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[localzuk]

One thing I always try to remember is that it isn't really possible for a new government to make many changes in its first term - 4 - 5 years is a tiny amount of time, and most schemes take over double that to implement. The true proof of the pudding is the second term.

 

And from this government it has been evident that they have not tried to fix the mistakes of the old govt's but have instead made them worse in many areas.

 

A new government is the only answer to the problem.

[mattx]

Did you learn to read? Evidently you didnt.

 

Well I tried, found out I was Dyslexic. Still have problems everyday - in fact I seem to remember having a similar PM about it with GrumbleDook a while back as he is too.

Good thing we can laugh about it ko ?

[localzuk]

His point was that Labour have had their chance - and they messed it up. Ok, the others in the past may have been worse, but they still did a bad job. Or at least thats what I gather from it.

[mattx]

just because your quite obviously too dense...

 

If you want to get into a debate then chucking one liners such as that back proves you are obviously not up to the challenge.

I offered you a breakdown of my arguments in a constructive manner - its up to you to break those down and offer a proper debate back.

 

If however you want to take the pi55 out of my dyslexia then I ask you to keep that off the open forum as it may offend others who also suffer.

[mattx]

I miss Screaming Lord Sutch

 

I was lucky to meet him during a by-election for Uxbridge. All round nice guy who was VERY intelligent too - would have made a great MP !!

[paulhyman]

I have read alot about the Thatcher years but i was too young or not born at the time.

Thatcher is like marmite "Love it or hate it?" ? some of what she did was good some was bad.

 

This government has no balls against Europe or the USA. The UK was due to have money back from Europe what the UK invested in Europe, this was due to Thatcher. Suddenly Europe and so called poorer counties say we should not have it back.

 

does anyone know if the UK got that back or did they leave it in the pot for others to use and abuse.

[Guest Guest]

Assumptions are the mother of all feck ups. Im dyslexic too, so is my brother. It doesnt stop me from responding to what someone has actually wrote, and from ignoring the bits that go against my arguement.

 

 

Ill re-write my response then. I dont read newspapers, or particulaly watch the news for the reason that 99% of it is misleading or downright lies. All the info i based my statement on were through personal experiance, for example;

 

Being told by the dole im not a single mum or an immigrant so to feck off and stop moaning that ill die if i dont have any money to feed myself.

 

Or how about my friend whos a single mum and lives in one of the poshest areas in the northeast, payed for by *our* taxes.

 

That enough justification for my statement "all ive seen is Labour turn this country into a place for the scum, immigrants, and wendy wide legs to thrive."?

[enjay]

Again, another Tory fuel tax plan introduced by Kenneth Clarke back in 1994 I think which labour still go by.

It may have been a Tory policy in 1994, but this is 2007. If the Labour party have still kept it all this time, I think it fair to call it a Labour policy now.

 

Stances like "that was a decision made by the previous administration" are fine for a few years, heck, some policies take a little while to implement or reap benefit, but you can't hide behind that for ever.

[mattx]

I think it fair to call it a Labour policy now.

 

I agree 100% - just a shame the current lot don't introduce a better system.

 

Stances like "that was a decision made by the previous administration" are fine for a few years

 

Indeed - but the points I am making is that some people don't realise just what policies previous governments introduced.

A classic example is the council tax - introduced by a tory government and now abused by tory and labour councils up and down the land.

 

It doesnt stop me from responding to what someone has actually wrote

 

But does it give you the right to seek the weakness in that person and exploit it for personal gain ? Thats the sort of thing MPs do - maybe you should become one.

Like I said, you can take the pi55 out of me all your like because of my dyslexia, but for the sake of others keep it off the forum as others may not hold the similar stance I do on the matter.

 

And to get back to your:

 

"all ive seen is Labour turn this country into a place for the scum, immigrants, and wendy wide legs to thrive."?

 

statement - if you feel that strongly about it - and becuse of the nature and tone of your statement you obviously do - why are you still in this country ?

[Guest Guest]

Are you honestly for real, or are you seriously that detached from reality that you can see things which arnt written?

 

Where exactly did i "seek the weakness in that person and exploit it for personal gain"?

 

In your world do people hook themselves into the net and somehow know someone is dyslexic before they even post?

 

Come on, grow up eh.

 

 

Oh and i will be leaving this country at some point thanks. Unless things improve that is. But in the mean time i think i have the right to have an opinion on what is right and wrong, or in your world do people not have that right?

[GrumbleDook]

Did you learn to read? Evidently you didnt.

 

Well I tried, found out I was Dyslexic. Still have problems everyday - in fact I seem to remember having a similar PM about it with GrumbleDook a while back as he is too.

Good thing we can laugh about it ko ?

Slypdexia Stirkes!!!!

 

Without coming down to heavily on anyone ... no pedantry or grammar/spelling flames please.

 

This is a political discussion ... that should be reason enough for flames!

[Dos_Box]

but by the end of the 80's the UK was in a hell of a better position that it was then.

