localzuk Posted September 27, 2013 Posted September 27, 2013 Not sure about the touch pad idea. They're useless for gaming on laptops. We'll see though.
X-13 Posted September 27, 2013 Posted September 27, 2013 They're useless for gaming on laptops. This is so true... I've played things where I couldn't move the camera AND move at the same time.
Arthur Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 Not sure about the touchpad idea. They're useless for gaming on laptops. It's just as well they are not like laptop trackpads then. Select game developers used the Steam Controller. Here's what they said « Gamasutra The most prominent, and for some developers and players off-putting feature of the controller are those circular trackpads. But developers who we spoke with essentially said to drop your expectations of what a trackpad is capable (or not capable) of. "These are not like laptop trackpads," Tabar said. "Everyone is like, 'Oh we're replacing thumbsticks with trackpads, oh ****.' [laughs] But this is not at all like a laptop trackpad. It just feels good. It's a challenge to verbally describe it. "When [your thumb] moves toward the outer zone of the trackpad, you can feel that. [The zones on the trackpad] are independent of each other," he added. Other notable features of the controller include the shoulder and trigger buttons and the paddles on the back side. There's also that touch screen in the middle of the controller. "As a gamer, I don't know if that touch screen is exciting, per se. But as a developer, it's really cool. You can swipe and do gesture motions on the little screen." That screen is a physical button too, offering a tactile "click" for players, an advantage over typical touch screens and pads. Chris Remo, designer and writer at The Cave developer Double Fine had a hands-on of the Steam Controller at the San Francisco studio. Remo played a couple different games: Double Fine's upcoming point-and-click adventure game Broken Age and the already-released platform-adventure game The Cave. "We just plugged it in, and it worked," he said. "We didn't have special support for it or anything. It worked really, really well. I was really impressed with the mouse imitation. It doesn't feel like a trackpad."
Rogan Posted September 29, 2013 Author Posted September 29, 2013 I'm still on the fence on this one. I have a preference to console style gaming and dispite the "PC master race" could never convince my self that pluggin a PC in to TV is a good idea. At the moment there are three problems and until Valve convince me they have it sorted, the PS4 looks a better buy in my eyes... SteamOS. How does it work? What does it look like? How much has been designed around a game controller rather than a mouse? Sorry, but the announcement (from what I can see) hasn't said anything but - "look, we've made SteamOS". Linux without Wine. This is the big one. They need publishers. They need publishers to be talking about developing games. They need publishers to be talking about developing current AAA new release games (Watch_Dogs?). They need publishers to be talking about developing current AAA new release games (Watch_Dogs?) in Linux natively. It's all quiet on the western front. The other nigling concern is that it's been tried before, and failed. 3DO tried to get a "common hardware platform for gaming that any manufacturer could produce". It was too expensive. I think SteamOS on it's own is the wrong direction. Valve needed to take control of the hardware and release their own device. I suppose the plus here is that anybody can build their own PC and just put the OS on there - but, unless it's pre-install in the shops I can't see that being appealing to the average consumer. SteamOS has been developed for a number of reason. 1. Becuase MS development of directx is terrible and its only succsess is now based on its massive user base and that AAA developers develop for it. DirectX is in direct competition with their Xbox sales, thus the evolution of the API is slower than any other because of it. 2. PC gamers are slowly dying because the hardware manufacturers are leading the advancments of games, instead of developing for older hardware thats perfectly fine (GTA V Proved this most recenetly) they simply churn out games that use the most powerful hardware instead of optimising it for more users, theres a reason LoL/Dota/minecraft are the biggest games at the moment on PC and its largely because its so accesabile. Consoles don't have this type of hurdle its plug and play. OpenGL will give longer life to hardware as the API is proven better (in AMD anyway) 3. They do have AAA developers developing for steam. The debugger they made has fixed a lot of hurdles for developers on a time scale. 4. Valve hired WineHQ. Ages ago. 5. We THINK steamOS will look like big picture with more control. 6. Don't worry its not for everyone, there will still people who are perfectly happy with buying a console and paying 40quid for games that cost half that on PC and never know what 60fps in 1080p looks like Not sure about the touch pad idea. They're useless for gaming on laptops. We'll see though. Apparently haptic... heptic... hats! is pretty neat and imitates resistance with fancy magnets. I'll buy one regardless I'm really looking forward to something new. If one of my mates tells me I'd be better at CS:GO with a mechnical keyboard I'm going to be sick. I've got a corsair m65 mouse thats made of space age technology and wizardrie. No tappy fappy keyboard will make me better. SteamPad might though
