adamf Posted January 26, 2008 Posted January 26, 2008 I've been using Fronter since November (not rolled it out to the school yet) and I've come across a problem with student passwords. We imported our MIS data and all staff and student were allocated a username and password - I was able to view them all so I can distribute them. Sometime between then and now all the student usernames have changed and passwords are no longer viewable. I called the LgFL and they said the usernames has changed to reflect the usernames that we use to logon to our network - they bear no resemblance to them!! As they don't seem to be able to offer me an explanation as to why they had changed. Has anybody else seen this? I need to find a way to bulk reset the passwords at the same time! Adam.
m25man Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 Clearly another good argument why it's a good idea to outsource all of these projects to a centrally managed LEA/Becta appointed quango that the local administrator has no control over or ability to fix! The end result will be that the system in unworkable for many, they will give up using it and the service provider will continue to collect a vast sum of government money for a service that either doesn't work or is unused! Roll on the BSF (Blackhole for School Funding).
adamf Posted January 27, 2008 Author Posted January 27, 2008 Straying slightly from the subject..... I presume you mean not a good idea?? I totally agree. However, it's a SLT dream when the first year is free! They might see things differently when they actually have to pay for it! Does anyone actually know how I can fix this problem since relying on the LgFL so far has been a non-starter!
Oops_my_bad Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) Do you run active directory? Is it your own or are you part of the LEA domain? Sorry, doesnt really answer your question - our LEA pushed fronter on to all schools here (they were probably sold on the same "first year free!!!" thing) but reading some of these forums I'm glad we stuck with moodle Edited January 27, 2008 by TeddyKGB
CyberNerd Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 Ideally, any managed service used by schools/colleges will provide a Shibbololised frontend. Schools would be registered as an identity provider, thus providing single sign on. Shibboleth is the NEN standard, which is seemingly ignored. Shibboleth works with AD, and other authentication systems at the schools end. http://schools.becta.org.uk/index.php?section=lv&catcode=ss_lv_saf_se_03&rid=11277
Fedaykin Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 Straying slightly from the subject..... I presume you mean not a good idea?? I totally agree. However, it's a SLT dream when the first year is free! They might see things differently when they actually have to pay for it! Does anyone actually know how I can fix this problem since relying on the LgFL so far has been a non-starter! I could answer your question on how to fix this as I have been a Fronter admin for years:D....but really Fronter can help you with this and you are part of a managed service in London meaning there is a dedicated service desk to help you with these kind of issues. LGFL is the wrong port of call for this , you need to speak to Fronter UK's service desk (in London its called the London MLE service desk). I doubt they would have any problem dealing with this issue. Call: 0845 450 1948 1
adamf Posted January 27, 2008 Author Posted January 27, 2008 I could answer your question on how to fix this as I have been a Fronter admin for years:D.... Thats nice
Fedaykin Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 Thats nice Don't take it the wrong way but the fact is you didn't need to come on a forum to ask this question the service desk can easily deal with your problem.
GrumbleDook Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 (edited) Ideally, any managed service used by schools/colleges will provide a Shibbololised frontend. Schools would be registered as an identity provider, thus providing single sign on. Shibboleth is the NEN standard, which is seemingly ignored. Shibboleth works with AD, and other authentication systems at the schools end. http://schools.becta.org.uk/index.php?section=lv&catcode=ss_lv_saf_se_03&rid=11277 Schools should not be the identity provider except on local (ie LAN) access. The regional IDP should be the RBC, with connections in place so that the information is passed upstream from the school to the RBC to keep it up to date. Whilst this does not seem to make the RBC the Regional IDP it should be referred to it as such, as all 3rd party bodies which need to provide connectors should do to the Regional IDP (ie the RBC) rather than directly to the school. The 3rd parties should be members of the UK Access Management Federation and follow the standards therein. Edited January 27, 2008 by GrumbleDook
GrumbleDook Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 Don't take it the wrong way but the fact is you didn't need to come on a forum to ask this question the service desk can easily deal with your problem. Try not to take this the wrong way ... the fact that he felt that he *had* to bring it here after he had a been told one thing and it was clear that it was not the correct solution / answer, and he felt that trying to contact other schools that might be able to clear things up would be preferable to just burying his head in his hands is exactly the reason why asking the question here was a good idea. If we want to trace it back, the fact that he may not be aware of what the NEN / BECTA roadmap is may not be his fault (thanks for putting the link up cybernerd) but due to a lack of communication on many fronts. 1
adamf Posted January 27, 2008 Author Posted January 27, 2008 Fedaykin, you seem to know the answer to my problem but still you want to make me jump through hoops with the service desk in order to get this problem solved. Surly the forum is about helping each other out regardless or not of whether we are part of the managed service. I suspect most (if not all of us) have the option of support provied by our LA Education ICT Support team, but yet we post our problems/questions on edugeek and help each other out - even though we have access to a service desk! Why can't you help out? (just this once)
CyberNerd Posted January 27, 2008 Posted January 27, 2008 Schools should not be the identity provider except on local (ie LAN) access. The regional IDP should be the RBC, with connections in place so that the information is passed upstream from the school to the RBC to keep it up to date. @grumbledook Does this preclude schools from implementing authentication methods other than what is dictated by the LA/RBC ? I'm hearing whispers locally that were are all to be tied into the LA's AD at Capita's request (SIMS web access) and I can forsee the managed VLE going the same route, with little regard to the shibboleth method.
