University outreach programe hardware

[steve]

We've had a request come in today to provide costs / options for a proof of concept, to facilitate our Physics school taking laptops to schools to undertake an outreach program and also out reach work on on our campus.

 

From my time working in secondary school IT, I know the issues that can come from someone rocking up with a load of laptops expecting them to just work. So I thought I'd run this by you all to gather your thoughts.

 

The initial request is for 16 laptops that can be taken to schools, preconfigured with Windows, a small selection of software (5 apps and office) and access to internet based resources.

 

Initially I thought we might be able to do an remote access setup, but one experiment requires an interface with a local webcam and it also doesn't answer the on campus usage.

 

Another option may be to provide schools with links to the software (its all open source), maybe some pre packaged MSIs, that schools can deploy to their own systems. Along with instructions / information / related files. This way schools would have the option of using their own devices.

 

The main issues I envisage with laptops are:

 

Internet connectivity at schools - it varies from school to school. For those with https inspection the install the certificate to allow https Interception certificate. Does this require admin privilege?

Power - if being used for lengthy periods or if brought uncharged they might need plugging in.

Weight / size - assuming we split these into 2 x 8 rugged trolleys, the weight of each will be between 20-30kg depending on the laptops bought. That's not too easy for some people to lift into the back of a car, if both will fit anyway.

Refresh - If we rebuild these automatically overnight, we may get performance issues due to updates and any tweaks will need to be applied after each use.

 

Has anyone had good or bad experiences of universities bringing hardware like this to your school?

 

Any suggestions, comments or ideas all welcome.

[Meldrew]

Wow. Bit of a nightmare. My gut feeling is that it's really not worth the work involved, but some questions to clarify what we're talking about.

 

Would it be a single visit to each school? How long would the laptops be there for? An afternoon, or several weeks?

 

The HTTPS inspection certificate will require admin elevation to be installed. This will be different at every school. Wifi may be setup as 802.11x, so that's a problem in itself.

 

Never mind issues getting the laptops to where they're needed. Stairs, etc.

 

Meldrew.

[Steve21]

Not so much uni wise, but we had an external company do similar linked to some robotics programme.

 

One of the two requested software installed onto our own devices, another one used their own laptops etc but in the carry cases (think like the ipad "baskets" but for laptops, guess that depends how bulky the laptops are anyway though).

 

Power wise I don't see it being an issue, as that's really down to the school to sort out, no different to if you were just going to present with a laptop/projector you'd need power etc.

 

Internet wise they used a pre-configured VPN wireless router so basically as long as the network supported the VPN the laptops/robots would connect to their own wireless signal and get out that way. Thus no inspection should be required etc (The max you'd have to get them to do is allow the VPN IP potentially).

 

In regards to the rebuilding, it depends what you're actually trying to run/do, but why not just have a pre-setup image that's cloned? Disable updates etc (until it's updated on a scheduled basis). They won't be domain joined etc if they're off-site so shouldn't be any issues with using cloned GUIDs etc. Then a rebuild will already have the software updated (to said date) and any performance configs done.

 

Steve

[elsiegee40]

My initial thoughts:

• • Weight - in the vehicle, lugging them to a room that’s bound to be furthest from the main entrance and not on the ground floor... this is H&S (and vehicle choice)
   
  
• • Wifi - will the school have a guest network? How long will it take to connect each laptop one at a time? Will the filtering let them do what they want to do? Is the bandwidth up to it?
   
  
• • Insurance - dropped, keys picked off, etc
   
  
• • Charging
  

 

Honestly, developing resources that schools can access remotely from their own IT provision is going to be a whole lot more sensible

Edited July 31, 2018 by elsiegee40

[christhetech]

I was involved with a local authority project a number of years ago where they were giving "disadvantaged" children laptops to assist with their studies. It was being led by the Social Care directorate & I remember being sat in the initial kick off meeting with the head of the directorate and telling him that what they were planning was a bad idea.

They bought around 150 laptops, to give to children who may not have access to IT equipment at home. They were given to mainly children in the care system, plus a few traveller children who were in the area at the time, so that they could access the VLE to assist with their studies. Sounds good so far, a really positive move. However, they were also giving them the machines with an o2 SIM card installed, can you see where this is going? The HOD told me that they had done a deal with o2, whereby the SIM cards could only be used for data. We also installed a piece of software on the devices, I can't for the life of me remember what it was called it was so long ago (asavie I think), that would force the internet connection to be directed to the council's internal network and therefore utilise the council's existing web-filtering solution. Now do you see where this is going?

