Capacity & 10G upgrade

[Blue_Cookeh]

Hi Guys,

 

I'm just planning out some big network changes for our school for next year, since we're finally moving to two tier in our county.

 

I'm looking at purchasing:

 

x1 Ubiquiti ES-16-XG L3 Fibre switch (our core)

x3 HP 2920-48G-PoE+ for our access switches

x3 HP 10G SFP+ Expansion cards for above switches

x1 HP 2530-48G-PoE+-2SFP+ as a quieter access switch

 

Which is great, I'm happy, and we can have L3 almost everywhere! Now I'm looking at sorting out Fibre SFPs and think I've got something but I'm not 100% confident with fibre gear, does anyone mind checking this over?

 

At the moment I'm looking at using these for the Ubiquiti switch, and these for the HP 10G cards and 2530. Should these work together? Has anyone got any other recommendations for 10G SFP+ modules?

 

Cheers

Edited November 1, 2016 by Blue_Cookeh

[Steve21]

Any reason you're picking a cheap edgeswitch for your core? Then using more expensive switches for access?

 

Also doesn't seem to be a proper Layer3 switch just static routing?

 

Steve

[FN-GM]

Which is great, I'm happy, and we can have L3 everywhere!

 

Will you actually use it as a L3 routed network or have L2 uplinks?

 

I would also get a HP core and not mix and match vendors. Its not a good choice of switch either.

 

With SFP's you need to make sure -

 

1. The SFP is is compatible with the switch its going into. It doesn't need to be the same SFP that goes into the switch on the other side of the cable.

2. They are moth using either single mode or multi-mode. Unless you are going over a large number of KM you will use Multi-mode.

3. The swtichports are the same speed on both sides. If one is higher than the other change the speed setting on the switch.

Edited November 1, 2016 by FN-GM

[Net-Ctrl]

If it was of interest our network engineers can discuss your requirements and build a network for you based on the switching partners we work with (Allied Telesis, Brocade and Juniper). Even if it was just for comparison purposes, could prove useful.

[Blue_Cookeh]

Any reason you're picking a cheap edgeswitch for your core? Then using more expensive switches for access?

 

Also doesn't seem to be a proper Layer3 switch just static routing?

 

Steve

 

Will you actually use it as a L3 routed network or have L2 uplinks?

 

I would also get a HP core and not mix and match vendors. Its not a good choice of switch either.

 

With SFP's you need to make sure -

 

1. The SFP is is compatible with the switch its going into.

2. They are moth using either single mode or multi-mode. Unless you are going over a large number of KM you will use Multi-mode.

3. The swtichports are the same speed on both sides. If one is higher than the other change the speed setting on the switch.

 

My issue at the moment is that we're starting to saturate our 2G trunks between switches, and running out of physical switchports now that we're taking on things like IP CCTV, VoIP, access control in a school that was never really built with data networks in mind. Add on to this the AC WiFi upgrades I'm planning out, it's going to get very busy very quickly.

 

In terms of L3 yes, I'm looking to do L3 everywhere; a) we have a complete mish mash of VLANs to do this already with L2 switches and b) it's not helping our uplink saturation.

 

It looks like the 2920 series can take two SFP+ modules in the back, I suppose I could eliminate the Ubiquiti switch and use one of those at our core.

[FN-GM]

They are not 2GB network speed. Trunking / Channelling 2 cables together doesn't increase the connection speed. Its like adding another lane to a motorway you are still limited at 70mph but have another lane so more traffic can go down at 1 time and if one lane is closed you have another to fall back on.

 

I would invest in a proper core switch. L3 doesn't = core.

 

Are these edge switches in the same cabinet?

 

PS: If you want to be factually correct the design of this is called a collapsed distribution design. You technically only every see core switches in huge network and those do little to no routing. However we get it

Edited November 1, 2016 by FN-GM

[Steve21]

What's on the backend of these switches? Do you actually have a 10G server/storage layer?

 

Also are these all the switches you'll be running or are their more old ones?

 

Steve

[localzuk]

Those saying the Ubiquiti switch is an odd choice - it isn't really is it? Its an aggregation switch, which is what most schools use as their cores now - we don't generally actually buy a "marketed as" core switch, as they become hugely expensive and we don't actually need them. The HP 5400zl switches were aggregation switches, for example, and loads of us use them.

 

Also, the equivalent switch by HP is considerably more expensive.

 

Rather than looking at it simply as a cheap switch, my current thought is that the Ubiquiti switches are a very young product, and Ubiquiti have a history with young products being unstable - and indeed there are a bunch of issues that have been discussed about them (eg, you can't use copper direct-attach sfp+ cables with them last I checked, only a short list of specific SFP+ fibre modules).

 

I am very interested in the Ubiquiti switches, but not for at least a few more years until they are a more mature product.

[Blue_Cookeh]

They are not 2GB network speed. Trunking / Channelling 2 cables together doesn't increase the connection speed. Its like adding another lane to a motorway you are still limited at 70mph but have another lane so more traffic can go down at 1 time and if one lane is closed you have another to fall back on.

 

I would invest in a proper core switch. L3 doesn't = core.

 

Are these edge switches in the same cabinet?

