Replace ageing MERU wi-fi

[kennysarmy]

Our wi-fi is getting near to renewal, the controller and AP's having been installed in 2012.

 

Controller is a Meru MC3200 with 51 AP320's.

 

We're a SWGfL school with a Smoothwall appliance doing our web-filtering.

 

Any recommendations on what to replace this with and someone local to Gloucestershire to do the necessary install, setup, testing etc.

 

Thanks.

[NB9457]

In for Unifi, amazingly cheap, easy to deploy and can handle big loads. Also easy to install, maybe consider a gradual deployment yourselves? You'd save thousands all in going Unifi at least

[AlanD]

First you need to ask what it is you want to achieve. Your devices already does "n"...and you are probably saying to yourself that you want "ac". Any why? Because you are wanting and expecting faster networking, higher capacity/bandwidth etc. Now - I'm not saying that you won't achieve that - but its not going to be as revolutionary as you might imagine. "ac" is only going to be faster (a) when you use wide channels - perhaps 80MHz or even 160MHz and (b) by using more streams © MU-MIMO . Cynically - I might point out that (a) you can't have wider channels because you have already have high density of access points so classrooms to the left, right above or below you are going to generate a lot of co-channel interference. (b) More streams is not going to work - because even some of your new tablets and laptops don't do more that 2 streams - and probably don't use the 3 streams you have now (are they 3 stream APs?). © And your devices generally don't support this either - apart from maybe BYOD mobile phones. OK, Yes - I know the MERU single channel architecture is going to allow you to try to operate all the access points on a single wide channel. But there are lots of cases where schools are finding they need to abandon this - because using separate layers (or channels) each of which are small channels - tends to deliver a more satisfactory result to classrooms in close proximity.

 

If you are not already 1AP per classroom - I would work towards that first....possibly by keeping/moving the MERU kit to one part of the school and buying new kit for the other half. 5GHz does not work well through most walls - so it doesn't matter what new kit you buy - unless the AP is the classroom you are going to lose a very significant part of your bandwidth. The days of needing wireless surveys are long gone.

 

Unless you have a shed load of money (and it sounds as if you might - because you are asking for a supplier to install, setup and test......its not exactly rocket science to slap a few access points up) I'd be taking a close look at Ubquiti - and buying a handful of Access points to test. Cheap as chips, and no annual charges and they do all the essentials like band steering (if you must) and Air time fairness, etc. Does the premium kit from Meraki, Aruba, Ruckus, Aerohive and Uncle Tom Cobley and all do better? Yes - but you would need to do some accurate timings to know this - and no user would be able to tell which you were using unless you told them.

 

Don't take my word for any of this. ...Don't take anyone else's word either - especially not anyone trying to sell you their kit. Get some test kit in. Most are happy to supply test kit for free (Meraki will give you an AP just for doing this, so with Aerohive....and others will loan kit to you). Be prepared to be blown away by how neat Meraki's interface behaves - but sit down before you look at the pricing because its going to shock you.

 

Everything should work with smoothwall - which I think is brilliant with BYOD because you can run it as a DHCP and RDIUS server so users sign in once with their device - and that's it. No captive portal stuff or anything to worry about.

Edited February 28, 2017 by AlanD

[kennysarmy]

First you need to ask what it is you want to achieve. Your devices already does "n"...and you are probably saying to yourself that you want "ac". Any why? Because you are wanting and expecting faster networking, higher capacity/bandwidth etc. Now - I'm not saying that you won't achieve that - but its not going to be as revolutionary as you might imagine. "ac" is only going to be faster (a) when you use wide channels - perhaps 80MHz or even 160MHz and (b) by using more streams © MU-MIMO . Cynically - I might point out that (a) you can't have wider channels because you have already have high density of access points so classrooms to the left, right above or below you are going to generate a lot of co-channel interference. (b) More streams is not going to work - because even some of your new tablets and laptops don't do more that 2 streams - and probably don't use the 3 streams you have now (are they 3 stream APs?). © And your devices generally don't support this either - apart from maybe BYOD mobile phones. OK, Yes - I know the MERU single channel architecture is going to allow you to try to operate all the access points on a single wide channel. But there are lots of cases where schools are finding they need to abandon this - because using separate layers (or channels) each of which are small channels - tends to deliver a more satisfactory result to classrooms in close proximity.

 

If you are not already 1AP per classroom - I would work towards that first....possibly by keeping/moving the MERU kit to one part of the school and buying new kit for the other half. 5GHz does not work well through most walls - so it doesn't matter what new kit you buy - unless the AP is the classroom you are going to lose a very significant part of your bandwidth. The days of needing wireless surveys are long gone.

 

Unless you have a shed load of money (and it sounds as if you might - because you are asking for a supplier to install, setup and test......its not exactly rocket science to slap a few access points up) I'd be taking a close look at Ubquiti - and buying a handful of Access points to test. Cheap as chips, and no annual charges and they do all the essentials like band steering (if you must) and Air time fairness, etc. Does the premium kit from Meraki, Aruba, Ruckus, Aerohive and Uncle Tom Cobley and all do better? Yes - but you would need to do some accurate timings to know this - and no user would be able to tell which you were using unless you told them.

 

Don't take my word for any of this. ...Don't take anyone else's word either - especially not anyone trying to sell you their kit. Get some test kit in. Most are happy to supply test kit for free (Meraki will give you an AP just for doing this, so with Aerohive....and others will loan kit to you). Be prepared to be blown away by how neat Meraki's interface behaves - but sit down before you look at the pricing because its going to shock you.

