DPA +User Areas

[localzuk]

Could you imagine the uproar amongst teachers if it was said that SMT had access to all staff areas (sorry I couldn't resist that one )

 

Well, several people in our SMT *do* have access to all staff areas...

 

That is obviously a local decision and assuming that all users involved are happy with that then that is fine. However, should a member of staff, or a student for that matter decide that such access is likely to cause damage or distress to that individual then that individual can apply to have that access removed, or curtailed.

 

As the network is for T&L, how can any access be causing damage or distress?

[pooley]

SMT have the right to access anyone's files here, apart from the heads that is.

 

In a school environment surely there should only be lesson plans, iep, etc etc nothing personal that the teacher could get upset about ?

[alan-d]

In a simplistic term 'Bullying' or using information gained from a users area to intimidate or facilitate decisions.

 

User areas are provided for personal and professional development in connection with his/her duties within the school as well as T&L activities.

[localzuk]

In a simplistic term 'Bullying' or using information gained from a users area to intimidate or facilitate decisions.

 

User areas are provided for personal and professional development in connection with his/her duties within the school as well as T&L activities.

 

Yes, but nothing in there should be able to be used for anything like that. That's the point - personal and professional development are fine, but I can't see anything for that which could be used for bullying etc... As both personal and professional development is facilitated and aided by the school and involves the member of staff's line manager anyway.

[alan-d]

Dear Mr ~~~

 

I have received your application for ~~~~~ post, but after reviewing your course work in your home folder decided to throw the application in the bin as I feel you are wasting your time, even though you have yet to complete the course.

 

You may think the above is extreme - but I have seen it happen on more than one occassion even after the DPA came in.

[pallen]

I dont believe that the full description has been given on the TES website as I have been in a similar situation myself. A teacher wants something done their way and they want it now. I have explained that this is a bad idea and there is a better way of doing it. That teacher then goes away complaining that I wont do what they want...it is not true they just need to do it a different way.

 

Our setup states that the network is there as a teaching tool, an aid to educate the kids. I dont believe it is an issue with should they be allowed to access pupils work (like an exercise book) but more of are they capable of accessing work without compramising the network. The amount of teachers that leave their computer on and go roaming round the school whilst kids are in the room amazes me. It is for this reason that do not allow all staff access to all areas of user files. There is only me here, and we have it set up so that 2 of the IT teachers can access pupils folders and transfer work so that pupils can carry on when I am not in work(for group projects). There are many ways to set up a marking system, as it can be seen from this thread, VLE, Public areas, drop off folders, all of which work better for different schools.

 

It comes down to the schools accepting that the Network manager is employed to run the network and there view should be taken above everyone elses. They are the expert and that is what the school pays for. When I started here, staff were able to do anything they wanted....admin rights for all. I changed that and it wasn't liked, however they have now accepted that the network runs better and some staff now come to me at times when new projects are being explored to limit the technicial problems they hadn't thought of.

 

I dont stop people doing things because its fun or I have a power trip, but because I am looking at it from a technical point of view. I dont care about teaching - that is what the teacher does. All I care about it ensuring the teacher can do their job and will work alongside them to ensure this happens.

 

Why do teachers insist on telling Techies how to do their job? I know the teachers are better teachers than I would be so I leave them to do their job.

[alan-d]

I bet we get blamed for this as well

[Diello]

Probably pressed Deleted instead of Enter...!

 

Just as I was replying as well... grr...

[pallen]

ok, best answer so far has to go to marcblake

 

"It seems a solution isn't being sort - but heals stuck in the ground. There are perfectly reasonable methods for a subject teacher gaining access to the computer work of students without the need for printouts etc., and without the need for teachers to have access to home folders. However, this seems to be being ignored in favour of pushing for the exact solution you want, not the result you want."

 

That was what i was trying to say - just not very well :?