 

PS: If you want to be factually correct the design of this is called a collapsed distribution design. You technically only every see core switches in huge network and those do little to no routing. However we get it

 

Oh sure I get the trunk situation, but that doesn't solve my problem today that we're saturating those 2G links with the amount of data we're passing over them

 

Going by my OP, the Ubiquiti and the 2530 was in the same cabinet (which needs to be quiet), whereas the 2920s would be in other locations/buildings.

 

What's on the backend of these switches? Do you actually have a 10G server/storage layer?

 

Also are these all the switches you'll be running or are their more old ones?

 

Steve

 

There isn't a 10G server section at the moment, it's about the number of devices we're using as a whole. The problem is there isn't really a go between with our current 2G trunks and 10G, it'll give us plenty of room to expand in future, and whilst money isn't going to be too much of an issue at the moment, I'd rather ask for more than we need than regret it in two years' time.

 

I can effectively ignore the old switches for this, most of them are 24 port and taking up cab space the 48 ports above will need, hence us running out of switchports.

 

Those saying the Ubiquiti switch is an odd choice - it isn't really is it? Its an aggregation switch, which is what most schools use as their cores now - we don't generally actually buy a "marketed as" core switch, as they become hugely expensive and we don't actually need them. The HP 5400zl switches were aggregation switches, for example, and loads of us use them.

 

Also, the equivalent switch by HP is considerably more expensive.

 

Rather than looking at it simply as a cheap switch, my current thought is that the Ubiquiti switches are a very young product, and Ubiquiti have a history with young products being unstable - and indeed there are a bunch of issues that have been discussed about them (eg, you can't use copper direct-attach sfp+ cables with them last I checked, only a short list of specific SFP+ fibre modules).

 

I am very interested in the Ubiquiti switches, but not for at least a few more years until they are a more mature product.

 

I'm kind of glad you posted this, I see a lot of people with vendettas against Ubiquiti because they aren't charging Cisco prices, but their EdgeSwitch line runs a fork of VyOS so I'm more than willing rely on it, coupled with the fact we've had zero problems running their UniFi kit the past 4 or so years.

 

The way our school is design/setup (as is the case with most older buildings I suspect) our main cabinet is in a damn awkward position and is a wall mounted one in a quiet area, so something like the 5400zl is completely out of the question, and as you say, crazy expensive.

[bossman]

@Blue_Cookeh

 

I too have looked at our infrastructure and looking towards Meraki

 

They seem to have a very good line in switches and with educational discounts or even Charity status discounts I feel these would be what I would recommend based on other professional advice.

 

They may seem a tad more expensive but they have a very good pedigree and as for Cisco being the mother company it speaks volumes, our infrastructure is now 15 years old and built on Cisco quality switches and are still delivering a great service but only with 1GB OM3 Fibre as backbone.

[Steve21]

I guess my question was more in regards to if you're using 1Gb on the server (lets say even 4 in a trunk) your 10Gb will do nothing at all speed wise as you can't get the traffic to anything faster. As an example you could just use the 2920s with 4x 1Gb trunk now and not need to worry about a 10Gb SFP/core etc. And if you need it later you just swap to an SFP.

 

I have nothing against Ubi I just think it's kind of defeating the point of having a cheap core and expensive access switches. Either you're happy to rely on Ubi for the whole network then you might as well have the cheaper access switches too, or you want the HP reliability then you want a reliable core? Never said about needing a chassis etc

 

Steve

[zag]

Nice review of the ubiquiti switch here, seems like a game changer in terms of 10GbE switch pricing.

 

https://www.servethehome.com/ubiquiti-edgeswitch-es-16-xg-review-quality-control-absent/

 

Think it might be a little loud for our place though.

[localzuk]

That review covers what I was saying about stability etc... It just isn't quite up to snuff yet IMO.

@bossman - a little more expensive?! Meraki is super expensive, even compared with HPE. I love their switches, but they are just too expensive still.

[Blue_Cookeh]

Yeah, not touching Meraki with a barge pole - Infrastructure shouldn't be a "pay it or brick it" service.

[njc235]

Have a look at the HP 5800 (JC100B) as a core. It is a common model with 2920's as TOR edge. The 5800 offers 4 built in SFP+ with an option to add 4 more via expansion card. 2 or more 5800's can be used to make a virtual chassis which offers robustness and resilience to your core.

[mrbios]

Not sure how good they are, but any reason to prefer the 2920/30's over the 1950's? £400 cheaper per switch and has 2 x SFP+ and 2 x 10G copper ports built in without the need for expansion cards. Annoying bit about the expansion cards is that they go on the back, so connections are irritating. Also appears to have the same switching capacity as the 2920s.

[Blue_Cookeh]

Not sure how good they are, but any reason to prefer the 2920/30's over the 1950's? £400 cheaper per switch and has 2 x SFP+ and 2 x 10G copper ports built in without the need for expansion cards. Annoying bit about the expansion cards is that they go on the back, so connections are irritating. Also appears to have the same switching capacity as the 2920s.

 

Not sure if they've picked up the Aruba OS feature set the 2920s have? We're using things like the Bonjour gateway now. Also what's the CLI like compared to the 2920? It doesn't look as full, or even like HP support using it.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Blue_Cookeh