MK-2 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 Nottingham City has (supposedly) chosen it's preferred bidder but the chances of us being told are slim.....they like us to know as little as possible. I've tried the BSF and council website and nothing there. Is there anywhere that lists which preferred bidders were chosen by which authorities? Just curious as to who our new fuhrers will be.
russdev Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 You would know if been chosen as it has to be very public etc Russell
Geoff Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 The company involved usually proudly issues a press release exclaiming the fact they've been chosen. Check the websites of the companies that have been short listed as bidders.
broc Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 I suspect the reason it is not yet public domain will be due to legal reasons such as getting the paperwork and terms & conditions sorted and agreeing a formal joint press release. Both the LA and the successful bidder will want to say how wonderful it will all be........
MK-2 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Posted January 7, 2008 well, we weren't even told the shortlisted bidders, as we kept getting told "i've had to sign a disclosure saying i wont say who the bidders are for confidentiality reasons" i'd have been happier if they just said 'why should you care, you wont have a job here soon' it's definitely been sorted as we were told they were making a decision last week of last term, so possibly paperwork and t&c like broc says.
Geoff Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 As per this document: http://open.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/comm/download3.asp?dltype=inline&filename=26525/BSFreportfeb07.doc The bidders are the following: Inspired Spaces Investors in the Community Learning21 Miller Skanska Transform Schools Vinci Investments
MK-2 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Posted January 7, 2008 Geoff, this just goes to show how well we are thought of in this school. We were told that the shortlist can't be disclosed for confidentiality. Obviously more BS. I've looked on Miller and Transform School sites and neither mention it, so I'm assuming its Inspired Spaces. But of course it can't be confirmed or I'd have to sign the secrecy act and then be shot
Geoff Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 Which school are you from btw? I can probably find out what's planned to happen to it.
MK-2 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Posted January 7, 2008 Hadden Park High School. The proposed plans are to turn this into a sort of super campus, encompassing us, the primary school, the special school, the sports stadium, a police station, the lot. We were initially told it was going to be complete rebuild but its now completing 'refurbishment' of the building. If you know anything on the IT side, do tell Or PM if necessary.
GrumbleDook Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 The shortlist *has* to be publically announced as part of the process ... this is to give people a chance to challenge. If you are not happy that the process has been transparent then you can report this back to P4S ... beware ... politics will happen. Also check that it was not just a case that *you* weren't told ... but if someone in Manglement had asked they would have been.
MK-2 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Posted January 7, 2008 GD: Our boss, the head of IT was involved in all the BSF meetings and marking of the bidders etc. When she came back from the meeting my immediate boss (senior tech) and I asked her what bidders were chosen and were told we cant be told anything as its confidential. She said she couldn't tell us which companies or what each company was proposing in terms of keeping technical staff on. It wasn't a case of us asking and management not. It was us asking a person who had sat in the meeting when they must have said 'the preferred bidders are x x and x' and then told us they are sworn to secrecy. I'm not bothered to be honest, if I'm going to leave, I will, which bidder is chosen won't mean the difference in me staying or going. I think it stems from the fact that when my boss and I said we were unhappy with the whole BSF thing so would probably look for other work because chances are we'll be outsourced or have very little server work here, the school thought that the less they tell us then the less we can use for leaving. Our head promised us on about 5 occasions that our contracts would stay with the school, 100% guarantee, then asking him again sometime earlier this year he said 'well yes it might change'. They do not want us to know stuff in case we say 'sod it I'm off then'
Geoff Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 As per this document: http://open.nottinghamcity.gov.uk/comm/download3.asp?dltype=inline&filename=29972/071025_Review_BSF.doc Your school is listed as being given a 'Refurbish'. As for specific IT stuff, there is a little hint in that document as to a working group being setup to produce a output specification. I suggest you attempt to find out who is on this working group, and if this output specification has been finalised.
MK-2 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Posted January 7, 2008 The 'group' that was set up to decide what was needed I believe included the head of IT here who, from my previous post, was the one who told us we can't know the bidders. Our input to this was asking the questions like 'what will our roles be, will we be at the school or roaming' etc. She asked the questions, got vague answers and then said she couldn't tell us those answers either.
GrumbleDook Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 GD: Our boss, the head of IT was involved in all the BSF meetings and marking of the bidders etc. When she came back from the meeting my immediate boss (senior tech) and I asked her what bidders were chosen and were told we cant be told anything as its confidential. She said she couldn't tell us which companies or what each company was proposing in terms of keeping technical staff on. It wasn't a case of us asking and management not. It was us asking a person who had sat in the meeting when they must have said 'the preferred bidders are x x and x' and then told us they are sworn to secrecy. I'm not bothered to be honest, if I'm going to leave, I will, which bidder is chosen won't mean the difference in me staying or going. Eek ... the worst thing you can do is ask someone involved in the process. You will *never* get a straight answer there! The problem with being involved in things like this is that you *do* get told by the Chair or Exec that you are not allowed to discuss things until it is made public. This really does mean that she could not say anything to you. However, when it was made public then she could have had a decent chat with you about it ... presuming she was aware that is was now public. I know of some tenders where people involved had kept quiet for weeks, only to find that a press announcement had already been made and they had not been told. Don't forget to factor in the stupidity of committees into all this ... when it comes to keeping people informed, every presumes someone else is doing it!
Geoff Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 The 'group' that was set up to decide what was needed I believe included the head of IT here who, from my previous post, was the one who told us we can't know the bidders. Our input to this was asking the questions like 'what will our roles be, will we be at the school or roaming' etc. She asked the questions, got vague answers and then said she couldn't tell us those answers either. I fail to see how the working group can produce a realistic workable output specification in such a situation. Your BSF IT roll out is likely to be a disaster as a result. I suggest you don your tin hat and duck and cover.