GrumbleDook Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 RBCs and LAs are all meant to be going down the route of using the standards from the UK access management federation which deals with shibboleth, etc. Some may use alternative as a stepping stone but shibboleth is the way it is going. Ask your LA for a roadmap or timeline as well as asking them if they have sighed up to the uk access management federation. They may not meet all the criterpa for it yet but they should be aware of it as the target. If you still get a blank ask them how they intend to join the NEN
Fedaykin Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Fedaykin, you seem to know the answer to my problem but still you want to make me jump through hoops with the service desk in order to get this problem solved. Surly the forum is about helping each other out regardless or not of whether we are part of the managed service. I suspect most (if not all of us) have the option of support provied by our LA Education ICT Support team, but yet we post our problems/questions on edugeek and help each other out - even though we have access to a service desk! Why can't you help out? (just this once) I wouldn't call it jumping through hoops, Fronter has a very good service desk who I have happily used on the rare occasion I have needed their support. They are the best people to help you out. To be honest if you attended the standard admin training you should be able to work this one out.
Fedaykin Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Try not to take this the wrong way ... the fact that he felt that he *had* to bring it here after he had a been told one thing and it was clear that it was not the correct solution / answer, and he felt that trying to contact other schools that might be able to clear things up would be preferable to just burying his head in his hands is exactly the reason why asking the question here was a good idea. If we want to trace it back, the fact that he may not be aware of what the NEN / BECTA roadmap is may not be his fault (thanks for putting the link up cybernerd) but due to a lack of communication on many fronts. Fronter is his best port of call ... end of story.
GrumbleDook Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Fronter is his best port of call ... end of story. Hmm ... the OP says he has a problem with Fronter that, in spite of asking why, he is not getting information about. He has asked if others have come across the same? Yeah ... I can really see how calling the Fronter support desk would answer his question. I suggest you go back and read the original post ... and then think carefully before you post. 1
Fedaykin Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Hmm ... the OP says he has a problem with Fronter that, in spite of asking why, he is not getting information about. He has asked if others have come across the same? Yeah ... I can really see how calling the Fronter support desk would answer his question. I suggest you go back and read the original post ... and then think carefully before you post. Because they can. Yes I did read his first post and I told him he went to the wrong place to ask the question then told him the correct place and a direct phone number. Can't be bothered to argue over this anymore if he doesn't want to lift a phone up and have a phone conversation with some people I know can help him then thats his own look out. Not my problem and I'm not going to talk about it anymore... 2
gaz350 Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Not my problem and I'm not going to talk about it anymore... Must remember that Fedaykin. Have a problem in future and you need help i am sure everyone will be jumping through hoops to help you......
russdev Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Well when have solved problem (if that is by calling fronter) can you post the answer up for other people. Hence why this site exists to provide community with selfhelp and support. Russell
TechMonkey Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Sorry to go OT but with the new thanks system is this going to lead to bouts of Irono-thanking as further up?
Fronter Posted April 8, 2008 Posted April 8, 2008 I've been using Fronter since November (not rolled it out to the school yet) and I've come across a problem with student passwords. We imported our MIS data and all staff and student were allocated a username and password - I was able to view them all so I can distribute them. Sometime between then and now all the student usernames have changed and passwords are no longer viewable. I called the LgFL and they said the usernames has changed to reflect the usernames that we use to logon to our network - they bear no resemblance to them!! As they don't seem to be able to offer me an explanation as to why they had changed. Has anybody else seen this? I need to find a way to bulk reset the passwords at the same time! Adam. It sounds like your usernames have been updated to be USO usernames/passwords. If you are not familiar with USO (Unified Sign on) it is a service provide through Atomwide by LGfL which integrates with your AD so that you have one username and password which gains you access to ALL system. I would advise you contact your LA and they will be able to give you more information about the USO and how it has been implemented. Regards Tom Soron Fronter UK
adamf Posted April 12, 2008 Author Posted April 12, 2008 @Fronter Tom, it was the USO in the end and it took a fair amount of time to get this info out of the LA - someone decided it would be a good idea to implement it without telling anyone! Once they put me in contact with Atomwide the problem was resolved.
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