[sims] SIMS Web Interface

[FN-GM]

Hello,

 

Can anyone recommend software that can present SIMS in a web interface please?

 

I have heard about PARS but someone on here can say it can be quite slow, so just seeing what else is out there.

 

Thanks

[Esteban_Child_of_the_Sun]

What do you want to do in the web interface? Capita have lots of web and/or app products that can do a great many things without a user having to log in to the full fat client, and there are also plenty of 3rd party products as well.

[skell]

PARS is great, I've found that any sluggishness is down to SIMS itself rather than PARS.

 

They recommend a fairly beefy system though (8 cores, 32GB RAM)

[matt40k]

To be fair to PARS any system is going to be slow when you think about how its going to have to interface with SIMS. If your saying you need SIMS to be web based, then really you're saying you need a web based MIS and SIMS isn't a web based MIS - just saying, square pegs and round holes...

[Linfit]

We use PARS to give access on staff iPads and its fine if you give it a beefy enough server. Its no slower than some bits of SIMS are !

Would recommend it - its also been very reliable, with little or no fiddling required once its set up.

[Cazale]

To be fair to PARS any system is going to be slow when you think about how its going to have to interface with SIMS. If your saying you need SIMS to be web based, then really you're saying you need a web based MIS and SIMS isn't a web based MIS - just saying, square pegs and round holes...

 

The SIMS client is just a database front-end. There's no technical reason why something written in PHP/ASP/whatever can't access/manipulate the DB directly (don't see Capita providing such a client any time soon mind).

[matt40k]

Apart from a lot of the business logic is in those pesky .NET dll's. So you'd need to web-ify those before you anything. So bypassing the dll would put you into unsupported mode. And actually they have - SLG and kinda-of SIMS Teacher app.

[broomop]

you can use SIMs teacher application for this.

[JonThompson]

We used Bromcoms TeachersWebfolder that gave staff access to SIMS data through a webbrowser. It seemed to work OK, but we've since stopped using it as staff where no longer using it as reporting and data analysis has moved to SISRA and Go 4 Schhols.

[FN-GM]

What do you want to do in the web interface? Capita have lots of web and/or app products that can do a great many things without a user having to log in to the full fat client, and there are also plenty of 3rd party products as well.

 

As much as we can get really!

 

To be fair to PARS any system is going to be slow when you think about how its going to have to interface with SIMS. If your saying you need SIMS to be web based, then really you're saying you need a web based MIS and SIMS isn't a web based MIS - just saying, square pegs and round holes...

 

You don't need to tell me that...

 

you can use SIMs teacher application for this.

 

Thought that was an app based thing only?

[Michael]

There was a similar discussion last week - if you're a growing MAT, then you should look at a native web based product rather trying to make something legacy accessible over the web.

 

And then presumably if the specs above are correct - 8 cores and 32GB of memory, (per SIMS instance) if you're required to replace your servers it really is a false economy. 32GB of memory isn't ridiculous these days, but to move the SIMS DB from one server to another, it's hardly a 5 minute job.

[2ilent8cho]

This is exactly why we are very seriously considering moving to iSAMS and dumping SIMS after 20+ years. iSAMS have it right, fully web based + Apps for mobile/tablet.

[Michael]

Capita will in time, but as per usual they're very late. I seem to re-call SIMS.net was late too. The whole Academy/MAT idea is nothing new, but it's certainly growing in pace.

[Michael]

I think my only initial 'criticism' of iSAMS (as quoted on their website), is most of their clients host it in-house? Why - if it's designed as a cloud based solution, it should be hosted in a proper datacentre. The total cost of ownership is going to be far less in the long-term when changing/updating servers on site. In a MAT configuration, that could be either one less server or VM per site, so it pays to get the decision right from the beginning.

[clareq]

Remote apps? We have a RDweb server, and SIMS works well as a remote app.

[FN-GM]

Remote apps? We have a RDweb server, and SIMS works well as a remote app.

