Major new project - major help required!

[Trapper]

Hello All,

 

Our school is expanding very shortly from what is basically a small primary to a larger primary, a mid-sized secondary and a small Post-16 centre. The server kit has to expand with it!

 

I know what is staying in primary, and post-16 are getting the same but I am not sure what to do about secondary.

 

The last time I put a refresh of servers in was 6 years ago. We went for HP Blades and storage array. Is this still something you'd do?

 

Find a free blade enclosure get 3 top spec blades to run as virtual hosts and full everything from a large SAN?

 

When this little problem is sorted, I just need to figure out how different "sites" work in Active Directory and DFS replication to ensure users home drives and shared folders are on a server at all three sites and replicate quietly.

 

Any ideas?! Think of it as a bit of a blue sky session as well!

[Oaktech]

Hello All,

 

Our school is expanding very shortly from what is basically a small primary to a larger primary, a mid-sized secondary and a small Post-16 centre. The server kit has to expand with it!

 

I know what is staying in primary, and post-16 are getting the same but I am not sure what to do about secondary.

 

The last time I put a refresh of servers in was 6 years ago. We went for HP Blades and storage array. Is this still something you'd do?

 

Find a free blade enclosure get 3 top spec blades to run as virtual hosts and full everything from a large SAN?

 

When this little problem is sorted, I just need to figure out how different "sites" work in Active Directory and DFS replication to ensure users home drives and shared folders are on a server at all three sites and replicate quietly.

 

Any ideas?! Think of it as a bit of a blue sky session as well!

 

When my last place went from a secondary to primary/secondary/free school MAT we put a 150mb duplex wireless link in between the primary and the secondary, ran the primary as a separate domain but with a domain trust in place. The kit at the primary was a single HPML3 something G6 tower server with 96gb of ram and 4tb of DAS. We ran the traffic across the senior network on a vlan and routed it at the core switch. The primary's internet also came from the senior school. The freeschool was on a 10gb fibre with a single large HP ZL switch and a RODC with branch office as an extension of the senior school domain. The idea eventually was to have them on their own domain, but it was all set up in such a hurry that it didn't materialise. The main kit at the senior school was 4 HP DL380G8 servers with 128gb of ram and 28tb of EMC san.

 

I'm not saying this is a great solution, but it was good kit and could be reconfigured any which way to suit.

[PotNoodleTech]

IMHO blades are totally overkill for schools, I would go for two normal good spec servers and a shared SAS JBOD storage array.

[mthomas08]

Hello All,

 

Our school is expanding very shortly from what is basically a small primary to a larger primary, a mid-sized secondary and a small Post-16 centre. The server kit has to expand with it!

 

I know what is staying in primary, and post-16 are getting the same but I am not sure what to do about secondary.

 

The last time I put a refresh of servers in was 6 years ago. We went for HP Blades and storage array. Is this still something you'd do?

 

Find a free blade enclosure get 3 top spec blades to run as virtual hosts and full everything from a large SAN?

 

When this little problem is sorted, I just need to figure out how different "sites" work in Active Directory and DFS replication to ensure users home drives and shared folders are on a server at all three sites and replicate quietly.

 

Any ideas?! Think of it as a bit of a blue sky session as well!

 

Depends really, is this a place that could potentially expand even further? If planning ahead to even more equipment, users and IT reliance I would always aim for the moon. The amount of times I was told to "hold back" on things and my gut feeling of going all out was always spot on. One of the things I got in my current job when I turned up years ago was a brand new Virtual Server which cost a bomb and a half but it's been fantastic for our needs for all the "extra" servers we needed. Obviously doesn't include exchange, user data, SIMs.net.

 

Still when it comes to servers, I like the term DHB and DIP (Don't hold back and Do it Properly).

[Trapper]

I thought so. The problem we have is the sites are so far apart (1/2 mile to 1.5 miles) that the links need to be run between 100Mbps (primary and secondary) and 10Mbps (Post-16) internet links.

 

I've been told all staff need access to ALL files where ever they are as staff are expected to move a lot between sites. This is worrying me with the data replication, it's also why we need the same domain across all three sites with a DC at each.

[Oaktech]

I thought so. The problem we have is the sites are so far apart (1/2 mile to 1.5 miles) that the links need to be run between 100Mbps (primary and secondary) and 10Mbps (Post-16) internet links.

 

I've been told all staff need access to ALL files where ever they are as staff are expected to move a lot between sites. This is worrying me with the data replication, it's also why we need the same domain across all three sites with a DC at each.

 

I would be investigating the possibility of renting some dark fibre, or if that is out of the question financially, then look at the Ubiquiti Airfiber or the Ligo wave ptp kits, they are good for a mile or two depending on terrain and obstructions.

