MCSE vs CCNA Which is best?

[CyberNerd]

Some of these people passed the course and got a ccna, but no f*** all!

 

sounds like some of the MCSEs I've met.

[strawberry]

sounds like some of the MCSEs I've met.

 

and dare i say it some teachers! there are people out tehre from all walks of life with pieces of paper that are not worthy of such awards

[Grommit]

WHAT??? CCNA is a hard cert to achieve. How exactly do these high school kiddies get a good level of Cisco hardware experience. As an MCSA on 2k and 2k3 i can tell you they're not rocket science 70-292 was pretty damn hard but they aren't looked on any more favourably than Cisco exams, in fact they're very different fields so the question you need to ask is what job am i looking for then decide on the cert.

 

I'm just talking about the CCNA cert here nothing more..

 

CCNA is done in a lot of High schools and as well FREE in as local "Computer Centres" around london for the unemployed , as well as "local" non english community.. and single mothers

 

And we all sat there at the end of each chapter and helped everyone answer the questions..

 

The problem was.. that most of the people on the courses had never seen a server in their lives and didn't know that the AD was more powerful then the router ACL...

 

We all sat in a room with a couple of routers in a lab and had fun laughing, chatting, and the rest while we loaded up the router interface and entered the ACL's, daisy chained the routers and the rest.. all the while getting unemployment a travel card and a free lunch..

Edited July 24, 2008 by Grommit

[cookie_monster]

I love the cheapening and dumbing down of our profession, we really need a professional body to look after our interests. Can you imagine popping down the unemployment centre and someone wheeling a few corpses in "today it's surgery 101 kids", I don’t think so. Hopefully no one will be daft enough to hire any of these people into a network architect role.

[ChrisH]

I have also heard about the CCNA stuff done at colleges. They fail the exam one day then take it again (the exact same one!) on another day after looking up the answers they were not sure about.

[Guest Guest]

Well i hope the CCNA exams are as easy as people are making out as i couldnt see any school kiddie or unemployed crackhead being able to pass an exam at the level i have been trained to. Put it this way we had 2 NMs and a techie drop out of the course (and that was out of only 5 of us!)

[flashsnaps]

I have also heard about the CCNA stuff done at colleges. They fail the exam one day then take it again (the exact same one!) on another day after looking up the answers they were not sure about.

 

Yeah they use to do this, they're let you write the questions down as you go as well, and when you come to do it the next day - same questions, possibly a different order if your unlucky that is.

[Grommit]

Well i hope the CCNA exams are as easy as people are making out as i couldnt see any school kiddie or unemployed crackhead being able to pass an exam at the level i have been trained to. Put it this way we had 2 NMs and a techie drop out of the course (and that was out of only 5 of us!)

 

We ll you have to pass a test after each chapter to progress.... what they did in the Unemployed Collage that did CCNA and Web Design..

 

was one person would do the test with all others around him/her working out the correct answers...

 

Once he/she had passed they copied and pasted all the questins and answers.. these were printed, distrubted out and all then passed the test..

 

This is done in high schools as well.. as the test is online and there is no strict invidulation and the school / collage gets rewards on the higher pass rate they get..

 

So go to your local Job Centre and ask for a CCNA course (only available if unemployed for longer then 6 months or if you have a disability..) no experience of even touching a PC necessary

[RabbieBurns]

when I sat the CCNA at uni it was an online timed exam and the questions were genertated automatically from a pool of questions so everyone sitting it had completeley different questions. Theres 4 exams, one after each section and then a 5th at the end. I think you would get found out very quickly if you had skanked the qualification. VLSM and CIDR alone, albiet a minor part, had my head fucked for a good few weeks.

[ssiruuk2]

Seroiusly... dont pay silly money to do a CCNA or MCSE - I did my ccna for the cost of a book, some simulation software and the final exam. (£120 ish in total) - doing the same with the MCSE course aswell at the moment.

This may not suit all of course.

@ Grommit - yes you may have sat around and helped each other with the end of chapter tests (they count for nothing anyway) but to do the final proper exam for a Cisco cert it has to be held a a Prometric or Pearson VUE testing centre.. if thats the case and you were at either mentioned then they should be closed down ASAP!!

 

Im now on my CCNP, again doing it self study with a £40 book and have passed my BCMSN switching exam and deciding which to do next - Dont give thousands away for tutor support and nonsense materials etc if you don't need it - just buy the Cisco press book and get on with it.

