Customizing the start menu

[mwf]

Hi everyone,

 

I know that a lot of people like using classic shell but I want to eventually not rely on a third party tool. If Windows retains custom settings in a local profile and it's restored upon a reboot, that data is somewhere.

 

Is this done through the XML? Right now my local profile is done through dragging the bar from the right side left as far as it can go.

 

This is what happens after I unpin everything and shrink it down.

 

How can I reduce the black bar from image 1 to image 2?

 

Original: http://i.imgur.com/9ZDY1nQ.png

How I want it by default: http://i.imgur.com/XIPEPKD.png

 

Thanks.

Edited April 27, 2016 by mwf
forgot a sentence

[Garacesh]

The XML file only modifies pinned tiles, to modify the content of 'all apps' you need to use folder redirection. You're right saying this data is stored "somewhere", but I've no idea where, so at current I have files copied from the file server to the end-user machine on startup, but that still hasn't fixed all the issues.

 

So far I haven't found a way to resize the start menu, but I haven't looked into it too much as I'm using the XML to pin certain things like MSOffice. If I create the XML file with the start menu resized so there's only one column of tiles, it still becomes a the full-width (2 tiles columns) start menu when applied to a different user

Edited April 28, 2016 by Garacesh

[fleXx]

The XML file only modifies pinned tiles, to modify the content of 'all apps' you need to use folder redirection. You're right saying this data is stored "somewhere", but I've no idea where, so at current I have files copied from the file server to the end-user machine on startup, but that still hasn't fixed all the issues.

 

So far I haven't found a way to resize the start menu, but I haven't looked into it too much as I'm using the XML to pin certain things like MSOffice. If I create the XML file with the start menu resized so there's only one column of tiles, it still becomes a the full-width (2 tiles columns) start menu when applied to a different user

 

Something that may help you both with resizing the start menu, try putting "" on the second line of the xml file. E.g.

 

 

This worked nicely for us, although still having lots of problems with Windows 10 inconsistently pinning the apps we want such as IE.

Edited May 4, 2016 by fleXx

[Garacesh]

This worked nicely for us, although still having lots of problems with Windows 10 inconsistently pinning the apps we want such as IE.

Yeah, I've encountered both Notepad and IE being temperamental about being pinned, so I've left them out. I just have MSOffice, Calculator, Snipping tool and MSPaint. I could do different XML's for different departments (have Art and ICT have the Adobe Suite pinned, have Technology pin our 3D CAD software, 2D design software, etc) but that's not really worth the hassle for a small UI tweak. The redirected start menu is working fine, so just like Windows 7, they'll just have some icons that don't work and some that do depending on which machine they're using. It's not perfect, but it works. Kids are fairly understanding of the fact that Google Earth isn't on the Art computers, and the English laptops can't be used to draw up a plan for laser cutting.. etc)

 

unfortunately breaks our layout Removing the offending line makes it work again. I've also tried adding one step from the bottom (above ) to no avail.

For reference:

 

Edit: Annoyingly the ruddy calculator icon isn't showing up now, either :/

Edited May 4, 2016 by Garacesh

[fleXx]

Are you using the same layouts for staff?

I'm trying to do layouts for various departments like you, but those are for students.

 

How are you applying your XML file(s)? I am using the Import-StartLayout command in a powershell script for different XML layouts (depending on whether they are staff or student computers) in an SCCM task sequence as a template, and then deploying another XML for students via group policy. Not doing this for staff because it disables the ability to pin your own apps to the start menu.

I'm actually wondering whether there is any point in deploying the start menu layout with group policy for students because once they log out the profile will be wiped anyway so all of the custom pinned apps that they have will be removed.

[Garacesh]

Are you using the same layouts for staff?

No, just kids. I'll probably make a separate layout for staff with sims etc, but at the moment I'm just working on students.

 

How are you applying your XML file(s)?

The XML gets copied to the local machine by way of a startup script using ROBOCOPY /MIR, and is applied to students using GPO (User Configuration, Policies, Administrative Templates, Start Menu and Taskbar - Start Layout)

 

The XML file was originally created by logging in as the local admin, configuring tiles and running Export-StartLayout.

[Michael]

I appreciate using a third party tool like Classic Shell is far from ideal - if the Start Menu XML configuration worked consistently and reliably, I would use it. I literally spent hours trying to get it to work and concluded it's one area Microsoft unfortunately have fallen short, but you never know Redstone 1 may resolve it, we shall see.

 

There are advantages to Classic Shell other than just the Start Menu you see by default - it's fully customisable (again using XML) and it works with traditional Folder Redirection policies, so you can populate the 'All Programs' menu. You can also Pin Apps to the Start Menu using GPP policies and it works consistently/reliably.

 

Another advantage is the Start Menu context menu. You can hide it completely for standard users, but make it visible for Domain Admins for example. You cannot do this using standard Windows 10 GPOs as again, it's something that's dropped off the Microsoft radar.

 

Overall end users find it easier to logoff and shutdown, as well as navigate to areas on the network, just as they did Windows 7.

