drbill28 Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Hello, Using Windows 10 Education CU 1703. I have sysprepped images using copy profile. I'm seeing an odd behavior with logon. Logon times can be 3-4 minutes for first logon. I'm using copy profile and have the Windows Apps completely removed except Edge and the App Readiness service disabled. By GPO I disable the sign on animation, I also have verbose logon turned on. However, when I log on with a user it does obey and not show the signon animation but the verbose logon isn't. It shows the usual "Just a moment...". Once that user logs in next logon the verbose logon message show and login is fast. Also then if I log on as any user first logon is under a minute and verbose logon is working. I'm not sure what Windows is doing here. I figured if that worked I would try an auto logon during the deployment process, that does not work to remedy it. Any ideas on what to look for? Edit: I did check GPO processing and it is processing the policies and not the reason it's slow, processing time for GPO is about 15 seconds. Edited July 7, 2017 by drbill28
XiJ Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 I found first Win10 Login slow regardless - even on 1607. Must say I've not looked on details as I'd skim read it's pretty standard! After the first login no problems.
Arcolite Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 I've seen this too, but I haven't started to explore the reason. My brief research of things to try appear to point towards Windows 10 installing the AppX packages during logon. Customising the Default User profile seems to solve the issue https://4sysops.com/archives/improving-windows-10-logon-time/
ebelshaw Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 How big is the profile that is been copied on first login?
Tefters Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 (edited) Welcome to standard Windows OS practise now, it's been like this ever since Windows 8 and is here to stay. I'm guessing you have come from Windows 7 or worse... XP... There is no improving this, first logon on of a user profile on a new machine will take 3 to 4 minutes on a HDD, about 2 on an SSD, subsequent logins are lightning fast like 10 seconds. It's all due to the new AppX amalgamation and regardless of removing the AppX and Provisioned AppX packages there is no way to change it. I have spoken to several Microsoft OS developers direct in the states and without going into the full blurb there is no changing it. #LongLiveLabComputers! Microsofts view nowadays is that you logon to a computer and that's it, they don't look into first logon scenarios anymore the same way that they promote not turning off your computer anymore, hibernation is the future in their eyes... Edited July 7, 2017 by Tefters
drbill28 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Posted July 7, 2017 Hello, The profile is about 270MB. That's not the core issue. It's only first logon for the first person, doesn't matter who. After that anyone has a faster logon even if it's their first logon.
drbill28 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Posted July 7, 2017 My default profile is customized with no apps and the apps are already removed for all users and removed out of the repository. It seems it effective on only the first logon of the system overall. After that it's fine for anyone. I have App Readiness service disabled but it only brings it to about 2-3 minutes at best. After that first logon overall, first logon is fast for anyone. It's acting like it's going through the whole thing but it shouldn't be.
Tefters Posted July 7, 2017 Posted July 7, 2017 Hmmmm... ok. With SCCM you could of done a task sequence after the build to auto logon once and logoff
drbill28 Posted July 7, 2017 Author Posted July 7, 2017 I tried an autologin in my sysprep. Automation in GSS won't let it complete. So I set it during task deployment. It works but it doesn't fix the problem. Only works if I log on manually.
free780 Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 @Tefters So do MS think everyone is doing 1:1 ? So roaming profiles seem to be depreiciated. UEV will roam settings. So basically back to local profiles as appx seems to break on mandatory. Is it a ploy to move everyone to SSDs?
