Office 365 or Google Apps?

[Zoom7000]

I know this question might have been asked 100s of times, before, but I'm at a crossroads with my implementations and what direction to go in. I've always been a Microsoft guy and thought the transition to Office 365 made the most sense because it involved Microsoft Office, which is what most of our users have grown up with. However, I've been looking in to Google Apps recently and I was quite surprised as to how many schools locally have actually taken it up. I'm also very impressed with Chromebooks and the thought process behind them and that management seems to be a lot easier than with full fat Windows laptops/tablets. Also, the times I have had to call Google support vs Microsoft support, the experience with Google has been so much better than with Microsoft.

 

Now, here is my main hurdle... Google Docs/Slides and Sheets. I'm sure we all have the same wonderful issue of staff filling up their home folders and shared areas. Google Drive seems to have a wonderfully immediate solution to this which is unlimited space. Problem solved right? Well... not really! The space problem is solved, definitely. But the issue then comes with when the staff go to edit their files. Obviously, these will historically be Microsoft Word. Excel and PowerPoint files. So, you go to edit a file, it converts is to a Docs/Slides/Sheets file, creates a duplicate and then makes a right mess of the formatting of the document. Then there is the issue of features. Google Docs can't even create a full page border in a document as I found with a random Word document I tried to edit with Google Docs, and no doubt there will be tons of other features that are missing!

 

So, I'm left with several questions... How have your staff managed the transition and learning curve to Google Apps considering most have come from a Microsoft background. Is it worth the time and training consideration moving to Google, or should we stick with what we know? Is Google winning the war in Education, as I have been very surprised by just how many schools have embraced it in comparison to Office 365. Or is Office 365 the way forward?

[gaz350b]

I think the reason why google are in so many schools is that it had a massive head start. We've had Googledocs for our staff for 7 years at the college (probably when it was released). Our primary which we took over 5 years ago has been using exchange online since it became free. The latest carrot has been Office 365 with its Pro Plus and we're started deploying this to students last September and it was a big hit, we've recently finished migrating our student email over to exchange online.

 

Me personally and a lot of staff I have spoken to, love the integration between Microsoft online and full applications. When your online they don't have to hunt down where an option is and for more complicated edits its a simple click away.

[mjk]

Now, here is my main hurdle... Google Docs/Slides and Sheets. I'm sure we all have the same wonderful issue of staff filling up their home folders and shared areas. Google Drive seems to have a wonderfully immediate solution to this which is unlimited space. Problem solved right? Well... not really! The space problem is solved, definitely. But the issue then comes with when the staff go to edit their files. Obviously, these will historically be Microsoft Word. Excel and PowerPoint files. So, you go to edit a file, it converts is to a Docs/Slides/Sheets file, creates a duplicate and then makes a right mess of the formatting of the document. Then there is the issue of features. Google Docs can't even create a full page border in a document as I found with a random Word document I tried to edit with Google Docs, and no doubt there will be tons of other features that are missing!

 

 

Minor things like this are not a showstopper. You just need to think outside of the microsoft box sometimes: docs isn't supposed to be a clone.

For the particular example you gave; how about using a single cell table as a border or if you need something more fanciful using a picture insert, or even using Google Drawings.

Also consider the vast array of add-ons for sheets and docs which add a huge amount of functionality. And the marketplace, which is way ahead of Microsoft. When it really comes down to it I've never found anything that isn't possible to do in Google and there are many things (such as forms) which, for example, give huge opportunities in terms of automated workflow allowing senior staff to 'approve' requests. Just replicating an existing system in the cloud isn't the way forward - it's the extra things that you can do that make Google apps a great platform.

[free780]

Its all to do with legacy. Do you hold onto MS Office? Do you keep using legacy desktop programs but there's no easy way to save to one drive/ google drive? Until the desktop clients for cloud storage are able to do placeholders this will be the main stumbling block for office 365 / google.