tmcd35 Posted September 30, 2013 Posted September 30, 2013 SteamOS has been developed for a number of reason. 1. Becuase MS development of directx is terrible and its only succsess is now based on its massive user base and that AAA developers develop for it. DirectX is in direct competition with their Xbox sales, thus the evolution of the API is slower than any other because of it. If we're talking API's there's alway OpenGL on Windows. Direct-X is not in compition with XBox since it's the same API on both platforms. Even Sony's new GNMX API is based on Direct-X. 2. PC gamers are slowly dying because the hardware manufacturers are leading the advancments of games, instead of developing for older hardware thats perfectly fine (GTA V Proved this most recenetly) they simply churn out games that use the most powerful hardware instead of optimising it for more users, theres a reason LoL/Dota/minecraft are the biggest games at the moment on PC and its largely because its so accesabile. Consoles don't have this type of hurdle its plug and play. OpenGL will give longer life to hardware as the API is proven better (in AMD anyway) Are they? Consoles claim 42% of gaming market, says Microsoft - Gaming News - Digital Spy. $12bi says PC gaming is alive and well. 3. They do have AAA developers developing for steam. The debugger they made has fixed a lot of hurdles for developers on a time scale. Who? what? games? Detail? GTA:V? 4. Valve hired WineHQ. Ages ago. WINE is about Linux compatibility with Windows API's, and (especially for gaming) Direct-X. Seems very counter to the mission statement of SteamOS to me. 5. We THINK steamOS will look like big picture with more control. I THINK you are right, but we are doing a lot of thinking - detail? 6. Don't worry its not for everyone, there will still people who are perfectly happy with buying a console and paying 40quid for games that cost half that on PC and never know what 60fps in 1080p looks like Story, gameplay, comfort, environement immersion (weather effect, AI, etc), frame rate, then resolution. IMHO. Besides there's no evidence yet that either XB1 or PS4 are not capable of 1080p60 for AAA blockbusters. We just have lunch titles built with game engines ported from PC/current gen. Let's wait and see what the next year brings...
Rogan Posted September 30, 2013 Author Posted September 30, 2013 If we're talking API's there's alway OpenGL on Windows. Direct-X is not in compition with XBox since it's the same API on both platforms. Even Sony's new GNMX API is based on Direct-X.No but its against their Xbox startergy. Windows dons't advertise itself as a gaming platform, xbox deos. Dx is used this way becauase its the most popular and widley used by developers. Mantle is now a contender. Are they? Consoles claim 42% of gaming market, says Microsoft - Gaming News - Digital Spy. $12bi says PC gaming is alive and well. Consoles have been shown to be gaining market. I'm not saying PC gaming is dead but its trends are noticed. Who? what? games? Detail? GTA:V?No one really knows but if you look at steamDB.info more and more games are showing Linux support. Stuff like rome2 is latest rumoured. My money is on the likes of Bethesda releasing a Linux version of their new MMO as the lead dev has voiced very positive things for SteamOS as well as a number of other developers. RPS, Reddit, Polygon for ref WINE is about Linux compatibility with Windows API's, and (especially for gaming) Direct-X. Seems very counter to the mission statement of SteamOS to me. Granted its compatibility. However these guys know their stuff on making stuff work on linux, from what I understand they worked on the debugger that game devs would use to be able to bundle games for Linux. I THINK you are right, but we are doing a lot of thinking - detail?Agreed, but we can't take away from the fact that this is Valve, the man who made Windows what it is today in the game circles is Gabe and I wouldn't expect anything less! Story, gameplay, comfort, environement immersion (weather effect, AI, etc), frame rate, then resolution. IMHO. Besides there's no evidence yet that either XB1 or PS4 are not capable of 1080p60 for AAA blockbusters. We just have lunch titles built with game engines ported from PC/current gen. Let's wait and see what the next year brings...None of the new launch titles have hit previously quoted spec, the new xbox rome type first person is playing in 900p (is that even a resolution) I'm not saying they can't do it, but they definatly can't do it as easily as PC hardware. I'll be an early adoptor
