Where do current network and classroom management tools fall short?

[EmBM]

Hi all,

 

I run a software development company, and we're looking into the possibility of developing a network/classroom management tool, aiming to provide similar functionalities to existing solutions like LanSchool, Impero, so on and so forth. With this in mind, where do you feel that current, existing, solutions fall short? This could either be in terms of missing features, or a feature that is implemented poorly. We're also particularly interested to hear how you deploy these solutions across your network, and whether you feel this process could be improved? (For example, do you currently use configuration management tools like DSC, Puppet, Chef, Ansible, to ensure that software is installed across your machines, GPO, etc) - which of these would you like to see support for?

 

Nothing is set in stone, but we're currently thinking that use and management by teachers and staff would be done through a web portal, rather than through software installed on their machines - do you see any pitfalls with this idea in your environment?

 

Additionally, what are your thoughts on an on-premises server vs a hosted service in the cloud? We're wondering whether admins will have qualms about data protection issues if a network management service is hosted in the cloud, but we're happy to go that way if the desire is there.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Edited March 18, 2018 by EmBM

[Edu-IT]

How would the tool work if the school lost internet?

[EmBM]

How would the tool work if the school lost internet?

This would be the biggest caveat with pursuing the cloud-based software route, the software would become hobbled in the event of the internet connection being lost. I'd envisage that in the event that the school loses connectivity, the clients fallback on some configurable behaviour, perhaps trying to contact some sort of onsite failover (although this would somewhat negate most benefits of having a cloud-based solution in the first place), and preferably revert any obstructive action like locking a screen. I'm happy to hear any ideas you might have on how to gracefully handle this scenario.

 

In the case of an on-premises solution, the web console would be hosted on the school's internal network - presumably in the same place that the server the clients connect to is hosted, so losing connection to the internet wouldn't affect the application's performance.

 

Thanks!

[dhicks]

where do you feel that current, existing, solutions fall short? This could either be in terms of missing features, or a feature that is implemented poorly.

 

Features implemented poorly: working client-side software for all platforms. To be fair, probably likly to be the main bulk of any software development project, and tricky to debug cross-platform code for a client that's likly going to need very platform-specific hooks for every different deployment, but you can't really have a decent classroom management system without supporting every client a school might use (Windows, Mac, iPad, Android, ChromeOS).

 

Features that tend to be missing from most educational software: OAuth-based logins (via at least Google and Office 365, which most schools these days will at least be planning to use one or the other of) and syncing of data directly from a school's MIS or third-party system (Clever.com, Wonde, Salamander, etc). I want teachers to be able to sign in to a management console with their usual Google/O365 logins and instantly be presented with information on the children they actually teach, not to have to set that up manually.

 

Schools tend towards GPO for installing software on Windows clients (or install software on reimaging a PC), or simply walk round and install stuff manually. Most schools who deploy some kind of mobile devices (iOS / Android / ChromeOS) would use a Mobile Device Management (MDM) system of some kind, or Google's admin console for Android / ChromeOS devices. I would think that very few schools would be using Puppet, Chef or Ansible - the DevOps mindset hasn't really made to the education sector yet.

 

As pointed out above, Internet connectivity might be a concern. For us, it probably isn't - I'd be happy with a web-based management console and no onsite hardware or VM to manage, but I can imagine other schools wanting on-site provision. As this sounds like something you haven't actually written yet, it might be an idea to arcitect your system so an on-site install is as easy to set up and manage as a cloud-based setup. That might even mean that you install and configure a VM on-premisis for a school, with the school having no direct access to the VM itself, just the management console. The school has peace-of-mind in case of an Internet outage, and you know that no grubby oik of a network manager has been tinkering with any settings.

[EmBM]

Features that tend to be missing from most educational software: OAuth-based logins (via at least Google and Office 365, which most schools these days will at least be planning to use one or the other of) and syncing of data directly from a school's MIS or third-party system (Clever.com, Wonde, Salamander, etc). I want teachers to be able to sign in to a management console with their usual Google/O365 logins and instantly be presented with information on the children they actually teach, not to have to set that up manually.

 

Thanks for your input - it's really helpful.

 

So it sounds like integration with Azure AD / the Google equivalent from a cloud perspective would be beneficial to those who now use some sort of cloud provider in tandem with an existing on premises AD install? Would you envisage a teacher logging and seeing information for the current class they're teaching (I guess this would be the ideal scenario), or simply being able to search through a filtered selection of students which contains those they teach? We've never done an MIS integration, but this seems to be a sensible step to take to allow "class" views. I'll take a look at some of those 3rd party solutions to see if it'd be possible to integrate through them, rather than a MIS directly like SIMS. Do existing solutions do this (well)?

