damienharrison Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 Hi I am currently in the process of applying for a new job. On the job description it mentions that they run an RM network. My questions are... How does this differ from a normal Windows 2003 network? What are the RM Networks like to manage/configure? Has anyone got any further information on RM Networks (have looked at the RM site and read up what i can there)? Whats RM CC3? Kind regards Damien Harrison
webman Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 CC3 is essentially a bunch of RM tools installed on the servers and with a few AD modifications. RM CC3 will make your life easier in terms of day to day tasks when managing the network. On the technical side you will get: Software and printer allocation via location Printer quotas Customisable, secure GPOs Remote machine rebuild/imaging/reboot/shutdown Bulk user import wizard Start Menu shortcuts management Web-based management for all of the above Remote access to work areas No messing about with mandatory profiles and machine images Probably loads of other advantages too that I've forgotten. We've had our CC3 network since 2002 and it's still going great, we've never been restricted by RM for anything we've wanted to do and things just work... There are mixed feelings on CC3 on this forum though. This is owing to people's bad experiences with RM from many years ago or because they don't think people running RM networks are "real network managers" because you don't have to write a two-hundred line VBScript to map printers.
CyberNerd Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 people running RM networks are "real network managers" because you don't have to write a two-hundred line VBScript to map printers. I thought it was more a feeling of a high cost for a comparitively little benefit - the scripts are free.
webman Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 We don't see it as 'little benefit'. Everything we get from RM (as a whole package) makes our lives easier and gives us more time to concentrate on other things and developing new ideas. Time is money etc As a team of 2 and an apprentice working in a constantly evolving school, we're glad we've got the network we have and not spending time messing around doing things we'd have to on a vanilla network to achieve a similar goal. The beauty of CC3 is that we can go into the AD and make scripts if we need to.
damienharrison Posted September 26, 2007 Author Posted September 26, 2007 Cheers for that webman very informative will give me something to talk about if I get an Interview. Damien p.s Job ive applied for is uptowards your neck of the woods in Stockton.
nicholab Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 Where do you see the network going RM CC4 or MS 2003 vanilla are good questions. Just be keen try and read the network manage and weather they are for diving into GPO's. The main differenced in management is that most configuration change are doen through the RM management console a web base utility that is quite slow. Also you have to be careful with changing GPO's as it can upset RM. What position are you applying for?
damienharrison Posted September 26, 2007 Author Posted September 26, 2007 Hi Nicholab Am applying for the IT and Communications Manager job at Our Lady and St Bede RC Secondary School. Damien
Guest aliv25 Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 I was going to start a new discussion to do with RM but ill post it on here instead. can anyone help me solve the following problem? a member of staff can log on to her email account but when she tries to view a message it doesnt appear. also the writing changes to 'has been read'. there are no problems with other members of staff.
webman Posted September 26, 2007 Posted September 26, 2007 aliv25: I think that does deserve a new thread... which email client are they using and how is your email server set up?
nicholab Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 hi damienharrison: If it is the top dog position you will be leading the network development. You should be capable of managing the RM system but if you are used to vanilla you may find it restrictive. Push forwards your generic windows and PC fixing skill and also the ability to move away form an RM support contract. You have to get RM into migrate server and have the network down for 2 days if it is the forest root. In your tour of the site/system you get an idea of how you want to move the network forwards.
russdev Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 @Nicholab Interesting I have yet to find anything I can't do on my RM network maybe it is not the rm network being restrictive Russ
Quackers Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Hi I am currently in the process of applying for a new job. On the job description it mentions that they run an RM network. Run away.... its made by the devil himself.....
tech_guy Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Hi I am currently in the process of applying for a new job. On the job description it mentions that they run an RM network. Run away.... its made by the devil himself..... ROFL
EduTech Posted September 27, 2007 Posted September 27, 2007 Hi I am currently in the process of applying for a new job. On the job description it mentions that they run an RM network. Run away.... its made by the devil himself..... Aha ROFL you always put a smile on my face, i love this site
damienharrison Posted September 27, 2007 Author Posted September 27, 2007 Thank you everyone, i like this forum is friendly and very informative. Reminds me of antionline in that aspect (cant access from school for some reason it is blocked (cant think why) Cheers Damien
nicholab Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 @ russdev You cannot migrate services in a CC3 network on a to new server your self!!
russdev Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 @Nicholab Last time I checked you can maybe not good idea but if saying want to move one service installed on one cc3 server to another new server yes you can. you just need to know how. If you are on about removing cc3 then can do that yourself if wish. Russell
webman Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Why anyone would want to remove CC3 is beyond me (unless moving to CC4 ) ... unless it's suffered from years of neglect or abuse
Grommit Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Why anyone would want to remove CC3 is beyond me (unless moving to CC4 ) ... unless it's suffered from years of neglect or abuse ... Beacuse it's restrictive and skill set killing..... Imagine for you next job interview in the real world....