Laptops were given out and within a week, there were half a dozen spotted for sale on eBay. Then after just over a month, the first bill came in from o2, and it was £18k more than what was previously agreed with them, so was queried. It turns out the little angels had worked out that they could take the SIM card out of the laptop, put it in their mobile phone and enjoy totally free calls and internet access on their mobiles, completely free of any filtering.

 

The HOD was going nuts and called an immediate meeting to go out and gather them all back up, as they were costing an absolute fortune. Of the 150 or so that they initially gave out, in just over a month, they managed to recover less than 100 of them. Some had been sold, some had been"lost", some of the travellers had moved on and taken the kit with them. Hate to say I told you so, but...

 

The council cancelled the SIM contracts with o2 at significant cost, as they had to buy out the remaining 22 and a half months or so of the 24 month contract that they had signed. The project cost the council an absolute fortune, and for what? Just over a month of the little darlings having internet access provided to them.

[difinity]

A slightly different scenario to yours but I provide 8 laptops for a customer of mine who runs a training centre.

They are two boxes of four laptops. Whilst I can lift 6 in a box, 8 would be too heavy. They are HP CQ61 so not the lightest or smallest of laptops, I drive an estate car with a big boot, four boxes would not fit without the seat going down.

I have an 8 gang extension socket to they are used and charged at the same time.

No issues with wireless, they key was entered once.

I have business insurance on my car and my specialist area is laptop/hardware repairs although in the two years I've been doing it there's been no damage, but then these are adults I'm dealing with.

[MatthewL]

Do you have a remote access solution already in place for users from home?

 

Could they just not login at the school and login to this and access what they need?

[mavhc]

Guess it depends on the length of time of interaction with a specific school.

 

Would be awesome to work upstream with the open source software creators to add an msi build to their process, and then chat to the school IT people about them having the software installed, if it's an msi and well tested, for me I'd be more than willing to install it, basically a 5 min job.

 

Added advantage that the schools can continue to use the software after you leave, not just a distant memory but an ongoing improvement.

 

Quite a lot of OSS is very simple to package, although some of it likes to write to its own folder, which is so 1995, might have to set defaults to use %homedrive% and %homepath% etc.

[steve]

Thanks for the comments and feedback so far, lots of food for thought.

 

A bit more info I got today. The plan is to do 2 or 3 visits each week to different secondary schools each time to try and encourage students into taking science - specifically physics.

 

The computer based part of the days activities will last about 1 hour, 1 laptop or tablet between 2 pupils. It would be a mix of using installed applications and web resources (if wifi is available). The specific applications we've been told they require are:

 

Visual Molecular Dynamics: VMD - Visual Molecular Dynamics

Light Grapher: LightGrapher - Planetarium Activities for Successful Shows

MINERVA: MINERVA

Arduino ADE: https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/p/arduino-ide/9nblggh4rsd8

Microsoft Data Streamer: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=56976

 

The quality of some of the apps is shocking but it does what they need to do.

 

There is a requirement for Light Grapher (flash application?!) to interface with a webcam and for an Arduino to be programmed via USB, so I think the remote desktop option is out.

 

I can see pro and cons for both taking devices and using local system and most of the cons are around keeping the local IT informed about whats happening. If I had a pound for every time a guest speaker / presenter / engineer had turned up unannounced....

[mavhc]

VMD: Needs OpenGL and/or CUDA, and a password to dl.

Light Grapher: Flash

Minerva: Java

Arduino: Win10 UWP store app

Data Streamer: exe that tries to dl a vsto, and fails on my computer, proxy settings maybe, thanks Microsoft, if only you'd invented an easy to deploy install system, and then used it

 

Yeah, bring your own laptops.

[Fazza]

Would one of the newer Lynx tablets be up to running all your software? If so they're lighter than a laptop so easier to carry around. A small/medium size suitcase (with a bit of padding inside) is ideal for carting up to 8 of them around (easy to move if you get a suitcase on wheels with an handle).

 

What I would do is install Windows, all the software they need (create an image) and let them log on as local admin so the schools can do whatever they like to them to get them to work on their network.

 

When the laptops come back to you, just re-image them. I've not used programs like Clonezilla for years but there may be a way of using something like that to store an image of the laptop on a hidden partition or something so when you get them back you just restore the original image without the need to connect to a network etc. - if this is possible you might even be able to automate it via a USB stick you could give to the department.

 

If you have some money to spend on this project you could maybe use HDGuard to restore the computers back to your original image after a school has finished using them? - https://www.hdguard.com/

[christhetech]

Would Deep Freeze be a feasible solution for restoring the machines back to their original state?

I've used it before for public access machines in libraries and it's quite simple to use and manage.

[Fazza]

Would Deep Freeze be a feasible solution for restoring the machines back to their original state?.

 

Sounds exactly like what HDGUard does - I guess test them both and then see which is the cheapest!