 

Try telling that to a miner or someone who has just lost their house because of the boom and bust economics policies.

 

all ive seen is Labour turn this country into a place for the scum, immigrants, and wendy wide legs to thrive.

 

Errr no, thats all you have either read or seen on TV. If you look at actual stats - the amount of people leaving the country and people enterering the country [ legally ] is about the same.

The problem is the illegal entry into this country - which is a problem faced by most large rich countries.

 

interest rates/banks/etc are unstable.

 

Well are you going to blame the current party for that ? The first job Brown did was to hand control over BACK to the bank of England as the Tories made such a fcuk up over the economy.

 

Public transport is on its knees in most parts of the country.

 

Because Thatcher sold it all and privatised it !!!! Yet another Tory policy.

If Labour had any balls they would get it back.

 

What industry we do have left is still in decline,

 

Again because Thatcher sold the family silver !!! I don't suppose you even remember the trade deficit that happened because of yet another Tory policy ???

 

Evil motorists are bum-raped at every turn.

 

Again, another Tory fuel tax plan introduced by Kenneth Clarke back in 1994 I think which labour still go by.

 

You have to keep in mind that when Maggie came to power the UK was broke, bankrupt and effectively crippled. The actions taken by the Conservatives at the time were similar to those used by a surgeon trying to

save someone with a cancerous limb. Do you remove the limb and guarentee the patients survival, or try and operate on just the affected area taking the risk that it may not get all of the cancer? I grew up close to the British Leyland plant at, well, Leyland, that too went to the wall once privetised, but when they were dismanleing the place they discovered hidden 'sleeping' rooms where a large portion of the shifts workers would get a sleep because they had second jobs to go to. Many industries simply could not survive. Both France and Germany are now facing such challenges. Many of my freinds lost their jobs due to privetisation, but none ever argued that their respective companies had a chance. Most in fact tell me that they were a joke and had it coming anyway due to poor working practices and militant unionism.

I tend to lean to the right because I belive that people should try to stand on their own 2 feet where possible. I find an all enveloping state a chilling prospect. I've spent many years working in failed eastern Euopean staes to know that socialism doesn't really work, just as total capitalism does not.

[mattx]

that you can see things which arnt written?

 

Well you obviosuly didn't as you would not have posted the picture of the English book !!

 

Come on, grow up eh.

 

Says the person who openly thinks its ok to take the pi55 out of someone's dyslexia by posting images on how to read.

[GrumbleDook]

I miss Screaming Lord Sutch

 

I was lucky to meet him during a by-election for Uxbridge. All round nice guy who was VERY intelligent too - would have made a great MP !!

 

Definitely ... he almost had me and a friend that we should stand as soon as we could vote, but that would have put us up against Frank Field ... and since he actually campaigned on a number of the Loony policies we wanted to we thought it would be better to save the deposit and just go the pub instead.

[mattx]

we thought it would be better to save the deposit and just go the pub instead.

 

Now thats my sort of politics !!

[TechMonkey]

@mattx: Sorry, don't normally step in to these things but I think you are possibly seeing the worse. He didn't mention your dyslexia or any other impediment. As far as I can see he was alluding to you missing out some parts of his post that he felt explained your points. Admittedly he did it in a very over enthusiastic way that may have seemed a bit brash but I can't see any direct insult towards dyslexia. I have to say it just makes you seem very touchy about it.

 

Back on thread: always annoyed me when they were trying to do away with the House of lords, why when it is a stop gap for stupid laws getting though. Ok it may not be the fairest way of them being made lords but it does mean they don't have any real affiliation with the parties or any worries about following the latest fad. Makes it a lot easier to throw out rubbish laws for being rubbish. Strangely enough since all the changes have been made suddenly the House of Lords is rather more full of people in gratitude to Labour, & many more silly laws have gotten through.... But I'm just paranoid and cynical!

[GrumbleDook]

Ok ... now I will come down heavily. Any further comments for or against spelling and the use of prods about dyslexia will be removed.

 

This conversation goes back to politics or it gets locked.

[paulhyman]

didn't Maggie crush the unions as they seemed to be holding the county to ransom.

don't know, someone tell me as i was too young or not born.

 

i bet she could sort out the bloody post problems.

[Guest Guest]

...

[GrumbleDook]

The unions are another love them or hate them thing in my experience.

 

The do a valuable job ensuring that employers do not break the rules or take advantage, but they are over the top sometimes and rely on the threat of a strike to force the hand of the employer.

 

I don't have any problems with strikes as long as we have notice and can make alternative plans ... and often these alternatives mean that you look at different methods of doing things for the future ...

 

The wildcat strikes hurt the workers, the clients (usually the general public) and the employer ...

 

I know the PO and Royal Mail sucks, and that working conditions are rubbish ... and that the rules are being changed / goal posts moved ... but if these wild cat strikes mean that business companies (the main revune earner for the Royal Mail) are using alternatives then the workers are more likely to loose their jobs and the whole thing go down the pan.

