Vote YES on Independence (of Cornwall)

[E_G_R2]

It may not be a language but it is something that defines Yorkshire (and other regions have their own ID) and any loss would be bad.

[E_G_R2]

We could become the UnUnited States of England

 

Well Prior to Alfred the Greats Son Edward the British Isls was a number of states including Cornwall, Wessex, Mercia, Kent, East Anglia. I beleive it wasn't until the Normans that Cornwall was actualy overridden by the English/Normans

[tmcd35]

Just found this, the 2052 post-devolution map of (what was) Great Britain...

 

[localzuk]

Yes but also no because it was central gov that persued the destruction of these laguages in the first place. Welsh was a very common language in the mid 1800's but died out through it not being taught in school and not recognised or used by local gov.. Some people have refered to this as 'language genocide' and has been used on many other languages as well. Welsh has revived through it being taught in schools, road signs etc..

 

This is also how a "United States of Europe" would end up too, if it happened. We have languages all over the place in the EU, but only 2 end up being used by the EU institutions, due to a) the number of speakers and b) where the institutions are. Those 2 are English and French. Germany is also specified as a working language of the EU but it is rarely used by them.

 

The issue is not one of governments wanting to get rid of languages, it is one of necessity for better global trade. Just like in the past, regional languages were a barrier to being a united country with easy trade within its borders.

[E_G_R2]

Just found this, the 2052 post-devolution map of (what was) Great Britain...

 

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Those Danes are at it agains.

[CAM]

Yes but also no because it was central gov that persued the destruction of these laguages in the first place. Welsh was a very common language in the mid 1800's but died out through it not being taught in school and not recognised or used by local gov.. Some people have refered to this as 'language genocide' and has been used on many other languages as well. Welsh has revived through it being taught in schools, road signs etc..

 

It's been gaining traction on the Internet too. I picked it up as a sort of academic curiosity, Internet resources are a bit spotty though with contradictions but communities are cropping up supporting the language (though mostly just about understandable form, most of mine is pre-school level guess work still...).

 

Chi gallu dysgu siarad Cymraeg yma: https://site.saysomethingin.com/communities/welsh-for-english-speakers/courses/course-1-cyen

[Garacesh]

By that argument then the Welsh language would have died out as well and it nearly did appart from the North and West without the aid that it recieved. How would a Yorkshire person feel if their dialect died?

I can't speak for a Yorkshireman but as Mancunian, I wouldn't care. I personally don't subscribe to this 'regional identity' lark, I just acknowledge others do. Instead I acknowledge that people from all parts are different individuals that have their own tastes and preferences. For example, being a Mancunian it's often assumed that I'm a fan of football, of which my friends will be able to tell you is so untrue it's absurd.

Language 'death' is a slow and steady process of integrating two societies together where one will usually take the language of the other, it doesn't just happen overnight, and by the time it's complete there's often not many around who were around when it started.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Garacesh

[E_G_R2]

This is also how a "United States of Europe" would end up too, if it happened. We have languages all over the place in the EU, but only 2 end up being used by the EU institutions, due to a) the number of speakers and b) where the institutions are. Those 2 are English and French. Germany is also specified as a working language of the EU but it is rarely used by them.

 

The issue is not one of governments wanting to get rid of languages, it is one of necessity for better global trade. Just like in the past, regional languages were a barrier to being a united country with easy trade within its borders.

 

thats one of the reasons but it has also occured because Linguistic genocide has frequently been used throughout history to systematically eradicate languages to assert the authority of a ruling power, sometimes it’s an attempt to assimilate an ethnic minority, and sometimes it’s to provide “linguistic unity.” In Wales Children were beaten for using it in school.

[sted]

We could become the UnUnited States of England

 

but surely devolving powers down so things are handled by local people at a local level isnt a bad thing to do and central govenment can just do the stuff regions cant so money and armed forces for example leave majority of taxation to la's something similar to how states work in the usa rather than expecting policies that make sense in london to work in say doncaster/leeds/barnsley

[Andrew_C]

The issue is not one of governments wanting to get rid of languages, it is one of necessity for better global trade.

Better start teaching Mandarin then!

[tmcd35]

Better start teaching Mandarin then!

 

It's interesting that most high schools teach German and French not Mandarin and Spanish. Union job protection vs Educational needs?

[GREED]

but surely devolving powers down so things are handled by local people at a local level isnt a bad thing to do and central govenment can just do the stuff regions cant so money and armed forces for example leave majority of taxation to la's something similar to how states work in the usa rather than expecting policies that make sense in london to work in say doncaster/leeds/barnsley

 

Doesn't this start getting into the sort of fantasy that Scotland thinks it is going to get, which is they can pick and choose the things they want to have and manage, but all the things like infrastructure, prisons, power, import/export, etc, would be maintained by England? It scares me when there is this constant wish to be totally independent without having a full idea of what being truly independent would entail (That is not a dig at you at all @sted it is the idea as a whole!)

[LeMarchand]

Better start teaching Mandarin then!

 

Wu du bu zhong fu.

[GrumbleDook]

It's interesting that most high schools teach German and French not Mandarin and Spanish. Union job protection vs Educational needs?