Arthur Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 Valve Releases Specs for Prototype Steam Machine « AnandTech Last week we analyzed Valve’s announcement of their forthcoming SteamOS, Steam Machines, and Steam Controller. There are still a lot of unknowns, but today Valve released the details for their prototype Steam Machine. When the actual Steam Machines begin shipping next year, it will be up to various system builders to decide exactly what configurations they want to ship, but the prototype system will give us a good idea of what to expect in terms of pricing and performance. Here’s what Valve will be shipping to the 300 beta testers in the next month or two – and note that there are going to be multiple CPU and GPU configurations: http://i.imgur.com/6pnTmpD.png Let’s quickly talk about pricing. Note that Valve’s statement mentions, “The hardware specs of [the retail Steam Machines] will differ, in many cases substantially, from our prototype.” There will be some Steam Machines likely priced close to $500, while others will probably cost $2000 or more. There’s a lot of wiggle room, but with a basic case and H81 motherboard the Core i3 + GTX 660 Steam Machine has a hardware cost of approximately $675 retail. Just the CPU and GPU alone at the high-end will set you back $1300+, with the total cost coming in around $1650. Ouch. And that’s not including a controller of any form. Obviously the hardware manufacturers aren’t going to be paying retail prices for bulk orders, but even so there’s a long way to go before Valve’s Steam Machines would be even close to the pricing of the PS4 ($400) and Xbox One ($500). Okay, maybe the Xbox One is at least in reach, but only for the least expensive prototype Valve is sending out. For what’s essentially a full-blown gaming PC, $600 is reasonable, but we have yet to see what the actual SteamOS experience will be like. There are rumors Valve will be building off Ubuntu (nothing confirmed that I know of), and just having a Linux kernel means it’s possible to run other Linux applications. Add a keyboard and mouse and if you’re willing to learn a new OS you should be able to do just about anything you need. As noted in our original analysis, the bigger obstacle to overcome is the lack of native versions of so many games. Streaming means you would have to have a second gaming PC elsewhere in the house, and if you already have that I’m not sure even a $400 Steam Machine would be all that big a draw. Still, we haven’t been able to actually try out SteamOS yet, so we’ll withhold any judgment until it starts shipping.
X-13 Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 [Censored] you beat me to it I was still reading it on Ars. I can see these being expensive... the i7/Titan even more so. And just when I was thinking about forgoing a gaming PC and getting a SteamBox.
Arthur Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 I can see these being expensive... the i7/Titan even more so. Even if you make do with a GTX 780, it will still be over £1,000. [b]CPU:[/b] [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/intel-cpu-bx80646i74770]Intel Core i7-4770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor[/url] (£215.99 @ Aria PC) [b]Motherboard:[/b] [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/asus-motherboard-h81iplus]Asus H81I-PLUS Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard[/url] (£61.37 @ Dabs) [b]Memory:[/b] [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-memory-cml16gx3m2a1600c9]Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory[/url] (£109.99 @ Amazon UK) [b]Storage:[/b] [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/seagate-internal-hard-drive-st1000dx001]Seagate 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive[/url] (£66.60 @ CCL Computers) [b]Video Card:[/b] [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/evga-video-card-03gp42784kr]EVGA GeForce GTX 780 3GB Video Card[/url] (£544.79 @ Aria PC) [b]Case:[/b] [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/bitfenix-case-bfcpro300wwxkwrp]BitFenix Prodigy (White) Mini ITX Tower Case[/url] (£64.34 @ Amazon UK) [b]Power Supply:[/b] [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/part/corsair-power-supply-rm450]Corsair RM 450W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply[/url] (£77.28 @ Novatech) [b]Other:[/b] SteamOS (£0.00) [b]Total:[/b] £1140.36 [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/1KVZ8]PCPartPicker part list[/url] / [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/1KVZ8/by_merchant/]Price breakdown by merchant[/url] / [url=http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/1KVZ8/benchmarks/]Benchmarks[/url] And just when I was thinking about forgoing a gaming PC and getting a SteamBox. Considering the game streaming feature is limited to Windows PCs and Mac's, you might as well get one of those cheap (~£100?) Steam Boxes, connect that to a TV and build your own/upgrade your existing gaming PC.