Tefters Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 SSD's are the way forward no doubt, I have 5 in my home pc and buy them for machines in school however........... Disk space becomes an issue in lab environments. I run local profiles with full folder redirection except for start menu which works great and appears to be the best solution having testing mandatory and roaming as well. Each profile sits around 180mb give or take locally however when you have 1500 students potentially logging onto machines you eventually run out of space by the time you account for OS, Apps and Windows Updates. My base WIM is 40gb and that's just Windows, Updates, Office and Adobe suite! (Extracted that's nearly 75/80gb). This is all based off 120gb SSD's which if you look at HP and Dell are all they offer in the enterprise market. Other than that it's 500gb HDD which is the go to at present for labs as the enterprise Desktops won't handle 2 drives either. It's worth noting I'm talking about SFF pc's here as space is a premium where I am. @free780 I have been to several conferences over the last 4 years in reading at MS uk head office as well as closely follow the Microsoft roadmap and since Windows 8 and the introduction of AppX it has completely fubared first logons and as Microsoft are looking at the bigger market where everyone has a device and uses just that 1. Their belief is that education is going complete cloud and that people will use dummy devices to login to office 365 for the private stuff. They are not thinking at all outside of their bubble. Look at business now, they are dealing with all the sh*tty AppX stuff all over their machines and screaming about it too. The loss of productivity due to twitter app etc... or is this now considered the norm?! I'm not even that old, 34, however I feel that Microsoft and this new generation thinking is just too outrageous at present. Schools can't afford 1:1 unless they are private or very well funded academy. My schools catchment has such a high percentage of free school meals so you get the picture here... Don't get me wrong though I do still love MS to a certain degree and think the office 365 offering is fantastic for education however trying to train old school to use new school is painful, very painful! And as for education going mostly Azure... I think they very naive there too. Only pay for what you use, you seen how some of the education applications have been programmed? What about SCCM? Offsite build platform? Hosted Skype4Business ain't cheap either. Microsoft are touting Azure to their resellers that keep calling me up saying "Azure, great pricing, way forward" and then when you finally site down and crunch the numbers... Yeah... OK... Do they forget that the UK are so far behind on reliable fast speed connectivity and where it is present costs a premium £££ unless you are ultra lucky, hopefully dark fibre changes that in the upcoming years... even then there is still the internal network... #MorningWallOfTextOver Sorry
free780 Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 Good points. 1. Azure seems overpriced with very little benefit over on prem. 2. Legacy Win32 apps as MS see them are still used widely and are why Windows has the market dominance. 3. 1st login may be quicker with azure AD and Windows 10 S but Autodesk, Adobe are not going to put there apps in the store. I can't get users to install programmes from the Software Center in SCCM as they are too used to the administrator/user model. As always it's a bit of a mess. 1st login will depend on lots of factors: GPO's l, scripts, Antivirus etc. But 4 mins is too long in a hot-desking environment. Due to the budget pressures now we may see 1:1 with parents contributing to the costs. Buy that does leave schools in needy areas in a vulnerable state.
Sheridan Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 We had this initial very slow login on a batch of w10 PCs and after much checking we found it was the firewall service running at a solid 50% or more for a good 5 to 10 minutes after boot. The first user always copped the long login but by the time they'd logged out and the next user logged in it had settled down. We found this by using the task manager and ultimately disabling the firewall service in those PCs, worth a try?
free780 Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 That does lower security. If you move to PCs being in standby/hibernate it can cut down on login times as prefetch has already happened. I suspect this is what MS do internally. But you need enterprise level PCs with Windows 10 driver support.
3s-gtech Posted July 9, 2017 Posted July 9, 2017 First logon (local profile) on my Windows 10 machines is sub one minute, and much less with mandatory profiles. All on SSD. I haven't done anything that special - many apps are removed from the install wim, the profile is refined, the firewall is disabled. 10 can be made to work for you, but it's a lot of work. Took me two years until I was ready to deploy it, and I know I'll still hit snags (like lock screens and WSUS checkins still).
gshaw Posted July 12, 2017 Posted July 12, 2017 (edited) Since 1607 logon speed has been much better and my latest 1703 image pushed out via MDT logs in under 30 seconds (Samsung Evo SSD). I do have a couple of settings left on from imaging that seem to help (disable first run animation, DesktopSwitchTimeout set to 0) https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/mniehaus/2015/08/23/windows-10-mdt-2013-update-1-and-hideshell/ Just looking to see if the switch timeout setting has any other side effects, the only thing I can see so far is that some scripts may still be running when desktop appears. All crud apps removed by Powershell script during imaging. Image is built from clean MS media, I don't manually capture a base image as it looks to cause more hassle than it's worth. Edited July 12, 2017 by gshaw
mavhc Posted October 27, 2017 Posted October 27, 2017 1703 original wim, used dism++ to remove a lot of provisioned apps, takes 45 seconds for first login, 15 for second, including printer GPP etc, on a core2duo. 30 for first and 7 seconds on a core i5. Both (the same) SSD
RLR Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 I hear some people say the apps re-appear after some windows updates. Is this true?
3s-gtech Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 Not seen that at all with 1703, which we've used from release until the latest CUs, so don't think it's the case. I don't know if it'd happen if you did an in-place upgrade to 1709 - maybe.
mavhc Posted October 30, 2017 Posted October 30, 2017 1703 original wim, used dism++ to remove a lot of provisioned apps, takes 45 seconds for first login, 15 for second, including printer GPP etc, on a core2duo. 30 for first and 7 seconds on a core i5. Both (the same) SSD I meant 1709 of course.
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