 

The educational need is the ability to learn a language. If you learn one that is actively needed now there is no guarantee it will be needed in the future, so the idea is to give the skills to learn and the ability to understand how language can be associated to culture.

 

In the same way coders can often use multiple languages, there is a healthy train that most people can be polyglots ... the first language learnt is often key to this and chat to any group of MFL specialists and you can spark a riot about which should be the first language learnt.

[featured_spectre]

Big problem for us native Cornish is we have in many cases been priced out of our County of birth. I just wonder how many true Cornish people there are left? This latest European gesture seems a hugely futile waste of money to me. It's a bit like the stupid regulations saying that Cornish pasties can't be called Cornish pasties unless they are made in Cornwall. Last I checked a so called cellophane big brand Cornish pasty it's list of ingredients contained all manner of additives. Add to that at least one founder / owner of a very well marketed Pasty company roots are the Indian Continent unless my eyes were deceiving me! Worst thing that happened to Cornwall was that road being carved down it's backbone.

 

This one chap made a pasty with natural ingredients from cornwall, but because his shop was just over the border in devon, he wasn't allowed to call them cornish, despite everything being sourced from cornwall...

[localzuk]

Better start teaching Mandarin then!

 

也许我会...

[sted]

Doesn't this start getting into the sort of fantasy that Scotland thinks it is going to get, which is they can pick and choose the things they want to have and manage, but all the things like infrastructure, prisons, power, import/export, etc, would be maintained by England? It scares me when there is this constant wish to be totally independent without having a full idea of what being truly independent would entail (That is not a dig at you at all @sted it is the idea as a whole!)

 

wasnt taken that way.

 

I agree there are issues but shouldnt local things be dealt with at a local level as said before the westminster one size fits all (well works for london) approach blatently dosent work and mps arnt really reprentative of their constituancy when they spend so much of their time somewhere like london that is a special case (if the rest of the country go the same amount of cash spent on public transport as london maybe you could get people out of cars for example)

[sted]

It's interesting that most high schools teach German and French not Mandarin and Spanish. Union job protection vs Educational needs?

 

i know this is from primary level but all the schools i know that do languages (or to my knowledge do) do spanish i cant remember ever being asked to look for french/german resources but quite often given spanish resources to install/find

[featured_spectre]

也许我会...

 

Whilst you used google translate for this, its adverb is wrong. It should be this - 也許我會 - hope that helps!

[localzuk]

Lol, I did indeed use Google for that. However, it was more for the point that I do actually think we should be teaching Mandarin and Simplified Chinese in schools. It makes more sense than teaching German!

[featured_spectre]

It's interesting that most high schools teach German and French not Mandarin and Spanish. Union job protection vs Educational needs?

 

My daughters school teach 4 languages. European languages are taught from age 6 upwards.

 

German (most common language in Europe), French (Secondary language in UN after English), Spanish (Most used language in the Americas), Mandarin (only for year 7 onwards)

[GrumbleDook]

Its pretty interesting to me just how different Manx Gaelic and Cornish are from each other. They're both Celtic languages, but the overlap is so little that the 2 languages are completely different.

 

I like Celtic languages, and do think they should be taught. However, they don't help in the modern "globalised" world.

 

They are from different branches.

Welsh, Cornish and Breton are Brythonic

Scottish Gaelic (usually pronounced as if saying 'gallik'), Irish and Manx are Goidelic

When you get to Irish you then get the official language, and then the dialects ... and getting someone from The Pale and from the Aran Islands to talk to each other leaves them arguing (usually over a pint or two) about the best way to say good afternoon! Then again, you can get the same between North and South Wales.

[localzuk]

They are from different branches.

Welsh, Cornish and Breton are Brythonic

Scottish Gaelic (usually pronounced as if saying 'gallik'), Irish and Manx are Goidelic

When you get to Irish you then get the official language, and then the dialects ... and getting someone from The Pale and from the Aran Islands to talk to each other leaves them arguing (usually over a pint or two) about the best way to say good afternoon! Then again, you can get the same between North and South Wales.

 

Something I find fascinating too is how there are multiple dialects of Manx also! On such a tiny island, multiple dialects managed to evolve!

[GREED]

wasnt taken that way.

 

I agree there are issues but shouldnt local things be dealt with at a local level as said before the westminster one size fits all (well works for london) approach blatently dosent work and mps arnt really reprentative of their constituancy when they spend so much of their time somewhere like london that is a special case (if the rest of the country go the same amount of cash spent on public transport as london maybe you could get people out of cars for example)

 

Perhaps though it is the system by which MPs are elected and represent at national level that is the issue. If your local MP is not representing your area, then he needs the boot!

 

Imagine for a moment we gave all money to local government. One decides that roads are terrible so builds a whacking great motorway to the authority boarder. You neighbouring authority has done no such thing, so the road ends up going nowhere...

 

It is a very extreme and silly case, but when you get down to that level of micro management of a country then there is no country.

[featured_spectre]

Something I find fascinating too is how there are multiple dialects of Manx also! On such a tiny island, multiple dialects managed to evolve!

 

The reason is that many clans/tribes didn't migrate much, if at all, especially on a small island if they were all at peace. They would have had a common language for trading and such like however. Same applied to Isle of Wight when they were invaded, they had something close to 5 or 6 written dialects.