Pete10141748 Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Does anyone know that actual date that XP will no longer be on retail/OEM sale? I've read in some places that its as early as 30th Jan 2008, other places say its June 2008, and others still say its Jan 2009! Anyone know? Also, I've read on the Dell forums that many of thier products no longer even have the option for coming with XP pre-installed, and that Vista is the only choice being offered, with 'downgrade rights' allowed but (legally) only a retail-purchased copy of XP can be used, not any existing liscence! Surely that's a bit off? What are people here planning on doing with regards to Vista? Are you going to enbrace it, or put it off for as long as you can? I'm in two minds about it really, its going to cause some problems but then again what major change doesn't to begin with?
kearton Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Does anyone know that actual date that XP will no longer be on retail/OEM sale? I've read in some places that its as early as 30th Jan 2008, other places say its June 2008, and others still say its Jan 2009! Anyone know? According to Microsoft, it's all 3, depending who you are... http://www.microsoft.com/windows/lifecycle/default.mspx
localzuk Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 Also, I've read on the Dell forums that many of thier products no longer even have the option for coming with XP pre-installed, and that Vista is the only choice being offered, with 'downgrade rights' allowed but (legally) only a retail-purchased copy of XP can be used, not any existing liscence! Surely that's a bit off? The downgrade rights mean you can call Microsoft and demand a copy of XP to install instead of Vista. You can't transfer a previous OEM licensed copy over, as it is tied to the machine it came on, but MS will provide you with one. What are people here planning on doing with regards to Vista? Are you going to enbrace it, or put it off for as long as you can? I'm burying my head as deep in the sand as I can. I'm in two minds about it really, its going to cause some problems but then again what major change doesn't to begin with? A well planned major change doesn't... It should not be a given that problems will follow a major update, it should be a rarity. *Comes back to the real world*
CyberNerd Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 What are people here planning on doing with regards to Vista? Are you going to enbrace it, or put it off for as long as you can? we will probably deploy it when: a) Becta ok it for schools use b) we can afford the hardware c) we can afford the software d) all the software we have runs on it e) The team get sufficient training from MS Linux/Terminal services is looking much more promising though.
Domino Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 I plan on this installation method for vista... http://www.gofish.com/player.gfp?gfid=30-1078044
Norphy Posted January 3, 2008 Posted January 3, 2008 My bosses are dead against Vista and to be honest, I don't blame them. I don't mind having it on my personal machine (much) but from what I've seen of it so far, it's a real pain in the bum on a real network. We're going to be rebuilding our college soon (nothing to do with BSF thankfully so my job is safe!) and we're looking into alternatives for when we move into the new building. At the moment, an Ericom enhanced terminal server farm is the favourite option but I guess we'll see how things pan out.
SimpleSi Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 If Dell are not helping you deploy XP, tell them your off to buy from someone who is. Fujitsu have got this message and supply a DVD than runs and 30 mins later, machine is running XP And they support it regards Simon PS If every Net Manager in the world says no to Vista.....
broc Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 What are people here planning on doing with regards to Vista? Are you going to enbrace it, or put it off for as long as you can? We will delay replacing XP for as long as we can. I looked at the case for moving to Vista/Office 2007 and concluded there were no immediate benefits and in any case we have no funds to make the move. As we are due to be 'refurbished' by BSF in 2011 I would expect that is when we will make the move from XP. It's anybody's guess where we might end up though, Vista is by no means a certainty. Who knows what the 'experts' might dream up for us as part of BSF
enjay Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I looked at the case for moving to Vista/Office 2007 and concluded there were no immediate benefits I'd agree with you on Vista, but I'm not sure it's true of Office 2007 - the "advanced" features are more accessible, so more likely to be found/remembered/used by the users. As we are due to be 'refurbished' by BSF in 2011 I would expect that is when we will make the move from XP. It's anybody's guess where we might end up though, Vista is by no means a certainty. The next incarnation of Windows will be out by then, maybe you'll get that :-)
tech_guy Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 I plan on this installation method for vista... http://www.gofish.com/player.gfp?gfid=30-1078044 ACE!
gwendes Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Don't like Vista or Office 2007 and no one I work with likes them. We've rolled out to a few computers (mine included) and gone back in all cases. Vista is slower, supports less hardware and software, and has moved things around POINTLESSLY. XP works. Why do Microsoft think it's ok to have shifted things so users can't find them anymore, tell my computer (when I'm admin) to check whether or not I'm aware that I'm installing software/drivers/whatever... grrr... I can't support something when I don't know how things are done myself - I can't learn where things are because the OS is trying to hide things from me! We have licenses for Vista and Office 2007- I'm going to fight!