GrumbleDook Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 @Grommit ... no more restrictive than going into a large corporation that already has a set and rigid domain, tree and forest structure with set tools deployed out as MMCs with delegated authority. You should see the hassle you have at Ford trying to implement a change that falls outside of the set scope you have access too ... it makes CC3 look positively relaxed. Horses for courses.
webman Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Skill set killing? Hmmm.... Not really. Still use my Windows knowledge and work around/under RM, Linux knowledge for over 50% of our servers that tie in with the AD domain, knowledge of email and web systems and loads of web development experience. And those are just technical..... It is only skill set killing or restrictive if you let it.
russdev Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Agree with Webman there but then there you go as always it's a choice. What is right for me maybe not right for you but that works other way around as well. Russell
PiqueABoo Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 I have yet to find anything I can't do on my RM network I know a couple of what I thought were obvious things you can't do on an CC3 network, but they're part of my Vanilla B*llsh*t Detector[tm]... as in the day some critic mentions one I'll know they know enough about vanilla Windows for their comments on the particular RM config to be taken seriously. Because it's restrictive and skill set killing I don't think CC3 makes any particularly impressive Windows skills redundant, but most CC3 people have 3rd party support for everything remotely challenging, didn't have and don't acquire such skills. But if they don't outsource all that then they're dealing with pretty much the same stuff as everyone else.. plus all the spanners RM throw at the system. Imagine for you next job interview in the real world Lots of different jobs out there. If you go work for any serious real world org they will have a well-formed network already, with management tools, standards and procedures. If it's an international org you might find the latter get set by some team in another country. If you can coexist with CC3 chances are you won't have trouble adapting to someone else's existing "restrictive" environment. See also: Any BSF thread for the techie playground vs. corporate management debate.
Quackers Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 I use to like RM Connect in the Connect 2.x and RMNETLM days, when there was just cause to somebody paying for it even competent system managers. After all , what management tools were out there for Windows 9x? You had System Management Server but that was aimed for NT 4 Server and NT 4 Workstation. Most educational software ran on Windows 9x only, which out of the box came with no security, no real managment software, except poledit, which lets face it was easy to get around. Also NT 3.51/NT4 had a very flat managment system, just look at the User Manager, the RM Connect 2.x implimentation of it was very good, gave you what active directory gives you now in a way, you could put users in folders. Also gave you Software Distrobusion software, Quota for File and Print, which NT 4 lacked, the tools were all fast and responsive and looked nice. Microsoft made vast improvments, and i do mean vast, they gave with the OS almost everything you need out of the box, and what did RM do, drag their feet!!!, what happened to an RM Connect that supported Windows ME? Windows 2000 Pro? With a 2003 Server and XP Pro client i can do almost everything a CC3 can do, but can save £100 per client (which is RM's price on the website), and also save on the server side licening which must be £1000's. We have 400 workstations which would cost us £40,000 extra MINIMUM in RM Connect licences. How can anyone justify paying that much for RM Connect 3? The excuse of it saves time is no longer there, the only extra you get is Printer Credit's which Pcounter do a solution for a 1 of £400. Want to push out new software, open the group policy for that OU, add new software, select MSI, a monkey could do it, even without CC3. Look at the Windows forum on the site, people asking about WDS, RM Connect does not use this, but a tech using a vanilla setup will learn and increase his/her skill set, so not only will they know RIS which CC3 does not use, but WDS, so *if* they leave education, they know what they are doing in the real world of Windows Deployment, not RM Fairy Land. As for 200 lines of code to map a printer, i'm affraid i do it in 3. Like i said at the begining, i use to like RM Connect, but now its a waste of money. Even then RM Connect 2.x was not really secure, i left school in 1998, was not allowed on a networked PC in last year of high school, was a "threat" apparently. Went to college where they ran RM Connect 2.3/2.4 Same things RM File Protector peice of piss to get around, you could use the Replicator account to get write access to the C:\Winnt folder on the servers, and thats after they realise you know the Admin2 account is set still to "changeme". As a pupil growing up around RM when i was at high school, i know how the kids feel about them in my own school and why they vandalise the RM equipement but not the other equipment in school, cause its RM!!!!
webman Posted September 28, 2007 Posted September 28, 2007 Well I can say for a start, we do not pay £100 per connect licence, it is a lot cheaper when buying in bulk, like we do. You don't find any use for Connect 3 - great - don't use it We pay for what we think is a good, solid network system with the tools that give us the freedom to concentrate on better things than RIS issues and VBScripts; and yes, we can use the so-called 'excuse' of "saving time" because it genuinely does, for our situation. What some people seem to forget is that we are in an educational environment - not a corporate network. But that doesn't mean I or my colleagues are deskilled because we have an RM network. Personal development comes in to it and whether you run an RM network or not has no baring on that if you a reprepared to learn (like I am).
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