 

Can't do this because

 

1. The expense of having RDS hosts

2. Native RDS is not compatible with Chrome OS unless you go with Citrix. That will cost even more money!

[ful56_uk]

Salamander do some web parts not sure what your trying to do

[Esteban_Child_of_the_Sun]

Which school phase are you? If you are primary then there are many more options. If secondary then you really need to decide what is important functionality to have, as nothing out there does everything SIMS can do, but most schools don't use (or in some instances know about) every thing SIMS can do. I.e. I've never seen a web based timetabling software package that works as well as NOVA-T. Edited October 10, 2016 by Esteban_Child_of_the_Sun

[FN-GM]

I.e. I've never seen a web based timetabling software package that works as well as NOVA-T.

 

To be fair its not part of SIMS

 

Which school phase are you?

 

Both secondary and primary. Although at the moment its secondary I am concentrating on.

[Banjo]

I think my only initial 'criticism' of iSAMS (as quoted on their website), is most of their clients host it in-house? Why - if it's designed as a cloud based solution, it should be hosted in a proper datacentre. The total cost of ownership is going to be far less in the long-term when changing/updating servers on site. In a MAT configuration, that could be either one less server or VM per site, so it pays to get the decision right from the beginning.

 

Just to clarify who are you criticising? The software provider for offering schools the choice of hosting solutions or the school for hosting on their own servers? Not every school has fibre, especially in rural locations and it isn't always cost effective to pay for hosting depending on your current IT infrastructure.

 

Capita will happily charge £600K+ over 5 years to host their LA system - The cost to replace the existing servers with a 5yr warranty £25k. Paying other people isn't always the best solution. IMO the ability to host iSAMS locally would be a tick in the 'pro' column not the 'con'.

[Michael]

Can't do this because

 

1. The expense of having RDS hosts

2. Native RDS is not compatible with Chrome OS unless you go with Citrix. That will cost even more money!

 

This proves my point, it's like trying to win a losing battle. Trying to make a legacy system work over a WAN and/or a MAT, the costs soon start to spiral. This is why Capita and others are making a cloud system; but as I say, it's just unfortunate that it's not ready today when you need it.

[Michael]

Just to clarify who are you criticising? The software provider for offering schools the choice of hosting solutions or the school for hosting on their own servers? Not every school has fibre, especially in rural locations and it isn't always cost effective to pay for hosting depending on your current IT infrastructure.

 

Capita will happily charge £600K+ over 5 years to host their LA system - The cost to replace the existing servers with a 5yr warranty £25k. Paying other people isn't always the best solution. IMO the ability to host iSAMS locally would be a tick in the 'pro' column not the 'con'.

 

Well seeing as you ask, I suppose both If you factor in your management time, database licenses, backing up the database, the server itself, running costs - it does soon start to add up. If you're paying £25K for servers (for example), fibre is achievable within these costs, even in rural locations. Other considerations are that many Assessment tools outside your current MIS are probably web based, but also your Staff will thank you if the whole MIS is accessible from home. I do see where you're coming from, but I guess it's just a differing of opinion. If designed natively, a cloud MIS should operate like any other web page, even on low bandwidth <2Mbps.

 

Capita might charge more than others in terms of hosting, but then many other cloud MIS's will probably come in considerably lower. There's a lot of growing competition, (which is great for us managing schools), so again it very much is what you think is best for the school or MAT in question.

 

I mean for example, you could argue running a local MS Exchange server is suitable for low bandwidth connectivity, but you could argue the server, MS Exchange, CALs etc... could go towards a faster internet connection for the benefit of all. And plus in the context of Education, standard O365 packages are free.

Others may think less servers may mean less jobs, but again I disagree. The server and its service (whatever that may be), may be physically ran elsewhere, but managing a system still requires a great deal of skill.

[FN-GM]

This proves my point, it's like trying to win a losing battle. Trying to make a legacy system work over a WAN and/or a MAT, the costs soon start to spiral. This is why Capita and others are making a cloud system; but as I say, it's just unfortunate that it's not ready today when you need it.

 

I know, I have tried that, this is why I am falling back to this option.

[Michael]

If you're part of a MAT, approaching multiple providers as a group will definitely make financial sense, but you already know this

[FN-GM]

If you're part of a MAT, approaching multiple providers as a group will definitely make financial sense, but you already know this

 

I do but its not the money thats the issue (for once!)