWW machine

but still have post as an option for those who are not online

 

stll not sure about security and the appointments though

[matt40k]

This isn't ever gonna be a app only option. Personally I like the fact I can order a replace inhalator at 3am with a few clicks on my phone when I find out its running out rather then forgetting to phone up in the morning. I like the fact I can login to the website and see all my medical history. I don't like the fact if I go somewhere else they can't see all of my records cause they are on a different system and then they write a letter to my GP which someone then has to manually scan and attach to my record, manually OCR - part because they use different codes or some rubbish.

 

Appointments is a interesting one - the missing appointments is shockingly high, why on earth they aren't all sending out text \ email \ automated telephone message reminders - with a easy option to cancel - is beyond me.

[Arthur]

Appointments is a interesting one - the missing appointments is shockingly high, why on earth they aren't all sending out text \ email \ automated telephone message reminders - with a easy option to cancel - is beyond me.

I agree. It's a no brainer. If my NHS dentist can do it, I don't see why my surgery can't.

 

OK - make an app - but that doesn't solve the problem as not everyone has a smart phone

There's always going to be people without X, Y or Z which is why there should be more than one option provided.

 

Not everyone has a car to drive to the doctors surgery either.

 

and if my phone is anything to go by - not everyone has space left on it to have another app

Create an 'Instant App' or Progressive Web App (and stick it in the Google Play Store). Problem solved?

 

Bonus: the PWA also works on desktop PCs.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Arthur

[mikeprice]

This isn't ever gonna be a app only option. Personally I like the fact I can order a replace inhalator at 3am with a few clicks on my phone when I find out its running out rather then forgetting to phone up in the morning. I like the fact I can login to the website and see all my medical history. I don't like the fact if I go somewhere else they can't see all of my records cause they are on a different system and then they write a letter to my GP which someone then has to manually scan and attach to my record, manually OCR - part because they use different codes or some rubbish.

 

Appointments is a interesting one - the missing appointments is shockingly high, why on earth they aren't all sending out text \ email \ automated telephone message reminders - with a easy option to cancel - is beyond me.

 

My GP's place send out reminder text messages unless you opt out - which is only sensible - why would you not do that???

[mavhc]

I can't decide if you are being sarcastic or not because this is exactly what was happening. This was the whole reason Google and the big players started encrypting data end-to-end, the NSA had physically hacked the backbone connection between data centres. It was \ is actually a rather elegant solution. You basically want to replicate their data, so you hack the link that sends the incremental data changes to DR site.

Exactly, the state doesn't need to hack the backbone, they are the NHS. Plus as they're all encrypted now it doesn't matter.

 

Really, really wouldn't want anyone to use email for sensitive data. It isn't secure. From an admin point of view, I wouldn't allow it to happen because I wouldn't want to be responsible for the data - I don't want to be able to to see it, I don't want to put myself at risk if I don't have to.

 

All you need to do to have secure email is enforce TLS when using SMTP, NHS could do that easily. Problem solved.

 

PWA is a website, so yeah, have a PWA

[matt40k]

Exactly, the state doesn't need to hack the backbone, they are the NHS. Plus as they're all encrypted now it doesn't matter.

?? - Pretty sure China \ US would love to get their hands on other counties health records. And I wouldn't assume it's all encrypted now either!! It's kinda the reason BT are ripping out the Huawei infrastructure.

 

All you need to do to have secure email is enforce TLS when using SMTP, NHS could do that easily. Problem solved.

 

Yer, it was called GCSX - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/securing-government-email. Works well for communicating with other government agencies, but individual...

My GP's place send out reminder text messages unless you opt out - which is only sensible - why would you not do that???

 

That's my point! I don't get why they aren't all doing it!

[howartp]

I don't think I have ever sent a fax. I wouldn't know how they work...

As technician on a week-long three-site christian conference (EP for those who know it), a guest speaker left his notes at my site when he moved to the next site.

 

He was a known controversial speaker so I had to fax the only copy of his notes across to his next hotel then destroy them so his opponents couldn't get hold of them.

 

I diligently did so.

 

12 blank sheets of white paper were received at the hotel...

Edited February 18, 2019 by howartp

[mavhc]

?? - Pretty sure China \ US would love to get their hands on other counties health records. And I wouldn't assume it's all encrypted now either!! It's kinda the reason BT are ripping out the Huawei infrastructure.

 

Well, everyone's an idiot for not insisting on open source software to run their networks.

 

Yer, it was called GCSX. Works well for communicating with other government agencies, but individual...

 

Nah, it's just TLS between email servers, everyone does it now, just enforce it and your email is secure.

[matt40k]

Well, everyone's an idiot for not insisting on open source software to run their networks.

Open source != secure. Just look at OpenSSL \ Heartbleed.

[mavhc]

Open source != secure. Just look at OpenSSL \ Heartbleed.

 

Closed source != secure either, but you can't check it.

 

Which is why they're removing the software authored by Chinese programmers. They can't check it.

[matt40k]

Ironic that Huawei has the most "open" hardware on the market at the moment. Think every security agency is poking it right now.

[mavhc]

Problem is they'll be delivering closed source software updates for the next 20 years, at any point they could change how their computers work, and it would be hard to tell without the source code. Also they could just refuse to implement better encryption or similar, and then you'd have to replace all the hardware again.

[matt40k]

Again, openssl \ heartbleed. Even with the source code, you can still slip in a "bug". Also the location of the developers doesn't really matter, any developer could be turned. We're passed the point anyone can truly understand the full stack. Look at the Hard drive that had a crooked firmware added to them. It's all about the trust.

[mavhc]

True, better make everything open source, otherwise how can we trust you, why are you hiding something?

[matt40k]

...Fax me over a signed NDA, then we'll talk