 

In terms of which is best then as others have said it depends what you want to do - sysadmin or network engineer. I do find it very questionable that anyone with no IT experience can get a CCNA some of it is quite tough.

 

I decided recently to concentrate on getting my CCNP and to get the hell out before the day comes that I am converted into a toner monkey by RM /Ramesys / BSF!

[torledo]

Seroiusly... dont pay silly money to do a CCNA or MCSE - I did my ccna for the cost of a book, some simulation software and the final exam. (£120 ish in total) - doing the same with the MCSE course aswell at the moment.

This may not suit all of course.

@ Grommit - yes you may have sat around and helped each other with the end of chapter tests (they count for nothing anyway) but to do the final proper exam for a Cisco cert it has to be held a a Prometric or Pearson VUE testing centre.. if thats the case and you were at either mentioned then they should be closed down ASAP!!

 

Im now on my CCNP, again doing it self study with a £40 book and have passed my BCMSN switching exam and deciding which to do next - Dont give thousands away for tutor support and nonsense materials etc if you don't need it - just buy the Cisco press book and get on with it.

 

In terms of which is best then as others have said it depends what you want to do - sysadmin or network engineer. I do find it very questionable that anyone with no IT experience can get a CCNA some of it is quite tough.

 

I decided recently to concentrate on getting my CCNP and to get the hell out before the day comes that I am converted into a toner monkey by RM /Ramesys / BSF!

 

the ccna courses at local cisco academies in FE colleges do not test for the ccna certification....end of chapter/end of semester tests that lead to getting the academy cert is what grommit is talking about i'm sure and not the ccna itself. There's no reason why an FE college that runs the academy ccna courses cannot apply to become a prometric testing centre - but that is distinct from the ccna 'tests' as part of the academy curriculum. individual has to register for the test seperately, all the academies can do is provide a discount on the cost of the exam.

 

The ccna courses are very popular and many are fully subsidised for those already in full-time education or on benefits. Most of them are also priced low enough and delivered in a manner agreeable to employers i.e evening or saturdays so there's no reason why the employer shouldn't stump up the money if it's available as part of an individuals or depts. training budget....

 

books are fine, sims are fine...millions do it that way. Don't pay out of your own pocket for any ccna course, some of the teaching at local academies is very variable and the ccna courses that promise 30k salaries at other establishments are extortionate. At collges/uni Some have tutors with great wealth of knowledge others have instructors who are very wet behind the ears.

[ssiruuk2]

yes i am aware of all of that torledo. I started at a cisco academy and moved to doing it from the book myself on the basis of the quality of the tutors

You will always have to pay out of your own pocket even if the course is run for free.. Exam is £90 a shot

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[Grommit]

Troytecs

[torledo]

yes i am aware of all of that torledo. I started at a cisco academy and moved to doing it from the book myself on the basis of the quality of the tutors

You will always have to pay out of your own pocket even if the course is run for free.. Exam is £90 a shot

Posted via Mobile Device

 

I'm not saying don't pay out of your pocket for the exam, although why can't the employer pay for the exam ? Especially as after an academy course there's a 40% discount voucher for the exam from what i remember.

 

I did the academy route after uni, course was subbed, didn't take the exam but got through all four semesters and passed the course tests to get my academy certificates. Semester 1 was very good because of the quality of the instructor.....2-4 and the teaching was underwhelming. Like you grommit i saw all sorts on the course, ICT teacher, Microsoft sysadmins, unemployed, students, IT manager [netware], electronics engineer. It wasn't the case that everyone wanted to be there but most of us wanted to put the effort in and we were all at different levels of understanding, that's why the quality of teaching is so important. In an academy class, like any other trainign class, you'll get people who want to ask questions to further their understanding and people who don't ask a thing becuase it's all flown right over their heads and you can tell they've already pretty much given up the ghost.

 

As an instructor you need to be able to deal with all sorts and keep everyone interested. An academy course will not necessarily be full of self-starters and motivated professionals.

 

Personally i could never just pick up a book and 'get' all the info on VLSM, router ACL's etc. just from reading from pages. Attending the course was worthwhile in terms of understanding difficult topics.

[RabbieBurns]

Am i correct in thinking the CCNA has changed recently? I last sat it through my uni, is it straight forward enough to sign up to just sit it yourself?