[news] Groomed in lesson while on Ipad

[Garacesh]

But if the school had blocked Skype, nothing would have stopped her, or other teenagers, from accessing those sites with their own devices. Admittedly the school would not legally responsible, but there's still a failing of safeguarding, but now it's not within the school, who will pick up on it?

 

I find it an odd disconnect between the school teaching e-safety, and to be wary of social networking, but rather than allowing students to utilize social media in a safe, monitored environment, schools restrict access of anything to do with social media, and so students experiment at home, with no supervision or guidance, just some vague memories of a powerpoint presentation showed to them in a PSHCE lesson once.

Whilst I can see what you're saying, children come here to learn, not to use Facebook. They have no business using Facebook during a lesson (and for many of them it becomes a distraction from their work), thus it gets blocked. Same reason we block flash games and music sites, nothing more.

 

Edit: Whoops. Accidentally double-posted. Sorry

[X-13]

Been discussing this with my colleagues and one of them just raised a valid point.. Schemes like this are usually contributed to by the parents.. With that in mind, can the school lock down the devices if they parents have contributed towards the cost? The device isn't 100% theirs. Tricky situation. Probably one for writing a policy about before they start going round with the collection bucket.

 

Wouldn't there usually be something in the AUP stating that it remains property of the school and that it's rented? [Possibly not in the AUP, but something.]

 

 

Whilst I can see what you're saying, children come here to learn, not to use Facebook. They have no business using Facebook during a lesson (and for many of them it becomes a distraction from their work), thus it gets blocked. Same reason we block flash games and music sites, nothing more.

 

Edit: Whoops. Accidentally double-posted. Sorry

 

That awkward moment when I opened Impero while reading this thread and there's a class of kids playing games with permission from the teacher... Some in IE without adblock.

Edited January 19, 2015 by X-13

[Garacesh]

Wouldn't there usually be something in the AUP stating that it remains property of the school and that it's rented? [Possibly not in the AUP, but something.]

 

I'd assume so.

Probably one for writing a policy about before they start going round with the collection bucket.

 

But not too sure.

 

Something like "Though you have contributed to the cost of the device, the device will remain property of the school and as such we may apply management including (but not limited to) web filtering and app restriction. We may also request the device be returned to the school for reasons included (but not limited to) updates and general maintenance." I guess? It's possible that there was never a policy in the first place. Who knows?

 

Edit: We need IT Technician journalists who gather statements etc and ask the important questions when stories like this crop up.. Who's up for it?

[Dkeen94]

With that setup above the school WOULD have prevented this and the only reason I can think of logically why they wouldn't is because - Lazy or Inexperienced staff that didn't know these solutions existed.

 

I feel like it is very easy to blame the IT Staff for being "Lazy or Inexperienced" but whats to say that the "IT Staff" didnt explain this to management. We have all been there where we have wanted something implemented for the greater benefit of the school but in turn are over ruled by the SMT/SLT because the do not want to spend the money or didnt deem it appropriate for the school. There are far to many factors in this article that we are not aware of so it is hard to make judgements based of our own assumptions. I feel that there is blame to be accepted from all parties including the young girl, yes she is a victim i am not disputing this & yes in the eyes of the law it is illegal i am not disputing this. But what i find shocking is how you can say that a 16 year old girl is not aware of the consequences of her actions... Teenagers arent stupid at all, they know what they are doing.

[Gibson335]

Point of contention. WE don't usually make that decision.

 

I can tell people that xyz should NOT be allowed because of whatever reason and be instantly overruled, rightly or wrongly, by a non-technical member of SLT with no concept of the potential issues.

 

+1 for this. I pointed out to SLT that teachers allowing students to use their own Internet-enabled phones in the classroom meant that absolutly no filtering was being applied, and that by allowing it they were condoning it. I pretty much got told 'thanks, but we want to, so we're going to carry on'.

[simpsonj]

Whilst I can see what you're saying, children come here to learn, not to use Facebook. They have no business using Facebook during a lesson (and for many of them it becomes a distraction from their work), thus it gets blocked. Same reason we block flash games and music sites, nothing more.

 

Edit: Whoops. Accidentally double-posted. Sorry

 

But we don't just block facebook, we're blocking everything with social media connotations (Twitter, Skype, IM etc). And by blocking it, students can't investigate it with a teacher on hand to give guidance. By the same token, it offers schools that level of protection (it can't happen on our network...) but I'm not convinced this attitude is one that actually helps students and e-safety.

 

I do agree though, students could be massively distracted by Facebook, but then students have access to Facebook through their phones (or at least, they do here, we don't ban mobile phones). For some reason, staff allow students to listen to music in lessons too, so perhaps my school is a little different to most!

 

I don't have a solution, I'm just not sure an outright ban on social media in schools is the best solution, but maybe it's the only way schools can go.

[X-13]

Something like "Though you have contributed to the cost of the device, the device will remain property of the school and as such we may apply management including (but not limited to) web filtering and app restriction. We may also request the device be returned to the school for reasons included (but not limited to) updates and general maintenance." I guess? It's possible that there was never a policy in the first place. Who knows?

