SIMS + Terminal Server

[GrumbleDook]

Yep .. using SGD or other similar technologies you don't even have to have them on the same network at all ...

 

If you can afford it and have a decent company to support it.

 

(ps The order should have been faxed over, Andy) ;-)

[cookie_monster]

We had our networks split and only teachers PC's could see accross to the admin domain which students couldn't log onto. Then one day the LEA told all schools that they had to flatten their networks. OH

[fmathieson]

One important thing for us to consider with running SIMS on an x64 OS is that the OS can't run any 16bit app.

 

These include the older Launcher modules (we still use Personel for really old info) and also Nova-T (Timetabling) to name but two.

 

 

Frank.

[GrumbleDook]

Nova 6 and personnel 7 are no longer 16 bit ... I honestly can't think of any section of SIMS that should not work on x64 ... if there is we haven't found it yet.

[Tiger]

GrumbleDook: Yep .. using SGD or other similar technologies you don't even have to have them on the same network at all ...

 

If you can afford it and have a decent company to support it.

 

OK - so how much are we talking about??

[GrumbleDook]

Are we just talking about the use of SGD or talking about the whole Thin Client setup with Terminal Servers.

 

We went for a solution that fitted a number of objectives but as part of a long term approach (ie 5 years+) to ensure sustainability as well as flexibility.

 

At the end of this summer we will have a total of 140 thin clients, 7 terminal servers (2 for staff and 5 for students), Sun Rays and SGD via 2 Sun servers.

 

We are then adding a change to our WLAN to enable 2 separate WLANs. The interesting one in this project is the 'hotspot' that students can bring their own devices in and after registration will have all web traffic redirected to a specified server on 443. This server runs SGD and after authenticating the user has access to the relevant TS box over 443.

 

All in, this will have set us back around £50,000 include network hardware (inc support for 3 years), the servers, the clients, the installation and management. The annual management costs are around £3000 but that also includes warranties,

 

It then allows me to have any wireless device to connect to our network and access the TS via SGD, the staff accessing the WLAN via a different SSID (with a different security credentials to go with it all) and can access SIMS via SGD rather than having to have it installed on their laptops. It also give remote access to files and software from home for staff and students.

 

I can then add devices to the network at a reduced price ... and the devices I do add will last longer than our present 5 year planned refresh.

 

This is before we talk about reduced power requirements saving money ...

 

Whilst this does not satisfy certain aspects of certain security regimes (NSA best practice recommend that all traffic between the delivery device and the reading device is encrypted to silly level and relies on the reading device having a software client to manipulate the data in such a manner that the memory stack couldn't even be interpreted to get information from it ... but those folks are plain paranoid!) it does for us.

 

Over all we expect a year on year cost saving of £6000 for years 2-4 of the project, £3000 in year 5 (server refresh means that the initial purchase may require additional servers for capacity over and above that planned) but £10000 to £15000 for subsequent years depending on damage to clients. This is outside of software refresh which is part of a slightly separate strategy, but software requirement may force earlier server refresh (either as upgrades or complete refresh).

 

I am presently working on a full set of analysis sheets on our projected 5 year purchasing and refresh policy so some figures are a little rough and ready, but seemed to be in the right magnitude.

[Tiger]

GrumbleDook: Are we just talking about the use of SGD or talking about the whole Thin Client setup with Terminal Servers.

 

We went for a solution that fitted a number of objectives but as part of a long term approach (ie 5 years+) to ensure sustainability as well as flexibility.

 

At the end of this summer we will have a total of 140 thin clients, 7 terminal servers (2 for staff and 5 for students), Sun Rays and SGD via 2 Sun servers.

 

We are then adding a change to our WLAN to enable 2 separate WLANs. The interesting one in this project is the 'hotspot' that students can bring their own devices in and after registration will have all web traffic redirected to a specified server on 443. This server runs SGD and after authenticating the user has access to the relevant TS box over 443.

 

All in, this will have set us back around £50,000 include network hardware (inc support for 3 years), the servers, the clients, the installation and management. The annual management costs are around £3000 but that also includes warranties

 

Wow - £50,000!!!

 

How much is just SGD?

[linescanner]

@Tiger

 

That all depends on what you want.

 

To put you in the picture, we supplied the solution for GrumbleDook.

 

There are a number of factors governing cost. It is a modular solution so you can start small and grow it easily as funds and requirements dictate.