Pete10141748 Posted January 4, 2008 Author Posted January 4, 2008 Seems no-one likes Vista! We have it on 1 laptop (which stays with us in the tech room) and 2 laptops which were given to the Head and Deputy Head, as well as another Vista laptop personally belonging to a trainee. Had no problems with any of them so far, and the H&DH both like using Vista now they are used to it. The reason for my OP was that a lot of equipment we have here is getting old, and replacements are going to be occuring throughout the coming year. We can't afford to buy a lot of equipment before the middle of the year, by which time XP may not come installed on any machine. I'm a bit worried that downgrading to XP may have reprocussions (such as drivers / recovery disks not working properly, problems with warranties as has been mentioned on here before, etc) and it also seems a bit daft to buy what is essentially a higher grade machine (dual core, masses of RAM / HD etc) and then stick XP on it thus not using the PC to its potential (or maybe thats just me, I do tend to want to push things as far as they'll go!) We have an e-learning centre here in Luton, and all of thier ICT suites, laptops and other machines all use Vista and Office 2007. It all seemed to run pretty smoothly when I visited the centre before christmas, and so this has me wondering if a lot of the "fear of problems with Vista" hype comes from fear of change combined with the few issues that are actually known. Hmm, more reserarch is needed I think. @ gwendes; you said that I can't support something when I don't know how things are done myself but surely with any new piece of software (even hardware) you have to learn how to use it before you can support it? For me, I think its good to look into how other things work, and not just know the old 'tried and tested' stuff. Have you used any other OS's besides windows? Didn't you have to figure out things in them too? There were differences between Windows versions too, OK maybe not so much as in XP>Vista but there were. After using something for many years, of course making a change is going to seem like a pain, just as I'm sure that when XP came out people said the same things they are saying now. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, thats just my POV.
gwendes Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 If it was easy to use I wouldn't mind but Vista made my life miserable and I have a good PC. Everything ground to a halt- a fresh install sent my CPU fan frantically whirring and I couldn't some of my software. Vista felt the need to harrass me constantly asking whether I /really/ wanted to be doing x to my computer... when I turned off this hypervisor-like feature it refused to install new software and threw up error messages. I just think there should be an 'admin' mode where it accepts what you are doing without question - at the moment it behaves like a 3-year-old - CONSTANT questions. They've made it unbearable for me to use (as an advanced Windows user) and therefore I can't help out people getting stuck with randomly moved features. While I'm at it - WHY have Microsoft been removing the 'File' toolbar? Is it THAT ugly? I find it very useful. This is turning into a FFS - but seriously, Microsoft, give me XP Ultra Edition, include DX10 and I'll be happy. I have used many other operating systems - I have MacOSX/XP/Ubuntu at home and various machines at work - I'm happy to play with whatever the latest OS is like a new toy and jumped installed early betas and RCs of Vista - eagerly awaiting the final release. I don't think it's a good idea for the end user to have things changed for the hell of it... that makes more work for me and my colleagues. And btw - I don't know about anyone else but I was delighted with XP from day one... it took a little getting used to but at least there was still a 'Start' button
meastaugh1 Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 The reason for my OP was that a lot of equipment we have here is getting old, and replacements are going to be occuring throughout the coming year. We can't afford to buy a lot of equipment before the middle of the year, by which time XP may not come installed on any machine. If the system builder license availability date is Jan 09, does that mean we should be able to buy machines with XP until that date?
enjay Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Seems no-one likes Vista! I like it actually, and I much prefer the ways it handles copying/moving files and folders (except for the time issue, but that's fixed apparently) and the hyperlink style address bar is great. I haven't yet tried any of our older hardware on it yet, though. BUT... Except for the tagging (which I must play with some more), and possibly the different navigation style of the Start Menu, none of the features I've found would really benefit our users, so I'm not about to shell out on licences. but surely with any new piece of software (even hardware) you have to learn how to use it before you can support it? For me, I think its good to look into how other things work, and not just know the old 'tried and tested' stuff. That's my thinking too - at some point, we'll be going to Vista (I really can't see a Mac or Linux rollout happening here) and I'll certainly end up supporting home PCs with it, so I figured I might as well get on and learn it.
localzuk Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 Vista felt the need to harrass me constantly asking whether I /really/ wanted to be doing x to my computer... when I turned off this hypervisor-like feature it refused to install new software and threw up error messages. I just think there should be an 'admin' mode where it accepts what you are doing without question - at the moment it behaves like a 3-year-old - CONSTANT questions. They've made it unbearable for me to use (as an advanced Windows user) and therefore I can't help out people getting stuck with randomly moved features. I think that feature is actually a very good feature for the average user. OS X has a similar function and it does a good job. I don't turn it off even though I'm an 'advanced windows user' as it helps protect against software trying to install itself without my knowledge. While I'm at it - WHY have Microsoft been removing the 'File' toolbar? Is it THAT ugly? I find it very useful. It is still there - just press the alt key. I don't think it's a good idea for the end user to have things changed for the hell of it... that makes more work for me and my colleagues. That isn't the point - the point is that the new way of doing things is supposed to make life easier once you have got used to it. And in Office 2007, for example, it does. The ribbon is superb, with its keyboard shortcuts for every function. And btw - I don't know about anyone else but I was delighted with XP from day one... it took a little getting used to but at least there was still a 'Start' button I hated XP when I got it... And the start button is still there in Vista, it just isn't named Start. This shows how far you are willing to go to slag off the new OS though...