[SHimmer45]

anyone managed to get a list of the desktopapplicationID's or are this only relevant for microsoft applications or store installed apps?

 

or is the ID the windows installer ID stored in the registry

[fleXx]

If you manage to get SIMS pinned, please let me know how you did it

I can't get this working because SIMS isn't installed at the point of the start menu layout being applied. I've tried adding a shortcut to the application and placing that in the start menu and was hopeful but that didn't seem to work either ><

 

I've seen lots of people using classic shell but like you said Michael, its not ideal. I don't really like the idea of using a third-party tool to manage something that should be easily manageable as its part of the OS.

 

Shimmer45: You could try using DesktopApplicationLinkPath instead of the applicationID? Just point the DesktopApplicationLinkPath to a shortcut that's placed in %ALLUSERSPROFILE%\Microsoft\Windows\Start Menu\Programs\Accessories.

Edited May 5, 2016 by fleXx

[SHimmer45]

@fleXx experimenting with this atm.

 

again W10 adding what some would consider needless complexity to an important task of actually displaying and controlling what the end user can see

[Garacesh]

If you manage to get SIMS pinned, please let me know how you did it

I can't get this working because SIMS isn't installed at the point of the start menu layout being applied. I've tried adding a shortcut to the application and placing that in the start menu and was hopeful but that didn't seem to work either ><

FWIW, I've got the XML applied as a user policy (i.e the policy is applied to the user OU) therefore it's not applied until a user logs in. This means we can install $SoftwarePackage to the machine before the user logs on and it ought to work.

Can't promise it. But it's worth a try?

 

I've seen lots of people using classic shell but like you said Michael, its not ideal. I don't really like the idea of using a third-party tool to manage something that should be easily manageable as its part of the OS.

Same here, I'm really trying to avoid it, I appreciate that W10 is lacking in many areas but I just don't like the idea of introducing a third party tool as part of the core OS. If nothing else, just because it'll confuse half the staff that have Windows 10 at home and "It doesn't look the same"

[fleXx]

FWIW, I've got the XML applied as a user policy (i.e the policy is applied to the user OU) therefore it's not applied until a user logs in. This means we can install $SoftwarePackage to the machine before the user logs on and it ought to work.

Can't promise it. But it's worth a try?

 

I have thought of doing this but the problem with that is that once you apply a start layout with GP, the user can't pin their own items to the start menu which a lot of staff are likely to complain about.

[Garacesh]

I have thought of doing this but the problem with that is that once you apply a start layout with GP, the user can't pin their own items to the start menu

That's kind of the point. Unified UI across all machines.

 

which a lot of staff are likely to complain about.

They have a Desktop that follows them (it's mapped to their homeshare) if they want anything else.

[fleXx]

Staff don't roam between machines, teachers have their own laptops and admin staff have their one desktop.

 

Although if I could find one layout to suit all, then staff not being able to pin their own shortcuts potentially wouldn't be an issue.

[alfatec]

I have SIMS pinned to the Start Menu as a tile.

 

[Michael]

Well with Classic Shell, you can pin Apps in addition to the ones I Pin using Group Policy. Likewise Staff can Pin to the Taskbar also, but pupils can't.

 

Just remember the only reason this discussion has started is because the control element of the Windows 10 Start is problematic and inconsistent. Many users on this forum alone have raised the same/similar issues since Windows 10's release.

[fleXx]

I have SIMS pinned to the Start Menu as a tile.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36574[/ATTACH]

 

How are you doing this? GPO at user login?

[alfatec]

Yes. Built my standard image, without apps, removed them from install.wim before build. After sysprep and redeployment, installed all applications (including SIMS.Net), logged in as local admin and export startmenu.xml using powershell. Put

the XML in a staffshared folder and then apply Group policy to staff. Have desktop, startmenu redirected and start tiles coming from xml file. Only thing I found is it does not like having Internet explorer, edge etc pinned to the startmenu.xml so

I just put the basic apps on the start tile and then put IE and the rest on desktop and in start menu.

[fleXx]

put IE and the rest on desktop

 

Do you not find that this slows logins? We had various things being deployed to users desktop via GP but we found that it had a dramatic effect on logon speeds so we try not to.

[alfatec]

No it should not affect login speeds. If you only have shortcuts which are very small it would not affect login speeds. How did you have your desktop folder redirection setup?

[fleXx]

Redirecting Desktop folder to %homeshare%%homepath%Desktop

 

Not granting user exclusive rights and moving the contents of desktop to the new location.

Edited May 5, 2016 by fleXx

[alfatec]

No I would create shared folders for staff and students and redirect to the shared folders.

 

 

[fleXx]

The issue we would have with that is a lot of staff and students save pretty much ALL of their work in their desktop folders... even though we try and drill it into their heads that they shouldn't be doing this...

[alfatec]

You need to change that otherwise you will never have a solution. Thanks.

[Michael]

The issue we would have with that is a lot of staff and students save pretty much ALL of their work in their desktop folders... even though we try and drill it into their heads that they shouldn't be doing this...

 

If you redirect the Desktop (back to each home directory), then this isn't a problem.