synaesthesia Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 Why has noone batted an eyelid at the case? Am I the only one thinking "Holy Mother of " - an i7 4770 and Titan, with 1TB SSHD in a 12"x12"x3" case?
X-13 Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Considering the game streaming feature is limited to Windows PCs and Mac's, you might as well get one of those cheap (~£100?) Steam Boxes, connect that to a TV and build your own/upgrade your existing gaming PC. I was just thinking about a pre built gaming machine that can run things well and that doesn't require I sell organs to afford. Why has noone batted an eyelid at the case? Am I the only one thinking "Holy Mother of " - an i7 4770 and Titan, with 1TB SSHD in a 12"x12"x3" case? That did cross my mind, but if it's laid out properly it should be fine. [Heat wise] Even though the Titan is taller than the case, I'm sure Valve thought of that. The thing I was worried about was a Titan running off of a 500w PSU. I thought it needed 650-700w to run properly. Le EDIT: woops, it's a 450w PSU. Even worse. Edited October 5, 2013 by X-13
Arthur Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) Why has no one batted an eyelid at the case? It doesn't seem particularly noteworthy IMO. Falcon Northwest's Tiki Gaming PC is only a bit bigger (WxDxH: 4" x 13.6" x 13") and it has even better specs. If you removed the 2 x SSDs, optical drive, granite base and redesigned it slightly it would be smaller still. http://i.imgur.com/D4CkvwU.jpg Edited October 5, 2013 by Arthur
synaesthesia Posted October 5, 2013 Posted October 5, 2013 Furry muff. The PSU doesn't worry me, 450w is ample yes even including a titan with the correct considerations. Quality over quantity in much case but as said above, no doubt they've thought of everything. That Falcon machine looks pretty nifty though Is that the same Falcon that used to punt "specialist" gear back in the 90's? (For some reason I seem to remember only 2 sets of adverts in the old Computer Shopper mags, the Aries ones with green and black stripes and Falcon.
tmcd35 Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 My first thought - nVidia, that'll do wonders for the uptake of AMD's Mantle API... Second thought- $675(£421, PS4 money). I wonder how an i3 (dual core?) and GTX660 compare, even with 16Gb Ram. Third thought - Is that 6Ghz GDDR5, or 6Gb GDDR5? One news story was listing that as Gb. (or did they say 3Gb VRAM in all?) Final thought - are the consoles themselves definately user upgradable, or are the parts soldered down? I only ask because reports of video ram seem alot for a GTX660 - so non standard parts, and people are already pointing out the size of a GTX Titan.
Sunnyknight Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 (edited) Looking at the specs, again, like @X-13 i'm terribly worried about the 450w psu. I'd expect a 800w. Then we move onto the specs... for £1000... Let me see what i can match it with:- Processor:- I7 3930k £200-£250 on ebay Motherboard:- Sabertooth 2011 socket £200 ebay Ram:- Trindent X 2133mhz 8gb £180 ebay Psu:- Ocz 850w / Nzxt 850w Modular £140 Gfx (the most expensive mother of a gun for this whole rig):- Take your pic, but your looking at about £300+ That comes to.... around £1070 with a nice gfx. Yes the Titan is a god given GFX, but for the power your getting overall from the rig above, to the tiki, it's damn well worth it. Yes i know i've left out some ssds, but that's mainly because i don't know what the preference would be (ie 80gb boot drive and 1tb mechanical disk or?) Just throw the Steam OS on it, and you're good to go. Edited October 7, 2013 by Sunnyknight
localzuk Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 That PSU is fine, so long as it is a high quality supply. I have a 600W in my PC and have no issues. No need for huge PSUs, just good quality.