gwendes Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 ... so I figured I might as well get on and learn it. This was exactly my thinking until it drained my energy with all it's whinging and moaning... I think Windows XP Ultimate (feat. DX10) is a winner
enjay Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 This was exactly my thinking until it drained my energy with all it's whinging and moaning... I would agree with you that for someone like you or I, the feature is annoying - which is why I took the 30 seconds necessary to turn it off - but for the average home user, it seems like a good thing (how many PCs have you worked on where the owner did something daft without realising it, or without fully understanding the consequences?). The 'blind trust admin mode' which you yearn for is there, but rather than enable it, you simply disable the 'doubt everything user mode'. I must say, it does seem like you're overly keen to criticise without having given it a chance to get used to it, complaining about absent Start buttons (which are still there, in the same place even), removed File menus (which can be quickly returned if you wish to waste the screen space, but try right-clicking instead) and constant nags from security settings (which are easily disabled). All that said, some of the changes are purely for the sake of it (translucent title bars - why?!), but the vast majority of them are for the better, I think. I wonder if you had decided before using it that Vista was change for change's sake and were going to hate it, so did. Or, since you say you jumped straight into "early Beta releases" and had instability and CPU-hammering problems, perhaps its worth giving the more ironed release version a try.
localzuk Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 The translucent title bars can be explained by the ipod. People buy ipod's not because they are the best music players, but because they look stylish. People want their systems to look good - and this goes down to the toolbars and other aspects of the GUI too.
enjay Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 The translucent title bars can be explained by the ipod. People buy ipod's not because they are the best music players, but because they look stylish. People want their systems to look good - and this goes down to the toolbars and other aspects of the GUI too. Yeah, I see your point. I've got a dark wallpaper though (a black-and-white image), so they irritate me as they can make it very hard to read what they say.
mrbios Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 vistas not half bad once you work out the 100,000 preliminary kinks, just a matter of turning all the crap off, removing the pop up boxes that ask you EVERY time you do something (yes it can be turned off if you didnt know) a few more kinks have been worked out with the SP1 RC1 (not using that at home until its out of beta though) my biggest issue now is just the layout, the performance and overall usability is actually pretty good, its just getting to know where everything is and have they actually done away with thumbnail views? you can make the icons huge, but cant see the picture in a thumbnail anymore :S perhaps this is a business version thing? biggest issue at home is that EVERY time i boot my pc i have to F8 and select "disable driver signiture enforement" otherwise my USB devices are all completely dead vistas major downfall with networks is that anything under a top end single core or AMD4000/IntelE2140 is also pretty pointless and that anything under 2GB is limiting its abilities unless you spend alot of time turning off as much as physicly possible
enjay Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 and have they actually done away with thumbnail views? you can make the icons huge, but cant see the picture in a thumbnail anymore :S "Medium" size is a reasonable thumb-nail, or try "Tiles".
mac_shinobi Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 vistas not half bad once you work out the 100,000 preliminary kinks, just a matter of turning all the crap off, removing the pop up boxes that ask you EVERY time you do something (yes it can be turned off if you didnt know) a few more kinks have been worked out with the SP1 RC1 (not using that at home until its out of beta though) my biggest issue now is just the layout, the performance and overall usability is actually pretty good, its just getting to know where everything is and have they actually done away with thumbnail views? you can make the icons huge, but cant see the picture in a thumbnail anymore :S perhaps this is a business version thing? biggest issue at home is that EVERY time i boot my pc i have to F8 and select "disable driver signiture enforement" otherwise my USB devices are all completely dead vistas major downfall with networks is that anything under a top end single core or AMD4000/IntelE2140 is also pretty pointless and that anything under 2GB is limiting its abilities unless you spend alot of time turning off as much as physicly possible No offence and not trying to start a flame war but just funny how you start off with saying vistas not half bad but then you go onto explain a lot of the issues and stating how it has 100,000 kinks lol.
mrbios Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 and have they actually done away with thumbnail views? you can make the icons huge, but cant see the picture in a thumbnail anymore :S "Medium" size is a reasonable thumb-nail, or try "Tiles". well, i can get the size right but what i mean is the way it shows the actual picture rather than a file logo - sorry im really tired cant get the words out but im sure you know what i mean
mrbios Posted January 4, 2008 Posted January 4, 2008 i guess i should retype that too "vistas not too bad once you spend a few hours fixing it, after that it runs ok" i know we expect to install things and have them work, but being experts (to some degree) at least we know what we're doing to get it to run properly
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