[localzuk]

pallen - the point was that that isn't a solution to the request being made. The request is for, for example, full access to all work files that a pupil is working on for a project. This allows staff to monitor progress easily. Getting them to submit something every lesson would be a logistical nightmare. Allowing access to their home folder solves this.

[Diello]

ok, best answer so far has to go to marcblake

 

That'd be yours truly

 

pallen - the point was that that isn't a solution to the request being made. The request is for, for example, full access to all work files that a pupil is working on for a project. This allows staff to monitor progress easily. Getting them to submit something every lesson would be a logistical nightmare. Allowing access to their home folder solves this.

 

Yes - that is the request - however, as has been explained nurmurous times, by numerous people, whose profession it is to provide educational computer networks, the solution being pushed for has multiple problems with it. However, these problems aren't answered by the Teachers concerned, either they state those issues don't exist (we're professionals, we see these issues occurring on a daily basis!), or just pretend they were never mentioned.

 

School IT Staff readily admit that a solution IS needed, however, a balance needs to be struct between teacher needs, and the security & stability of the resources provided. From what I see, IT staff are trying to compromise, but the Teachers simply say, "but it MUST be this way".

 

Getting them to submit every lesson doesn't have to be a nightmare - it's done here by some subjects. Students are constantly taking work from their work area, to a memory stick, to home, to a memory stick, to school - I think they can manage to copy a folder from their home-folder to the drop off point - a minutes work at most. The nightmare that could be caused by "full access to all work files" for teachers would be far greater.

 

Or if it's really imperitive for a project that you have constant access to it - get the class to save all the files into a handing-in point and work from there - that way only one copy. Then if the teacher concerned loses a students work, or otherwise causes problems, the damage will be confined to only that subjects work (as opposed to possibly impacting other subjects work by having access to all files, for all subjects), and, to be frank, on that teacher's head.

[azrael78]

Without breaking into the thread too much - here, no-one has access to all student folders except IT Support staff.

 

Staff USED to have R/W access, but a few teacher accounts got compromised due to carelessness - students' work got wiped out/overwritten so the decision was made to give then just R/O.

 

Even with R/O - students still got into a teachers' account - copied off other students' work, badged it as their own etc...

 

In the end we took the decision (in conjunction with SMT) that no-one outside of IT Support Staff should have access to ANY student folders except the student themselves.

 

This gives them ultimate responsibility for their home folder - so if there is stuff in it that shouldn't be - it's discipline time.

 

A few teaching staff here have moaned about not having access to student home folders - so to compromise we gave them a 'drop box' where both students and staff can retrieve work for each other. We explained the risks and they agreed - it's been working well ever since.

 

Az

[localzuk]

Err... azrael78 - how did a student get access to a teacher account due to staff having read only access to their folder?? That doesn't make any sense.

[joe90bass]

Err... azrael78 - how did a student get access to a teacher account due to staff having read only access to their folder?? That doesn't make any sense.

 

If it's anything like here, staff leave PCs logged in when not in the room or staff let pupils use their accounts to go on a PC. Though this is getting better due to disciplinary procedures being introduced.

[Gatt]

just posted a not-so-nice reply there myself..

[localzuk]

Wow, there are some arrogant teachers on that site.

[webman]

Yes. Very arrogant. Now I remember why I don't go on there that often but have made an exception today.

[pallen]

If the pupils in my school are anything to go by, using a drop box would be far easier than allowing staff access to pupils areas. The amount of people who save files as document1, doc2 etc even after they have been told to give it a valid name is untrue. How much time would be wasted going throught the entire class of files with such vague names to find the work that they are doing for each subjet. Using a drop box method forces them to think a little more about what file name they are giving their work so the teacher can identify that they have submitted work. I personally would prefer that method and we have used it here successfully in the past. It allows a teacher to be logged on and see at a glance if any pupil has not done their work.

[joe90bass]

Teachers - you have to realise that you don't have any managerial roles. You are users plain and simple

 

That'll go down well!! True though.......................