 

We're hoping to make a product that's extensible and configurable remotely (GPO, script, however) to minimise manual intervention in setup and management. Deploying a VM seems like a sensible way to achieve this on-site, I know ESX supports things like appliances which might fit this bill, I'm not sure if HyperV has an equivalent.

 

Thanks again!

[dhicks]

So it sounds like integration with Azure AD / the Google equivalent from a cloud perspective would be beneficial to those who now use some sort of cloud provider in tandem with an existing on premises AD install?

 

No, simpler than that - allow people to login to your system via OAuth "Login with..." Google / O365 / Twitter / Facebook / GitHub / etc buttons you see on some websites. The school network administrator doesn't have to do anything (or get involved or, really, know anything) about it, and it removes a barrier of entry for people using your system. Schools will take care of syncing user logins to Office 365 or Google, you don't have to integrate with Azure AD.

 

Saying that, matching class / other pupil data up to teacher logins is a separate issue, that's where those third-party services might come in more useful. Or, of course, you could go by group membership in Office 365 / GSuite. I've not tried integrating anything with those third parties yet, although Wonde looks pretty comprehensive.

[EmBM]

Or, of course, you could go by group membership in Office 365 / GSuite. I've not tried integrating anything with those third parties yet, although Wonde looks pretty comprehensive.

Group membership would be a simple way to start off at least, and would allow you to see things on a class-level, if it works as I'm imagining it.

[dhicks]

Do existing solutions do this (well)?

 

We're looking at GoGuardian at the moment:

 

https://www.goguardian.com/

 

This is for ChromeOS management only at the moment, but it does seem to at least handle OAuth logins in a sensible manner - just seeing what it's facilities are now for syncing user data.

[EmBM]

Thanks - I'll take a look at GoGuardian. I think the biggest challenge will be comprehensive platform coverage - it seems like even using some sort of multi-platform language (eg: Java) will be somewhat difficult, due to the tighter integration needed with the OS (eg: locking the screen, disabling mouse, etc on Windows), so it may be a case of supporting a number of codebases for different platforms.

 

I think initially it would make sense to target Windows due to its widespread use, and then possibly a mobile platform or ChromeOS, followed by MacOS (in my, somewhat limited, experience, MacOS tends to be deployed less widely than Windows in education environments).

[AlanD]

I'm not saying that the existing tools are fine...or that they are not overpriced....or even that there is isn't room for a competitor...because there is nothing quite like a competitor to sharpen up what these products deliver. But I can't help but feel that you are coming from behind...and without some kind of "edge" its going to be difficult to break into the market and difficult to make up lost ground.

 

I use netsupport (rebadged as RM Tutor)....and it does the job of viewing class screens, limiting which applications (to one if necessary) , controlling access to the internet...white board...etc. etc... and doing same - albeit with cloud management isn't alone going to get me (nor anyone else I guess) to change.

 

Mobile device "supervision" on the other hand might make me take notice...because RM tutor can't see ipads are doing...but I'm guessing that is because iOS doesn't allow that to happen...but its certainly something class teachers repeatedly ask for....So an app that would allow a BYOD device to "join" a class and become locked to that class and under the supervision of a controller during that lesson until "released" would be great. Maybe its possible with Android....

[EmBM]

Visibility on BYOD / mobile devices is a great idea. I'll have a look at the iOS SDK and see what's possible. I believe several 3rd party MDM solutions exist for iPhones, iPads, etc, so it seems like this lower level control should be possible to some extent. I know Android has "Device Administrator" permissions for apps like this, I wonder if iOS does something similar.

 

Do you have any thoughts as to whether a cloud solution would make sense in your situation, or give you any added benefits that aren't currently offered by NetSupport/RM Tutor?

 

Thanks!

[AlanD]

Never quite understood the fascination and obsession with the cloud. Some seem to think its way we must go...or its cloud based then you must go for that. To be honest I don't care if its cloud based....but I do care how easy it is to deploy and use. If cloud delivers that in a way not otherwise deliverable - then great. I like like the way - for example google classroom any teacher can set up a class on their PC/device...get a code number ...and when students typew that code number into their device...get access to the shared files/folders you created for them....doesn't need any infrastructure...other than wireless or 4G access. If they can get monitored in a similar fashion by joining a class...great..

 

Language lab type functionality would be good....to pair devices automatically - or manually for conversations...to listen and add your own answers to questions in an audio file...etc.