 

I'd love to say something along the lines of "any tech worth their salt would make sure all bases are covered"... but I know bad SLTs happen to good techs.

 

I'm pretty sure 1200 iPads just got dropped on I.T and there was no time/money to actually lock them down.

 

Edit: We need IT Technician journalists who gather statements etc and ask the important questions when stories like this crop up.. Who's up for it?

 

Do I get to say "I NEED PICTURES OF SPIDER-TECH!"?

 

[abillybob]

Doesn't Meraki have to be set up manually for each device? That's a lot of time to spend on this.

 

Nope the profile can be downloaded and loaded onto Apple configurator, thus doing 30 iPads at a time they could have deployed all these iPads to all pupils within 3-4 days if they worked solidly on them. That isn't a lot of work to me when deploying 1:1 anything.

 

Same with setting up a VPN server [which wouldn't have occurred to me].

I can setup a fully functioning VPN server for our network in an hour....? I'm guessing you haven't ever done this which is ok, although would you have been so silly not to ask the question on here from people who do know I'm sure you would of a simple thread stating "We have 5,000 iPads that need deploying this week in a 1:1 environment. Can someone please help me set them up properly to ensure we have no safety concerns etc" then I would have talked you through the process and I'm sure so would a lot of other people willing to help. Not asking for help when you don't understand something is incompetent and just plain silly in my books.

 

From the sounds of it, these were bought then given straight to pupils. Which, after 8 years in education, doesn't surprise me.

 

Yup this might be so also, didn't say it wasn't I'm just discussing the different variables on what might of happened. I'd of kicked up a huge fuss and wanted to talk to governors. I'd of done everything in my power to ensure the devices are being properly managed, wouldn't you especially on a scale as big as this schools?

 

Stop being an ass.

 

Everybody has an opinion but this is the reason people stay away from threads and why I did for a while because you can't have an adult discussion without someone calling names. I know we all work in a school but we're no longer on the playground.

 

"They were lazy", "they're incompetant".

 

They were overruled, ignored or simply not told.

 

And you know this as fact do you? I'm not saying it's not a possibility this happened either but just as much chance it could have been SLT fault or the heads it could have also been the IT bod's fault no one knows that though I would have done everything in my power to stop it as the network manager and would have kicked up a fuss with the governors and my Union to ensure the school knew all the risks they where taking and that I was in no way responsible, because I don't want to lose my job because X member of SLT says no. He's not god I am allowed a say as well and the only reason a school employs you is because you know more technically then them and if they still don't listen at least my bum is covered.

[Garacesh]

But we don't just block facebook, we're blocking everything with social media connotations (Twitter, Skype, IM etc). And by blocking it, students can't investigate it with a teacher on hand to give guidance. By the same token, it offers schools that level of protection (it can't happen on our network...) but I'm not convinced this attitude is one that actually helps students and e-safety.

 

I do agree though, students could be massively distracted by Facebook, but then students have access to Facebook through their phones (or at least, they do here, we don't ban mobile phones). For some reason, staff allow students to listen to music in lessons too, so perhaps my school is a little different to most!

 

I don't have a solution, I'm just not sure an outright ban on social media in schools is the best solution, but maybe it's the only way schools can go.

 

I agree, but honestly like you say, there isn't any proper solution. We can still deliver effective guidance on social networking (and the internet in general) without actually requiring them to go onto the social networking sites during school hours (let's face it, we teach our kids about the dangers of booze without getting them drunk, right?), but we can't allow them to explore social networking under our care, either. Partially to cover our own asses ("My daughter got perverted text messages on facebook. We don't allow facebook at home, so this is all your fault!") and partially aforementioned distractions. It's also a safeguarding issue to protect our students from other students.. Us as IT staff, alongside SMT, have access to facebook so that if a child is being bullied etc we can investigate it.

 

But to be fair, there have been people saying "Well if the school had blocked Skype this would never have been reported", and perhaps they're right. That doesn't make it any less of a safeguarding issue to have it unblocked, but it does raise the issue of "The more potential eyes on the scene, the more potential there is for spotting it.", but this also opens up further avenues for events like this to happen, and even whilst we've been at each others throats in this thread, I'm certain none of us wants things like this to occur.

Edited January 19, 2015 by Garacesh

[abillybob]

Please guys don't think I'm blaming this on just the school either. Look at my post on page 6 and it will make more sense if you've just entered this thread. I'm saying it was all of their faults, all of them including the victim I think could have done more.

[Ephelyon]

But if the school had blocked Skype, nothing would have stopped her, or other teenagers, from accessing those sites with their own devices. Admittedly the school would not legally responsible

 

Just as an aside, if it occurred during a lesson, on a student-owned device that was authorised for use within the lesson (but not for that activity) by the teacher, then my research indicates the school probably would be legally responsible, though a prosecution would be highly unlikely and hasn't happened so far. It's an intersection of:

 

* Law of Contract (Duty of Care);

* H&S Law (failure to risk assess);

* But mainly: Negligence Law (Neighbours directed to use resources without due regard for potential misuse, such misuse cannot readily be differentiated from legitimate use at a normal distance and the school would be deemed to be aware of this).