[Blue_Cookeh]

Its all to do with legacy. Do you hold onto MS Office? Do you keep using legacy desktop programs but there's no easy way to save to one drive/ google drive? Until the desktop clients for cloud storage are able to do placeholders this will be the main stumbling block for office 365 / google.

 

 

Office 2013/2016 and Windows 8.1/Windows 10 all have brilliant integration with Office365, so much more so than any of the crap Google put out. I very nearly took our school onto GAfE, and switched to Office365 at the last moment, Google's customer support is shockingly bad whereas with Microsoft I usually get someone calling me back within 20 minutes of submitting a help ticket.

 

Google Apps was nice at home, not so much at school (unless you're using Chromebooks everywhere, in which case it's a whole other story...)

Edited July 3, 2016 by Blue_Cookeh

[techy32]

Simple answer... Office 365....No discussion... Worked 8 years with GAfE.... Never used it as file server... What a nightmare

[asc]

I think GAfE performs better in terms of collaboration. Students at our school love it - it can be accessed from anywhere (no need for a bulky school laptop with MS Office) and the simultaneous typing feature is really cool!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRaelhVbtx8

 

Also, you might want to research Google Classroom. It's way ahead of Microsoft's 'Teacher App' offering and staff find it super easy to use. Student uptake here is impressive, especially because they can put the app on their smartphones and check outstanding homework.

[TwistedHelixis]

ffice 2013/2016 and Windows 8.1/Windows 10 all have brilliant integration with Office365, so much more so than any of the crap Google put out. I very nearly took our school onto GAfE, and switched to Office365 at the last moment, Google's customer support is shockingly bad whereas with Microsoft I usually get someone calling me back within 20 minutes of submitting a help ticket.

 

Google Apps was nice at home, not so much at school (unless you're using Chromebooks everywhere, in which case it's a whole other story...)

 

Lol, don't normally need someone from google calling me back after 20mins, always get through to them within a few seconds. I also let all my schools decide, so setup both and let a few staff member play. All schools came back and asked for Google Apps.

Did you actually setup the full GAFE or just the free personal version, they are very different systems.

[techy32]

GAfE isn't good as compared to office 365. How are you using Google drive with office documents?

[jmak]

Well you can edit ms format docs using Google apps and save them back in the same format (so no duplicates):

 

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/office-editing-for-docs-s/gbkeegbaiigmenfmjfclcdgdpimamgkj?hl=en

 

Or use the Google Drive add in for MS Office and then use "Save As" and Google Drive appears as a drive.

 

I find the structure for sharing and collaborating in Google Apps much more intuitive. I think MS are getting there, but they're several years behind.

[Zoom7000]

Well you can edit ms format docs using Google apps and save them back in the same format (so no duplicates):

 

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/office-editing-for-docs-s/gbkeegbaiigmenfmjfclcdgdpimamgkj?hl=en

 

Or use the Google Drive add in for MS Office and then use "Save As" and Google Drive appears as a drive.

 

I find the structure for sharing and collaborating in Google Apps much more intuitive. I think MS are getting there, but they're several years behind.

 

Okay, that's a little bit better, but it still makes a right hash of the formatting if you try to use the browser to live edit the files. I've just tried one now and the images in the document were all over the place.

 

As for the Google Drive Add-in, this is only feasible if you are using Microsoft Office, not an option for live editing or for Chromebooks.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Zoom7000

[Zoom7000]

Minor things like this are not a showstopper. You just need to think outside of the microsoft box sometimes: docs isn't supposed to be a clone.

For the particular example you gave; how about using a single cell table as a border or if you need something more fanciful using a picture insert, or even using Google Drawings.

Also consider the vast array of add-ons for sheets and docs which add a huge amount of functionality. And the marketplace, which is way ahead of Microsoft. When it really comes down to it I've never found anything that isn't possible to do in Google and there are many things (such as forms) which, for example, give huge opportunities in terms of automated workflow allowing senior staff to 'approve' requests. Just replicating an existing system in the cloud isn't the way forward - it's the extra things that you can do that make Google apps a great platform.

