X-13 Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 This is why I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a AAA studio to make a leap of faith sometime in the next 6 months... If they didn't do it for Nintendo, they won't do it for Valve.
LosOjos Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 If they didn't do it for Nintendo, they won't do it for Valve. Not necessarily - Nintendo are notoriously difficult to please, Valve seem to be happy for publishers to do their own thing; there's no reason to believe your statement is true IMO...
tmcd35 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Posted January 17, 2014 Not necessarily - Nintendo are notoriously difficult to please, Valve seem to be happy for publishers to do their own thing; there's no reason to believe your statement is true IMO... I took @X-13's statement to be less an inditment of Nintendo and more a statement on the Wii-U's user base. In that case, I can't see many AAA's being to over whelmed by SteamOS at this point either unfortunately. If the Wii-U had a solid enough user base I can't see meny AAA's not finding a way to work with them, not as if the Wii was lacking for software (features, graphics, dlc - yes - but the games where there while it lasted).
sonofsanta Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Have you tried Ni Nu Kuni? Highly recommend it as it basically is Pokémon with a better battle system! And only £6.59 from the PSN store right now: https://store.sonyentertainmentnetwork.com/#!/en-gb/cid=EP0700-NPEB01158_00-NNKDLFULLGAMEPTA
LosOjos Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I took @X-13's statement to be less an inditment of Nintendo and more a statement on the Wii-U's user base. In that case, I can't see many AAA's being to over whelmed by SteamOS at this point either unfortunately. If the Wii-U had a solid enough user base I can't see meny AAA's not finding a way to work with them, not as if the Wii was lacking for software (features, graphics, dlc - yes - but the games where there while it lasted). True, but the Wii and the Wii U were very different consoles. The Wii was a stroke of genius from Nintendo, drawing people in with it's simplicity and (at the time) innovative control system. The Wii U felt to me at least as an attempt to push the Wii at the more hard core gamers, which failed massively because it simply doesn't have the games to do that and it was released at a time when those very gamers were waiting for next gen consoles to be released. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not expecting SteamOS to take off (much as I'd love it to) but what I'm saying is that you have to look at it differently to a console launch. If SteamOS takes off, then it'll be a huge step towards the open hardware platform I'm talking of. Steam has an enormous user base already, but there just aren't enough games for Linux yet and the biggest titles available are either Valve's own (which are all getting on a bit now) or indie titles which, great as some of them are, aren't going to convince your hardened console gamers to make the leap. If just one AAA publisher takes a leap of faith though, it could seriously change the future of gaming, and all on a device (a PC!) that is already capable of delivering the entire home entertainment package that Microsoft and Sony are so desperate to make their consoles.
featured_spectre Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I have played ni nu kuni. I liked it. But am a pokemon man at heart.
tmcd35 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Posted January 17, 2014 Steam has an enormous user base already I beg to differ, regardless to how Gabe wants to spin it. Windows has an enormous user base already, a very large number of whom happen to use Steam amongst other content providers. Ignoring SteamOS which isn't really out yet so can't really have an installed user base, what is the current numbers for unique Steam installation on Linux systems? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Steam succeed. I've just no faith in Valve's business model for the project.
LosOjos Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 I beg to differ, regardless to how Gabe wants to spin it. Windows has an enormous user base already, a very large number of whom happen to use Steam amongst other content providers. Ignoring SteamOS which isn't really out yet so can't really have an installed user base, what is the current numbers for unique Steam installation on Linux systems? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Steam succeed. I've just no faith in Valve's business model for the project. I think we're actually agreeing with each other in a roundabout way I can't get actual figures at work, but there is a stats page on Steam that will show how many current Linux users there are with Steam installed (not sure how accurate it is, but probably the most accurate we'll get). My point was though that Steam has a huge user base (not SteamOS or Steam for Linux, just Steam in general). The problem is, like you said, Linux/SteamOS. It's just too lacking in terms of games right now, that's why I'm saying it needs at least one big name to make the leap and start releasing all their titles on Linux as well as Windows. Again, I agree with you, I don't think Valve are doing enough to make this a success and they're actually being quite hypocritical (SteamOS is meant to be two fingers up to closed platforms but is in itself an almost closed platform...) but then again, somebody needs to take the first step and I don't think anyone is in a better position than Valve to do so... EDIT: should have said, SteamOS in it's current form appears to be quite closed, whether or not they'll open it up on release for other distributors is anyone's guess, though I suspect not...
CAM Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Nintendo are considering the mobile market as part of a recognised need to change. Their current business model just doesn't work. Nintendo unsure about console business, considering mobile development - VideoGamer.com
Dos_Box Posted January 17, 2014 Posted January 17, 2014 Nintendo aren't in the same kind of trouble Sega got into...yet. They still have the cash-cow which is the 3DS and plenty of good IP and cash reserves. However they do run the risk of becoming alienated in the console market if their next device fails to gain interest from gamers. Mix this in with the long life of new generation consoles (no more 4 years between new console launches) and the run the risk of having their potential customer base simply drift over to the opposition. In Japan this isn't too big a problem as traditionally only Nintendo and Sony (and formerly Sega) were the major market players there, but globally it is of great concern to them. Another point to consider is that Nintendo have not traditionally played themselves to the adult gaming market and many of their former market now want something 'for all the family'. Mix this with the major outlay and investment that a new system has and many will be a one console household. Add to this the modern consumer demands from a games console (social media integration, DLNA etc.) and they have dropped the ball big time with the Wii U. Their next console will be make or break for them TBH. There's no point in still having lots of money of no one is buying your products and no developer is going to make games for a console with a minimal user base.