Edited January 19, 2015 by Ephelyon

[Dkeen94]

I agree with @Garacesh here. We can still deliver effective guidance on the use of social media and the likes without them actually visiting the site. Students do not need facebook in school, they attend to learn not to peruse social media while the teacher is attempting to teach them & yes i know they can do it on their phones but atleast we have blocked it our end so it covers us.

[simpsonj]

If nothing else its certainly been an interesting question to explore, so thank you for the reasoned debate @Garacesh

[caffrey]

This could probably happen in any school, teachers generally don't have a handle on technology and BYOD just brings more to the fold - profiles can be easily defeated and not so easy to install on personal devices and with all the new troubles that encrypted searches has brought to the table, things aren't really going to get much better. It's all down to education at the end of the day, IT staff just provide the tools and with lower budgets the tools aren't always the best.

[simpsonj]

Just as an aside, if it occurred during a lesson, on a student-owned device that was authorised for use within the lesson (but not for that activity) by the teacher, then my research indicates the school probably would be legally responsible, though a prosecution would be highly unlikely and hasn't happened so far. It's an intersection of:

 

* Law of Contract (Duty of Care);

* H&S Law (failure to risk assess);

* But mainly: Negligence Law (Neighbours directed to use resources without due regard for potential misuse, such misuse cannot readily be differentiated from legitimate use at a normal distance and the school would be deemed to be aware of this).

 

Sorry, I should have been clearer, and said that if the Skype had been blocked, and the student accessed Skype at home on their own device.

 

But yes, I remember that (extremely long) thread from a year or so back. I made a summary and showed SLT, I don't think it made much of a difference. Students are still able to use their own devices here, which as you say, would come under those three Laws.

[Grey-gear]

As most students will now have a device that they can access the internet on it could be worth focusing education of this topic on them whilst still providing education for the parents\guardians. Or just put all students in a bubble.

[simpsonj]

yes i know they can do it on their phones but atleast we have blocked it our end so it covers us.

 

Yes, I agree that the school is covered, but does that actually help the student?

 

If the school doesn't monitor student use of Social Media, and neither does the parent, then that leaves education alone, which has been stated before is questionable as to it's impact.

 

That being said, I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that schools should be policing/monitoring student's use of social media sites (and I doubt most schools would have the man hours to do so effectively).

 

Maybe you and @Garacesh are right, and it should just be blocked within schools and on any device that the school purchases. It's certainly the solution most schools go with (including my own) I'm just not certain that it's the best solution.

[Brimstone]

How can they?

I and others have mentioned a proxy server, which really should have been set up (or configured to block these things, if it already was) but you can't really manage a device that so frequently goes off-domain can you?

Not trying to argue. Legitimately asking. How would you do it?

 

 

Global Proxy.....end of problem

[X-13]

Global Proxy.....end of problem

 

Like what China has?

 

Let's not turn this into the Charlie Hebdo thread...

[Brimstone]

Like what China has?

 

Let's not turn this into the Charlie Hebdo thread...

 

 

No lets not be silly.

 

A Global Proxy configured and sat in your school that safeguards any device being used outside school, once installed is invisible to the end user and can not be deleted, points device back to you filtered system.

[X-13]

A Global Proxy configured and sat in your school that safeguards any device being used outside school, once installed is invisible to the end user and can not be deleted, points device back to you filtered system.

 

So the proxy on the user device points to a school owned server which then points to their filtered internet?

 

I'm legitimately curious. Any time I've heard "global proxy" it's been in reference to Big Brother type setup.

 

And the first google result is a VPN anonymising too to bypass blocked websites...

[localzuk]

I think in this form, global means "works anywhere globally"... If that iPad is taken to Japan, it'll still connect back to the school's proxy server for its connectivity.

[Dkeen94]

Yes, I agree that the school is covered, but does that actually help the student?

 

If the school doesn't monitor student use of Social Media, and neither does the parent, then that leaves education alone, which has been stated before is questionable as to it's impact.

 

That being said, I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea that schools should be policing/monitoring student's use of social media sites (and I doubt most schools would have the man hours to do so effectively).

 

Maybe you and @Garacesh are right, and it should just be blocked within schools and on any device that the school purchases. It's certainly the solution most schools go with (including my own) I'm just not certain that it's the best solution.

 

I understand your point that just by blocking it doesnt help the student because they do not get practical knowledge of what is happening but in the same vane there isnt any time to teach this, it should be a hands on approach from home and guided sessions if there is time. Plus have you ever tried to mention E-Safety or anything like that to 11-18 years olds? Their eyes just glaze over and they zone out!

 

We can only do our best with these platforms and try our best to filter/monitor and help if possible! Its such a Minefield for anyone in this field to deal with!

[Brimstone]

I think in this form, global means "works anywhere globally"... If that iPad is taken to Japan, it'll still connect back to the school's proxy server for its connectivity.

 

 

Exactly....

 

Global Proxy function has been available since iOS6.

[Garacesh]

Is there a way to lock proxy in, though? We use Apple Configurator to manage our iPads and the kids can easily head to settings, disconnect from the wireless, remove the proxy info, etc. Hardly foolproof, no?