Arthur Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Looking at the specs, again, like @X-13 i'm terribly worried about the 450w psu. I'd expect a 800w. Valve know what they are doing. It's a non-issue.
Sunnyknight Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 We'll see how it goes, but that's my thoughts on it anyway. I'll buy one, but i may also end up building another rig should it not be... geedede
tmcd35 Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Even without adding in the case and controller to @Sunnyknight's spec (above) that kind of price, for a gaming only rig, bothers me as an up front fee. If I saw the availability of AAA titles I want to play, like Watch_Dogs, and was convinced by the long term support of the platform (as in a system I buy today won't be out dated in 3yrs because the specs have moved on) then I'd put £800 as my upper limit, all in, for the hardware. And that's double PS4's intial outlay. I'm not convinced that this is a serious continder to PS4 ot XB1. What it is is a "first steps", a bit like the original XBox - Microsoft never intended it to grab a large market share, just lay the groundwork for future releases. If it takes off and they prove themselves then this is a PS5/XBox4524245 killer. I'll keep my eye on it. Could be a mid gen purchase in 2-4 years time.
X-13 Posted October 7, 2013 Posted October 7, 2013 Looking at the specs, again, like @X-13 i'm terribly worried about the 450w psu. I'd expect a 800w. There's no need to go that high... I think the reason PC gamers go for higher wattage on PSUs is because, if you get a bad quality one, that 800w beast could only be maxing out at 500w. The fact it's an 80+ Gold PSU should mean that 450w gets you 450w. Valve know what they are doing. It's a non-issue. I hope they can get massive discounts on hardware because they're buying large amounts. A Titan an sub-Titan prices would be awesome.
Arthur Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Not sure about the touch pad idea. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUlzg-fkHak&hd=1
synaesthesia Posted October 12, 2013 Posted October 12, 2013 Aye seems like it works rather well. May take some getting used to, especially for someone that rarely uses a controller (watch me play GTA on an xbox pad, it's hiliarious!)
Arthur Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) What do you reckon to this? We play with the Steam Machine, Valve's game console of the future « The Verge http://i.imgur.com/DDMeQn4.jpg This is Valve's Steam Machine prototype and SteamOS (hands-on) « Engadget SteamOS looks and acts like Big Picture Mode, except it's the basis for the entire hardware system. It's controller-friendly and easy to navigate. The same Steam splash page washes across the screen when it launches, and the same tile-based layout of games and the Steam store are visible at launch. As promised, the OS is built on Linux (not based on Ubuntu, we're told, but entirely custom), though you'd never know it as the only interactive layer is all Steam. That means it also has the limitations of Steam: SteamOS is not the replacement for Windows 8 you've been waiting for. Beyond basics like browsing the web, there's little in the way of standard OS functions. While Valve reps showed off slides of the box's vanity shots using a Windows PC, I asked how I'd view such shots from within SteamOS -- the answer is that there's no real way to do so, as there's no file browsing system or image viewing application. While these limitations may not affect the vast majority of Steam Machine buyers (who are essentially buying a game console), it certainly impacts folks who are looking at Steam Machines as a replacement for their standard PC. Make no mistake: Steam Machines are PCs posing as game consoles, which comes with both positives and negatives. http://i.imgur.com/vpAxTeR.jpg http://i.imgur.com/IpryFxh.jpg http://i.imgur.com/k8Klq45.jpg http://i.imgur.com/zw9sRcG.jpg Edited November 4, 2013 by Arthur
synaesthesia Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I've been throwing my money at the screen with no luck unfortunately. I don't know if it's because £2.45 isn't quite enough or i don't have a cash payment feature. Entirely off topic and unrelated, any ideas for removing coin shaped dents from LCD screens?
X-13 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 What do you reckon to this? Marriage between humans and computers is legal, right?
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