 

The factors that govern the costs are:

 

1. Licensing options (2 main ones for schools)

2. Concurrency requirements

3. Who is going to use (Just Staff, just students or both)

4. Tin costs (We use Sun servers which are buy 1 get 1 free on Matching Grant. Last application has to be with Sun by 20th May ordered by 20th June)

 

If you want some detail shout and we can look at it based on your specific requirements

[drewp]

I'm finding it hard to convince our Director of Studies that using a Terminal Server is a good idea.

 

We have a split network and He wants Teachers to start to access SIMS.net on the Admin network which is behind a Firewall. The best way I can think of is to have a Terminal Server behind the Firewall with a Port redirection allowing RDP's to the Terminal Server (rather than removing the domain on the second network and then making a single domain)

 

Would anyone here be willing to speak to me or our Director of Studies about your experiences with SIMS.net in Terminal Sessions?? From this thread I have gathered it needs 4GB of RAM and 30 connections per server. His main concern is that SIMS.net if fragile and Captia have told us that there is no support available for Terminal Servers.

[adamf]

Thats interesting that Capita say there is no support for TS. I was speaking to our Project Manager at Capita who told me that he believed that pretty much the whole of oxfordshire are using a TS solution to access SIMS - don't take my word for gospel - thats what he said!

[GrumbleDook]

No support for SIMS.net on terminal servers? Next they will say they don't support it on Citrix ... and I know 2 arms of Capita that do the above.

 

The main issues with supporting it on TS is that the way people lock down TS boxes varies ... and this adds a level of work that they cannot sustain, not when the applications are client / server based the way they are.

 

If you are using TS then be ready to also have a few other boxes with the client running on for testing and for some staff that are on it permanently (timetabler, attendance staff, etc).

 

I am more than happy to have a chat about the use of MIS on TS. Drop me a PM and I'll pass on how to contact the school.

[drewp]

Thats interesting that Capita say there is no support for TS. I was speaking to our Project Manager at Capita who told me that he believed that pretty much the whole of oxfordshire are using a TS solution to access SIMS - don't take my word for gospel - thats what he said!

 

I saw earlier in the thread that this was mentioned, perhaps He has old information? Is there any chance that you could give me your Project Manager's contact details?

 

Part of my problem is that I have until now had nothing to do with SIMS.net and I feel that I have been thrown in to the deep end on this. I have used Terminal Servers in industry before I joined the School, so I’m getting frustrated with all of this!

[drewp]

The main issues with supporting it on TS is that the way people lock down TS boxes varies ... and this adds a level of work that they cannot sustain, not when the applications are client / server based the way they are.

 

If you are using TS then be ready to also have a few other boxes with the client running on for testing and for some staff that are on it permanently (timetabler, attendance staff, etc).

 

I am more than happy to have a chat about the use of MIS on TS. Drop me a PM and I'll pass on how to contact the school.

 

All our users who need to use SIMS.net permanently are connected directly to the Admin Network. I think our goal is to start allowing Teachers to access SIMS.net to use the assessment modules and report writing modules.

[Gatt]

We are still loking at using SIMS via 2008's RemoteApps.. once we get a decent server for it.

It works fine on our 2003 TS - even over VPN..

We'd like to put TC's onto every teachers desktop but the holdup is the SmartBoard problems at present as we are using Debian TC's - theres another post somehwere on this..

 

The main benefit for SIMS via TS is forcing everyone out when a SIMS update is required.

[Ex-MGSTech]

We are still loking at using SIMS via 2008's RemoteApps.. once we get a decent server for it.

It works fine on our 2003 TS - even over VPN..

We'd like to put TC's onto every teachers desktop but the holdup is the SmartBoard problems at present as we are using Debian TC's - theres another post somehwere on this..

 

The main benefit for SIMS via TS is forcing everyone out when a SIMS update is required.

 

been playing with Server 2008 and SIMS and PARS as remote apps this week, believe it or not I have 2008 running on VMWare on a HP DL380 G4 with 4Gb RAM!

So far I have SIMS and PARS running as remote apps fine (Although only in a small test enviroment) I can also access the web TS via our cisco Web VPN, although I have some issues with the path as clients do not have access to the internmal DNS

 

Both SIMS & PARS work well over RDP using either RDP 6 or 6.1 (Vista & XP SP3) users dont like the double login, however i think as a security measure its a small price to pay!

 

Steve