[Trapper]

Nothing we can do. No spare fibre on our road at all. Four schools and two NHS centres it's all gone. The distance between the sites is all public roads and pavements, there is no way we could get close to the cost for the public works to install our own. The sites are also not even close to line of sight!

[Joanne]

1 word.... Cloud.

 

Seems to be the best in this situation. Unless you can get a really reliable link going.

[Oaktech]

Nothing we can do. No spare fibre on our road at all. Four schools and two NHS centres it's all gone. The distance between the sites is all public roads and pavements, there is no way we could get close to the cost for the public works to install our own. The sites are also not even close to line of sight!

 

Speak to virgin, they do a thing called private circuit which is essentially them creating a vlan on their network and routing it so it behaves as if it is yours. they can also send it over an existing connection as well, so in theory your internet could continue on an existing fibre and have the VLAN traffic added to it.

[SchoolsBroadband]

Nothing we can do. No spare fibre on our road at all. Four schools and two NHS centres it's all gone. The distance between the sites is all public roads and pavements, there is no way we could get close to the cost for the public works to install our own. The sites are also not even close to line of sight!

 

This is actually very easy to do. You can do point to point witless that distance at gbit speeds or private point to point circuits running at 100mbit, 1gbit and even 10gbit.

 

If you like a quote let me know and I'll pm you a quick one. We've done this for lots of schools already.

 

Good luck.

 

David

[GrumbleDook]

Surely some string would work, as long as it is kept taut? (Remember this phrase when someone in the school says something like, "But I can get fast broadband at home in next to no time ... why does it take so long and cost so much?")

[Joanne]

heavy duty string though, not this cheap twine you can get from home bargains!!

[pcstru]

This is actually very easy to do. You can do point to point witless that distance at gbit speeds or private point to point circuits running at 100mbit, 1gbit and even 10gbit.

Now you say it, I think some of our users may be on this 'witless' network.

[witch]

Now you say it, I think some of our users may be on this 'witless' network.

 

That's made my day

[bald_pig]

VPN between sites?

 

On a positive note, if you sort out data replication between sites you'll have one hell of a dr system!

[PotNoodleTech]

Would be fairly easy to do if you use Hyper V for the server on each site, you could enable hyper-v replica to replicate back up to the main site server room. In the event of a disaster on one of the sites, you can spool up re replica copy of their entire network in your main site in a matter of minutes?

[zebulunn]

Surely some string would work, as long as it is kept taut? (Remember this phrase when someone in the school says something like, "But I can get fast broadband at home in next to no time ... why does it take so long and cost so much?")

This reminds me of the time the bursar got a quote of £15.99 a month for broadband at our new site...

[Joanne]

This reminds me of the time the bursar got a quote of £15.99 a month for broadband at our new site...

 

you should have told them to go for it. Then laugh when the price jumps up immensely!

[JoeBloggs]

I use Virgin's point to point fibre - so all our branches are basically on one giant LAN across the city.

[SchoolsBroadband]

Now you say it, I think some of our users may be on this 'witless' network.

 

Have you never heard of a witless network?! It lacks depth that's for sure

 

Sorry folks the predictive text on my HTC can be a bit random to say the least ;-)

[Mr_Jiminy]

Did anything progress with this?

 

We are in a similar position whereby a small primary school and bigger high school site within the same MAT, would like to share data across two, until now, separate networks. The two sites are approximately 5 miles apart and the high school site has rather a small IT department with limited knowledge. Based on the limited support at the high school and with a number of methods available, we find ourselves in a cautious position of not knowing which is the most practical solution.

[SchoolsBroadband]

Did anything progress with this?

 

We are in a similar position whereby a small primary school and bigger high school site within the same MAT, would like to share data across two, until now, separate networks. The two sites are approximately 5 miles apart and the high school site has rather a small IT department with limited knowledge. Based on the limited support at the high school and with a number of methods available, we find ourselves in a cautious position of not knowing which is the most practical solution.

 

 

Hi @Mr_Jiminy,

 

a BT EAD fibre link would do the job perfectly. It'd also allow the primary school to "piggy back" from the secondary schools Internet connection which is generally faster than that of a primary schools.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Trapper]

Sadly it's all through the LEA. A 100Mbps fibre at the primary and secondary with a 10Mbps at the Post 16.

 

The whole enterprise has been pushed back two weeks, so for the time being the secondary site will have to access everything from the primaries servers. Kids start at the same date, regardless of the timetable changing!

[mthomas08]

Sadly it's all through the LEA.

 

And sadly, this will turn out to be your fault. When things maybe go slow they will turn their attention to you....