 

"Not a showstopper" - Maybe not for you and I. But definitely for the end user. Making a single celled table is counter intuitive. Why not have a single option to add a border to a page? It's not asking for much.

 

I'm not saying GAfE is useless, far from it, like you say, it does some things a LOT better than Office 365. The trouble is, it's clearly not easy migrating from a Microsoft rich environment. It's great if you are starting from scratch with no files whatsoever with a clean slate. But the trouble is, hardly anyone is. We have terabytes of files we need to migrate over from local storage to the cloud and the Google option as I see it at the moment is just gonna cause confusion mayhem for staff for whom these things are a showstopper.

[techy32]

@Zoom7000 - 100% true...

 

That's exactly my point...

Edited July 3, 2016 by techy32

[caffrey]

I trialled both 3 years ago as our department got a load of iPads dumped on us and our exchange server was creaky (Was no easy way to get email and file storage on iPads at the time), and in the end went with GAFE as o365 just wasn't quite there. To me it seems like Google lead the way and the others follow, but I've not really looked at 365 since - maybe it got better (iirc the file sharing etc. was terrible). Our staff seem to get on with GAFE just fine, they like the collaboration and I like the free unlimited storage.

I've had no issues with the support when I've needed to use it either and for free I can't really complain - the only thing that's missing that I would really like is them to fix the google drive sync so I can map user folders to their cloud storage (And be installable for more than one user per machine)

[maark]

Google seem ahead of microsoft - collaboration is better, classroom is used widely here also support is very good - instant response with suggested fixes and ability to analyse logs online with good phone support.

[tom_newton]

I've used both in a commercial environment, and I have to say, using office365 is a massive chore compared with google docs. Being tied to crappy desktop software is just so limiting compared to the in-browser editing for collaboration. Sharepoint is just horrifying.

[gshaw]

We're on Office 365 and have been for a couple of years now, also activated Google Apps this year for a Chromebook pilot so have a foot in both camps. In terms of the O365 environment we went with it initially to get our staff accounts onto a more scalable system for email etc. then followed the students on afterwards. It works well and MS have added a lot to the platform recently but...

 

...the end user device side of things is more clunky, MS just don't have anything that truly competes with the Chromebook and Win10 hasn't really helped make things much easier in that regard. I love the fact it's now possible to buy a rock solid bit of kit (Dell Chromebook 11 etc.) for under £200 which boots in seconds and won't ever get infected with malware etc. In comparison low-cost Win10 devices are cheap and nasty and still need AV etc. Currently trying out Azure AD join to see if that gives a nicer user experience but seems we then lose a lot of management features (or pay again for InTune?) so is it really any better?

 

OneDrive, which should be a killer product is a pain on shared devices whereas Drive seems to work fine on a Chromebook without needing to sync everything locally. For that reason alone I've been sitting here pondering if we should move but it's difficult as so much work has already gone into Office 365 and we do have a sizeable desktop estate. What we can't do is provide 1:1 (large college) or force BYOD so shared carts are the way to go if we want to move to more flexible learning spaces without desktops dominating the floor space, which is where OneDrive \ Win10 are at their worst.

 

SharePoint seems to be slowly getting dismantled into more user-friendly chunks but that also leads to competition within the Office 365 suite e.g. should documents live in a managed SharePoint site or do you go with Groups, which are more user friendly but more liable to spiral out of control.

 

All that said when we've piloted the Chromebooks the first thing users are reporting back is Office document compatibility and whether they can open up Word. Right now one pilot option was to use SSO to auth to either platform from the first logon then put shortcuts to O365 web apps on the Chromebooks, how about that for a frankenstein setup! Probably won't go ahead in production as it's a bit risky but says a lot about what MS are missing with Win10 right now imo.

 

All in all both platforms have their pluses and minuses but if you're going in from fresh Google Apps seems to be a bit lighter and simpler overall.