MK-2 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Posted January 7, 2008 Can't afford tin hats, budget wont cover it Luckily we still have a few cadburys roses tins left over from Christmas. They'll do! Just been told (well, I was saying it and boss confirmed it) that the now two choices for Nottingham are Inspired Spaces and Transform Schools. Inspired Spaces has Ramesys as IT and Transform has Northgate. Ramesys is less than 5min walk from our school, but can't find much on Northgate, apart from their site stating they just got the IT contract for Cadbury Schwepps. So trips to sort out the dairy milk production could be on hand
Geoff Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 There is a thread on Northgate here: http://www.edugeek.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13276 Perhaps you should talk to beeswax?
Grommit Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) Our head promised us on about 5 occasions that our contracts would stay with the school, 100% guarantee, then asking him again sometime earlier this year he said 'well yes it might change'. They do not want us to know stuff in case we say 'sod it I'm off then' This has happened to many many ICT Support Staff... at the start when the big shock hits that the school loses control of the ICT the Senior Managers say "we're with you and behind you and over our dead bodies" etc.. But then the money comes rollin in and the conditions are told .. then it's... "maybe you might not be employed by the school any more, or sorry my hands are tied, or it's the system"... Yep heard it first hand from the other county schools to thier ICT Staff as well.. Why isn't the ICT Manager at the meetings ? is your Boss the ICT Manager ? Also what is to consider is the cost of £90 per pupil for the Support.. So a school of 1200 pupils will cost £108,000.00 per year for very basic support 8:30 to 5.. just for the PC's, Printers and servers... any thing else is additional.. BSF pays for the first year but for the rest of the 4 years of the contract the school has to find the funding themselves.. What do you and your boss cost the school and how much additional support do you give... This is where the BSF is BAD value for money.. Destroys the ICT Community of a school... Edited January 7, 2008 by Grommit
broc Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 According to http://www.cnplus.co.uk/News/nottingham_90m_bsf_project_down_to_two_consortia.html;jsessionid=39A02FF83E90FAB903A3AE3245F12B5C dated 19th Nov 2007 "Nottingham City Council has shortlisted two consortia for the £90 million first phase Nottingham Building Schools for the Future scheme in the East Midlands. The shortlist for the scheme has been whittled down to Inspired Spaces, led by Carillion, and Transform Schools, led by Balfour Beatty and Mansell."
Geoff Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 It's worth noting that neither of these short listed consortium have any major in-house IT specialism. Presumably they'll contract it out.
gaz350 Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 It's worth noting that neither of these short listed consortium have any major in-house IT specialism. Presumably they'll contract it out. another man in the middle taking his cut.
Grommit Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 another man in the middle taking his cut. and less service... Why is it that everyone thinks that paying double for ICT support and getting a much lower service is a good thing? All you are really getting is a locked down inflexable network...
CyberNerd Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 GD: Our boss, the head of IT was involved in all the BSF meetings and marking of the bidders etc. When she came back from the meeting my immediate boss (senior tech) and I asked her what bidders were chosen and were told we cant be told anything as its confidential. She said she couldn't tell us which companies or what each company was proposing in terms of keeping technical staff on. It wasn't a case of us asking and management not. It was us asking a person who had sat in the meeting when they must have said 'the preferred bidders are x x and x' and then told us they are sworn to secrecy. I'm not bothered to be honest, if I'm going to leave, I will, which bidder is chosen won't mean the difference in me staying or going. I think it stems from the fact that when my boss and I said we were unhappy with the whole BSF thing so would probably look for other work because chances are we'll be outsourced or have very little server work here, the school thought that the less they tell us then the less we can use for leaving. Our head promised us on about 5 occasions that our contracts would stay with the school, 100% guarantee, then asking him again sometime earlier this year he said 'well yes it might change'. They do not want us to know stuff in case we say 'sod it I'm off then' The indication is that staff will be TUPE'd across to the preferred bidder? Whats the union doing? Consultation is supposed to be taking place elevating worries and concerns over employment contracts etc. get onto your unison branch asap. in a normal council/outsourcing bidding process (non bsf), a council will invite bids with a broad specification and different companies will put in their bids. The invitation to tender will be a public advert. What is going on here does sound peculiar to say the least, but anything that is decided will be minuted, and you can get that info if you choose - all council minutes are publicly available. Anything that you are not sure about you can get from a Freedom of Information act search - give an FOI list to the head teacher/LA if your union are doing nothing. If they fail to give the information within 20 working days they are in breach of the law. - The only information that is confidential and commercially sensitive is the price of the bid.
GrumbleDook Posted January 7, 2008 Report Posted January 7, 2008 The only information that is confidential and commercially sensitive is the price of the bid. 'Fraid not. Lots of information can be deemed commercially sensitive and will not be released in case it prejudices their bid in comparison to another bidder. If that wasn't the case then all that other bidders would have to do would be to issue an FOI request, work out what your costs are likely to be and then undercut you by 2%. In an ongoing competitive bid situation information will only be given to those involved in scoring of the bids, or working on criteria to score the bids.
MK-2 Posted January 8, 2008 Author Report Posted January 8, 2008 It's worth noting that neither of these short listed consortium have any major in-house IT specialism. Presumably they'll contract it out. Yep, as I said earlier (I think), Inspired Spaces has Ramesys as their IT, and Transform has Northgate.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now