LosOjos Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 The news of their loss in operating profit has already had quite a hit on their share price: BBC News - Nintendo shares plunge 18% on loss warning 18% drop over the weekend! Business analysts seem to agree with the general consensus here - they need to start licensing their IP to be played on other devices. Now, where do we go to start the Smash Bros Steam campaign?
tmcd35 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 Business analysts seem to agree with the general consensus here - they need to start licensing their IP to be played on other devices. Is interesting, but as I said above, I don't really agree. They have the cash reserves for another roll of the console dice and to make a couple of stratigic buy-outs. What they really need is a more diverse range of new exclusive IP on a relavent gaming platform (not the Wii-U then). As I said above, letting Microsoft get hold of RARE was by far their biggest mistake (Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie, Donkey Kong, etc).
LosOjos Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Is interesting, but as I said above, I don't really agree. They have the cash reserves for another roll of the console dice and to make a couple of stratigic buy-outs. What they really need is a more diverse range of new exclusive IP on a relavent gaming platform (not the Wii-U then). As I said above, letting Microsoft get hold of RARE was by far their biggest mistake (Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie, Donkey Kong, etc). I don't think it's the same as Rare though - that was painful for thm because they lost a lot of big exclusives. What they could do though is actually make some of their back catalogue available on other platforms. Yes, it means giving a cut to MS/Sony/Valve/Google/Apple/etc. but it also opens up a huge market for them to make some serious cash. Cash reserves or not, if their stock holders feel that Nintendo aren't doing enough to increase their profits then they could get the rug pulled from under them pretty quickly...
tmcd35 Posted January 20, 2014 Author Posted January 20, 2014 I don't think it's the same as Rare though - that was painful for thm because they lost a lot of big exclusives. That's the point though IMHO. If they make their existing IP, classic games, available on mobile platforms then they seriously devalue their hardware brand. Why buy Nintendo if you can play Mario on the iPhone? Some clever purchases could give them a broader range of exclusive IP that attracts punters to the Nintendo hardware. For me part of the problem with the Wii-U is "another Mario", "another Zeda", etc.
featured_spectre Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 FYI, compared to the 2007 peak, nintendo shares are down 83% overall.
LosOjos Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 That's the point though IMHO. If they make their existing IP, classic games, available on mobile platforms then they seriously devalue their hardware brand. Why buy Nintendo if you can play Mario on the iPhone? Some clever purchases could give them a broader range of exclusive IP that attracts punters to the Nintendo hardware. For me part of the problem with the Wii-U is "another Mario", "another Zeda", etc. Read your post back and you describe the problem yourself - another Mario, another Zelda... they're no longer enough to sell consoles on the back of. There are so many great games now on so many platforms that only your die-hard Nintendo fans will bother with their consoles to play those games. It's not enough! Selling the older titles on mobile/alternative platforms would bring them a lot of revenue I reckon, there are tons of people who'd love to play through some of those games again but aren't going to buy a WiiU or a 3DS for the privilege. That's not to say they couldn't continue to have exclusives, I'm not saying that from now on all their games must be released on all platforms, just that (as you said last week) they'd do well to monetize their back catalogue more effectively and to a wider market. Of course, this all just opinion and speculation...
sonofsanta Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 At the point Rare were let go, they had been declining for a little while - and what have they made since that was particularly memorable? Kinect Sports? Viva Pinata? The sentiment of "Nintendo can't do it all themselves" is probably right though. They need some new IP to get people excited. Each new Mario game is an incredible achievement of design and gameplay, but I think general opinion tends to be "oh it's just another Mario game, I've played them before, I'm not missing out if I skip this one" no matter how different each one might be. Get some new studios bought, or carved off from EAD and left to their own devices, and let them come up with all the mad ideas they can. Nintendo need their own indie studios, I think, throw ideas out fast and see what sticks. I know I'm exhausted by just seeing Mario & Zelda over and over again, and I say that as someone who adores those games.
featured_spectre Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Re-release the N64 as a handheld device, with the ability to accept the N64 cartridges, and gameboy, GBA, etc cartridges also (maybe an adapter?) That would be a winner, because of the fact golden eye, star fox etc, were epic on there!
X-13 Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Each new Mario game is an incredible achievement of design and gameplay Which they still design like it's in 2D, being played with a controller that only has 2 buttons. Re-release the N64 as a handheld device Already done. I want one... Edited January 20, 2014 by X-13
featured_spectre Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 I know its been done, but they should mass market it and release it themselves.
LosOjos Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 The problem with releasing a new console (in hindsight, I know I was calling for a new handheld only last week!) is that it takes significant R&D costs to develop not to mention logistics. Releasing their games on alternative digital platforms would cost relatively little in comparison and would generate a hell of a lot more profit per sale. It's also much lower risk; if you already own the console/platform the game is released on then you're more likely to buy the game than if it requires you purchasing yet another console.
CAM Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Wii-U Premium Bundle has dropped to £180 at Argos.
X-13 Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 Wii-U Premium Bundle has dropped to £180 at Argos. That's how much I paid for my 3DS... These prices are going weird.
featured_spectre Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 FYI, compared to the 2007 peak, nintendo shares are down 83% overall. Quote for effect Link: http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/nintendo-s-share-price-tumbles-down-83-compared-to-2007-peak/0126937
CAM Posted January 21, 2014 Posted January 21, 2014 That's how much I paid for my 3DS... These prices are going weird. Does seem risky, they haven't exactly got enough in sales figures to make a profit on software sales without their killer title in the fore yet. I'm even considering switching to PC for Watch Dogs, depends what Ubisoft do with UPlay on there.
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