[paulhyman]

GrumbleDook

 

I know what you mean.

just a little joke about it, i have spoken to some postman recently and it does not sound good.

[beeswax]

You have to keep in mind that when Maggie came to power the UK was broke, bankrupt and effectively crippled.

 

You also have to keep in mind that north sea oil was coming on stream, and that by the mid '80's the revenue from this was so huge that it was enough to pay the unemployment benefit for millions of people for many years without sacrificing the promise of tax cuts for the rich. The 1983 election was all about gaining control of this revenue. Can someone explain to me what the point of keeping construction workers, electricians, plumbers and the like out of work was, when it was obvious that the county's infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, railways and public transport) needed rebuilding, and that this was the best opportunity of doing it since Victorian times? What have we got now? BSF and P4S, because Labour are in thrall to this low tax agenda set in train in the '80's.

The Tories behaved like an elected junta, and allowed whole swathes of the country to go to the wall.

[localzuk]

I know the PO and Royal Mail sucks, and that working conditions are rubbish ... and that the rules are being changed / goal posts moved ... but if these wild cat strikes mean that business companies (the main revune earner for the Royal Mail) are using alternatives then the workers are more likely to loose their jobs and the whole thing go down the pan.

 

The thing with that is, the way things are going, Royal Mail will have lost (and will lose) so much money from this that the changes are even more necessary than before. It will mean that more staff will have to be made redundant.

 

I'm afraid that in this case, the workers and their unions are going to have to make some serious concessions else they are going to have a rather large number of unemployed members around...

[broc]

The underlying problem with Royal Mail is that they have lost the lucrative parts of their business to competition who have cherry-picked, leaving them with the 'low value' stuff that nobody else wants along with the high cost of doorstep delivery. In the past their monopoly enabled them to subsidise their doorstep delivery service from the more profitable parts of the business, now they cannot. For those of us old enough to remember, we used to have two deliveries a day, with the first usually arriving before we went to work....

 

Couple this with a dose of employee bad practice, bad management, low morale and you can see where it has led to.

 

Talking of low morale, Unison seems to be heading for a potential confrontation with the employers over the 2007 pay settlement. Members are due to be balloted to see if they are prepared to support a strike in support of the pay claim. The employers have offered 2.475% (Suspected of having set a budget of 2.5%), the Union is asking for 5%, arguing anything less is a pay cut.

 

Given that our right-wing socialist Government is determined to cap our pay rises at 2%, I wonder what an even more right-wing conservative Government would have set the cap at?

[SpuffMonkey]

You have to keep in mind that when Maggie came to power the UK was broke, bankrupt and effectively crippled.

 

You also have to keep in mind that north sea oil was coming on stream, and that by the mid '80's the revenue from this was so huge that it was enough to pay the unemployment benefit for millions of people for many years without sacrificing the promise of tax cuts for the rich. The 1983 election was all about gaining control of this revenue. Can someone explain to me what the point of keeping construction workers, electricians, plumbers and the like out of work was, when it was obvious that the county's infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, railways and public transport) needed rebuilding, and that this was the best opportunity of doing it since Victorian times? What have we got now? BSF and P4S, because Labour are in thrall to this low tax agenda set in train in the '80's.

The Tories behaved like an elected junta, and allowed whole swathes of the country to go to the wall.

 

Yep - its extremely disheartening to see what happened to our oil revenue (p*ssed away on dole money instead of used to invest) in comparison to somewhere like Norway (all oil revenues invested in a nation wide pension scheme that will keep them all happy in years to come.

 

Thatcher did a good job of breaking up organised labour - whether you think that is a good thing depends on whether you think you can cut yourself a better deal with your employer on your own than you can as part of an organised body. Given the amount of effort that companies put in to making sure that people opt to reject union representation, I think we can safely guess what the answer is.

 

Most of us here, are the beneficiaries of holiday and pension entitlements that are relatively generous - having come from commercial - I can say that stress and work balance wise - this job is fairly OK in comparison. If I get an out of hours call, then I may or may not respond - in industry it wasn't optional in any sense. Colleagues were often forced to cancel arranged holidays, dragged in for over night and even entire weekend stints, on site client support started at 8:30 in the morning and continued until they were finished with you, wherever in the country you happened to be.

 

Things that we nowadays take for granted, such as holidays, pensions, paid sick pay etc are not "rights", they were hard fought for by organised labour, and you can see the attrition rate at which they are now being lost, now that unions are not so powerful. Great news if you own or run a big firm, not so great if, like most of us, we are going to spend our lives working within one.

 

The perception touted about that Local Govt staff are cushioned from real life by a decent pension scheme which should be stopped (even though it is entirely self funded - unlike teachers (oh they aren't keen on unions are they - ho ho) - is extremely misleading - all citizens on the 4th richest country in the world should be able to look forward to a comfortable retirement - and that increasingly is not the case.

 

Just a thought...