Edited August 8, 2016 by gshaw

[juliee]

I can't wait to dump my Windows machines. CBs and GAFE sooooo much easier to manage. Even the teachers who are addicted to Word are coming around; they are thrilled with the collaborative power of the Google apps for teaching. I'd say our Windows machines and Office, per device, are about 10% of the value, educationally speaking, of our system, and 90% of the effort; CBs, per device, are about 90% of the value and 10% of the effort. Bang for the IT salary buck.

[maark]

If i was starting a network from scratch now I would go with Chromebooks/boxes and google apps.

Windows 10 and office 365 are a PITA and poor support from microsoft with configuration and solutions to problems.

[Blue_Cookeh]

If i was starting a network from scratch now I would go with Chromebooks/boxes and google apps.

Windows 10 and office 365 are a PITA and poor support from microsoft with configuration and solutions to problems.

 

Personally I'd say the plethora of options (Group Policy, various MDMs such as Meraki, InTune, SCCM etc etc) gives Microsoft the edge in this case.

 

I don't know too much about Chromebooks, how do SMART boards etc work with them?

Edited September 5, 2016 by Blue_Cookeh

[pcstru]

Better? Better for what and whom? We have three distinct groups of users - possibly more and their needs can be quite different and might be best served by different offerings. For students, the simplicity and availability of Google is good. It's collaboration features are great. The students come with no legacy (1000's of documents in specific formats) so they are not constrained in that way. For Staff, there is that legacy of MS Office documents that has built up over the years and the legacy of shared drives etc. Then there are the skills which might be difficult for some staff who already struggle with what a "file" or "folder" actually is. Then there are us, IT - who while we should be largely agnostic on which technology is 'best', still have to support it so have to acquire the skills and have to have the bandwidth to actually manage the beast. Legacy affects us perhaps the worst (applications like SIMS etc which have to be supported and demand a Windows platform) - we have to make it work for the lowest common denominator so GAFE is unlikely to displace an MS AD infrastructure.

 

So I didn't vote. I think the question is one that can only be answered by looking at the whole organisation and there probably is no "best" even at the level of just one school, just some compromise that is least worst.

Edited September 5, 2016 by pcstru

[Lonix]

We have both here:

 

Used an entire year for Google Apps (free after all) and tied in to the RealSmart/Google/Tablet system so it all made sense. In all honesty this became a big regret because there were certain functions that didn't exist in some of the Apps. I couldn't list them all but even resorting to google didn't help "function doesn't exist".

 

We resorted to Office 365 once we got the agreements etc all sorted out for another Year of Students. We had a lot less issues with this and because it tied in to our AD system it made things much simpler. Also allowed our Staff to have copies and because its their preference for productivity it made sense.

 

So going forward we will stick to Office 365 but we may have Google Apps as an extra if Staff want it - again after all it's free. Google Apps is great if you're happy with the basics but if you want the advanced stuff, it does seem behind (at least at the time of 12 months ago it was).

 

The great thing is because Google Apps is free, you can potentially set it all up and use it. Forget about Office 365 and see how you go. If it turns out you actually do need Office 365 instead - you lose nothing.

[gshaw]

We have both, Office 365 is the primary platform with GAFE to support the Chromebooks.

 

Without those we'd be OK on O365 alone but Windows 10 is a long way away from being as lightweight and simple to manage as the Chromebooks. If anything it's getting more problematic to manage due to the numerous bugs making deployment far more hassle than it should be.

[blueplanetit]

We've worked with both but we are seeing a shift to Office 365 now with the schools we work with, a few of them have really got going with OneNote for Classrooms and the Preview of Microsoft Classroom and the feedback is very positive. I think it's a win/win but I would favour Office 365 for more reasons that I can explain here.

[mavhc]

I always have both, Office365 for people who'll never leave MS Office, Google Apps for people who have never used MS Office, or realise the advantages of pure cloud, ie people who don't want to print everything out.

 

Just don't try to replicate your client/server/desktop/ms office workflow into Google Apps, create new documents there.

 

I've talked to support from both companies, seemed similar.