[mavhc]

The thing that Impero seems to do way more than the others is advanced keyword blocking.

 

Language Lab stuff looks like any easy win, simple and the current applications are expensive/terrible

[eviljimsmonnkey]

I recently put my money (my schools money) behind a new product called Senso. seems to tick most of the boxes for you and well worth a look. was really quick to deploy across a network and you can manage other sites without any need to set up trusts. i have used Impero for the last 7 years and Ranher Tutor before that. This beats both of those hand down. worth a look at least http://www.senso.cloud

jim

[markwilfan]

I recently put my money (my schools money) behind a new product called Senso. seems to tick most of the boxes for you and well worth a look. was really quick to deploy across a network and you can manage other sites without any need to set up trusts. i have used Impero for the last 7 years and Ranher Tutor before that. This beats both of those hand down. worth a look at least http://www.senso.cloud

jim

Made by Jon valentine off of impero fame

[eviljimsmonnkey]

i like to believe that jon left impero just to put right all the things that i was finding to be a hinderance in Impero and make this Shiny new product called Senso just for me. it is awesome though!

[Mkjarred]

After reading this I’ve signed up for a trial of senso.cloud. I have to say so far I’m really impressed with how well it works.

[markwilfan]

@eviljimsmonnkey and @Mkjarred - hmmmmmmmmmmmm Senso employees perhaps?

[mrbios]

@eviljimsmonnkey and @Mkjarred - hmmmmmmmmmmmm Senso employees perhaps?

 

I'm no senso employee but i would (for the most part, bar one frustrating issue we're currently trying to resolve) echo their words.

 

Jon is bloody fantastic by the way.

[Mkjarred]

@eviljimsmonnkey and @Mkjarred - hmmmmmmmmmmmm Senso employees perhaps?

 

Nope, network manager at a special needs school. I’m only on the free trial at the moment but was just very impressed with the service

[Steve21]

Personally I was hoping Senso would be as good as has been mentioned on here (When we were looking at classroom monitoring early in the year), yet found I couldn't even get a reply for a quote from their web-form in weeks when we asked for official pricing.

 

Doesn't really matter how good a product is behind the scenes if you can't get any support/info on it at the time you want info on it (Ok maybe it's an odd occurrence in regards to others having a good experience, but certainly doesn't give a good view to new customers despite the glowing references from "new members")

 

Steve

[mrbios]

Personally I was hoping Senso would be as good as has been mentioned on here (When we were looking at classroom monitoring early in the year), yet found I couldn't even get a reply for a quote from their web-form in weeks when we asked for official pricing.

 

Doesn't really matter how good a product is behind the scenes if you can't get any support/info on it at the time you want info on it (Ok maybe it's an odd occurrence in regards to others having a good experience, but certainly doesn't give a good view to new customers despite the glowing references from "new members")

 

Steve

 

Try emailing [email protected] he was my pre-sales contact.

 

Michael Payne has been really quick to respond to helpdesk tickets when i put them in too (of which i have probably annoyed the hell out of them with about 15 support tickets in 2 months for feature requests and other support requests...not nessecarily a bad sign of the product, just that we want to use some features that aren't released or we're beta testing modules that are near release) and I'm in direct contact with Jon Valentine at the moment as we're resolving one major bug that none of his other sites appear to be experiencing, he's been great about ensuring things are as we expect them to be. More work to be done on it next week with a bespoke build of the client he's made for us to do some debugging.

 

The mark of a good product is how it's dealt with when it goes wrong (ideal world, it would never go wrong though ), and they've really impressed me on their response there.

Edited June 8, 2018 by mrbios

[ewanc1234]

We haven't had any issues getting in contact with them, however we have been waiting for the broadcast feature to be released (I think its in testing or just been released) before we purchase it.

[mrbios]

We haven't had any issues getting in contact with them, however we have been waiting for the broadcast feature to be released (I think its in testing or just been released) before we purchase it.

 

That feature is done i think, though in its current state the machine you want to broadcast has to be a part of the group that you're broadcasting to. It's my understanding that within the next few weeks it'll be possible to broadcast direct from the console without the teacher PC being a part of a student group for example. (I think it's going to be a chrome addon/extension, but don't quote me on that)

[mavhc]

Hmm, I see a little more activity on the senso forum, but not much, are most people just using email? How's the keyword blocking now compared to Impero? Can I block a word for a group, in url/window title? I can do this on a timed basis?

 

Also how is update working now, seemed a bit weird it wasn't just automatic