 

Everything should work with smoothwall - which I think is brilliant with BYOD because you can run it as a DHCP and RDIUS server so users sign in once with their device - and that's it. No captive portal stuff or anything to worry about.

 

Thanks for your reply, very useful.

 

We do budget each year to replace items installed 5 years previous, that includes computers and most of the core infrastructure such as physical servers, storage, backup solutions and wireless provision.

 

We find this works well for us and means we never get hit in a particular year with a huge bill when everything starts failing at the same time! It keeps things running well and it aids the school in it's budget planning.

 

We are not 1AP per classroom, I'd estimate we've about 85 classrooms covered by 51 AP's - these are mostly in rooms but with a few in corridors between classrooms.

 

Whilst I agree it's not rocket science to "slap a few access points up", I do require a number of SSID's setup with integration to Active Directory, we run separate VLAN's and also this needs to be integrated with the filtering device so it's a little bit more than plugging things in, sadly. And if I have the budget it makes sense to purchase a complete solution from provision to installation.

[Net-Ctrl]

If you would like some information/pricing on what was Ruckus has to offer please do let me know, and we will help however we can. We can get loan equipment to you, discuss your deployment options, run a free precitive survey etc.

 

We have installed and support Ruckus into over 400 EDU sites around the UK. We will work with you to ensure our solution is offering what you require, not only for now, but for years to come. I can also put you in touch with local schools/colleges that we have worked with if required.

[AlanD]

Slightly concerned that you are confused about budgets. Budgets do not mean that you must spend them. Indeed some of the time you might need to spend more - because of unexpected expansion, extra kit, etc - which is counterbalanced against the fact that sometimes you find you can spend less. I've had laptops expected to last 4 years fall apart after 2 years, and desktop PCs last 7 years that we originally thought would not last 5. Senior Management are very happy when you say I am going to delay upgrading this or that because actually it works fine for now.

 

So unless you are absolutely clear what improvements you want to gain - do not simply replace Access points (or anything else) because some arbitrary timescale is up. You get no brownie points for that.

 

You might well find - for example - that user experience would be better spending money on laptops (or tablets) which had network cards that supported 3 streams rather than 2 (and were ac ready) than changing the access points which might bring no improvement at all to existing users.

 

I'm glad to know you have a number of SSIDs - and run separate Vlans - becuase that is the way I would advise anyone to run things. (Keep in mind that too many SSIDs are not a good idea because they take take to advertise themselves away from actually transferring data). i'd look at the speeds that devices which don't have an AP in connect at. (there are lots of mobile apps or speed testers). If you are not getting good 300Mb/s on an "an - 5Ghz " connection I would make it a priority to get 1AP per classroom....

 

Integration with AD is easy if you use smoothwall - just make the access point a radius client from smoothwall - which then handles the authentication from AD which I am guessing its already connected to.

 

If you are going to install wave 2 "ac" access points - bear in mind that you may require 2 x CAT6 cables to each access point. And you might require "at" capable PoE switches (or injectors) - or else sacrifice some of the benefits of the that new ac" AP. Some manufacturers claim their AP will run off "af" PoE - and fail to mention it will be only with one of the two raiods working, half the streams, or without the second cat6 cable connected, or without that BlueTooth beacon working.

 

...but I will keep coming back to ..."YOU" need to test replacement Access points. Personally - as far as functionality and performance is concerned - I don't think there is much to choose (having been through this myself) between the premier league players - although I do like the Meraki interface a lot...and I do think that the MERU single channel architecture can deliver amazing results provided the collision domain does not have too many access points (i think there are some horror stories when single buildings have tens of access points..) Ruckus will deliver a better signal in a weak area - but getting 2Mb/s rather than 1Mb/s isn't going to solve the problem of not having 1 AP in each class room. We use Aerohive - although we manage them through the command line because we are far to poor to pay their cloud management costs, But whatever you test you do don't omit the Ubiquiti ones - although you might struggle to get a company to supply and set them up - because they are essentially designed for you to do yourself.

 

I think I would start with buying a single or set of Ubiquiti APs for a block of well used classrooms. Make the SSIDs the same and tie them in through smoothwall for AD authentication. If you decide later you don't need them they are easy to sell on ebay for near the cost you pay for them. Use them as a benchmark (a) against your existing kit and (b) against any supplier trying to sell you new kit. Don't get taken in with a single AP test with it set up for a 160MHz channel - because you are not going to be able to use that channel width when you have a cluster of them. You might to use 80Mhz channels, especially if you can use DFS channels, in which case - and providing your end user devices support it - you will see an improvement over your existing "n" APs, but I bet there is not any noticeable user experience difference between the Ubiquiti and permier league stuff....which is kind of not that surprising because they use the same chip sets...and use the same basic microcode in the firmware supplied by the chip makers.

[Wave9_Andy]

Good morning

 

Happy to provide some budgetary pricing based on a Meraki solution, you can register for a Meraki Webinar here Wi-Fi for Education | Wave 9 | Cisco Meraki and get an AP.

 

We would be happy to do a webinar and show you some live deployments "in action" and some of the tools the dashboard offers. I think you might be surprised when you consider whole life costs how competitive it is.

 

 

I am certain all the enterprise vendors have hardware capable of performance that will meet your requirements. Design, deployment and integration will make the biggest difference to the initial success of the project for your users. Following that, the tools and you have at your disposal to monitor, manage and maintain the network over its lifetime, will help you ensure that it continues to work well and management is low overhead and simple from your perspective.If you would like to PM me I can send you document on vendor choice and deployment considerations.

 

Regards

 

Andy