[Guardian] Schools ask parents to stump upfor iPads

[elsiegee40]

Schools ask parents to stump up £200 for iPads | Guardian

 

" Now, ahead of the new school year in September, many schools are asking parents to stump up between £200 and £300 for an iPad or other tablet for their child, or pay for a device in instalments that can vary from £12 to £30 a month, as they rush to keep at the head ofthe information revolution."

 

Anyone on here got a school doing this?

 

" Providing tablets is not an unquestioned money saver for schools. Honywood community science school in Essex gave all its 1,200 pupils a tablet computer for free, although it did ask for a £50 contribution towards insurance. The cost was estimated at around £500,000. But 489 tablets had to be replaced after a year, while four out of 10 needed to be sent for repairs."

 

This doesn't sound good, but I am not surprised.

Edited July 28, 2013 by elsiegee40

[CyberNerd]

We tell all 6th formers to bring in their own devices. KS4 it's 'recommended' but not compulsary.

We have a bursary scheme for students who can't afford it to get a device provided by the school.

The breakage rate is also high (50%) for devices provided by the school but much lower when the students or parents pay for them.

[Kitkatninja]

We were looking at something like this a few years ago (we compared laptops, tablets, etc) and in the end, not only was the initial cost high, but also the running costs (this would have included the VDI infrastructure, the increased IT Support staff, network infrastructure, etc)...

[pcstru]

Not quite yet. We are running a trial with chromebooks this year, with the intention that they will be rolled out to year 7 from Sept 2014. I suspect it will quickly become unsustainable - the devices themselves are not very robust. They scuff and scratch up easily and tatty devices will not be well looked after by students. Still, TPTB have spoken and we, we obey!

[hardtailstar]

We used to have a laptop scheme.

 

Parents would pay a set amount per month and all repairs were fixed under warranty and insurance.

 

It was more trouble than its worth, high costly outlay with laptops ruined within a year or two.

[CyberNerd]

But did the grades improve?

[RichB]

But did the grades improve?

 

This is what I asked our Head when he wanted 1400 iPads. I said prove it improves grades and I will support it. As yet every single article or school he has pointed me to I have countered it views. iPads are great 1:1 tools for home, but in my eyes no where near as good as a laptop or netbook for what the students/staff "actually" need to use it for.

[pcstru]

But did the grades improve?

 

We did a trial several (4?) years ago with netbooks given to Year 8 and 9 classes and one set given to a teacher for use in all their classes. Our data didn't show any statistically significant difference between groups with netbooks and groups without.

 

IMO a lot of data that does proport to show gains associated with the introduction of technology, fails to decouple the changes in teaching culture that are usually a part of the overall project. I suspect you would get the same improvement if you put the same effort into (say) pencil and paper or books. That's not to say technology isn't important, but the stats trotted out by the likes of the E-Learning foundation are not ... 'robust'.

[CyberNerd]

It's also worth looking at attendance figures etc.

2 or 3 hundred pounds every couple of years isn't a great deal of money in the context of how much each pupil brings into the school ( £4k per yearish depending upon your area, pupil premium, sixth form etc.)

[localzuk]

But did the grades improve?

 

This is my question every time this subject is brought up. I've seen statistics for one school saying they had an increase in grades but when compared with the national average? They had increased less.

 

There are countless examples of students themselves thinking the devices are a waste of time too, literally, as many students spend their time messing around on their device rather than actually working.

 

Without a complete rethink of the curriculum to integrate the devices, combined with a thorough staff training course, they can't make much difference.

[Jamman960]

One of my friends son's goes to a school that requires kids have iPad's, they've currently got iPad 2's but they're moving to iPad mini's and still wanting the same £16/mo!

 

He still treats it as a toy and spends most of his time at home playing on it... I can't imagine its much different at school as he spends time on facebook during lessons. He's also ended up buying dozens of paid apps because "the free ones are rubbish" - giving 13 year olds their own ipad's is crazy. Part of me thinks that if they were given laptops or netbooks they'd be used more for work had have far less of the fun/shiny shiny factor

[seawolf]

But did the grades improve?

 

Seriously? If that is the main definition of success, then we should go back to the rote classroom lessons of 50 years ago and abandon everything else, pack all the computers back in the box and pull out pen and paper. Done and dusted.

 

http://danhaesler.com/tag/grades/

 

http://youtu.be/zT4i3MqhJXs

 

I know people like to have some quantitative measure to justify success, but grades aren't the best measure. Just ask the Finns.

[seawolf]

One of my friends son's goes to a school that requires kids have iPad's, they've currently got iPad 2's but they're moving to iPad mini's and still wanting the same £16/mo!

 

He still treats it as a toy and spends most of his time at home playing on it... I can't imagine its much different at school as he spends time on facebook during lessons. He's also ended up buying dozens of paid apps because "the free ones are rubbish" - giving 13 year olds their own ipad's is crazy. Part of me thinks that if they were given laptops or netbooks they'd be used more for work had have far less of the fun/shiny shiny factor

 

Parents (or teachers in the classroom) having seemingly NO CONTROL over 13 year olds and letting them play games or post on Facebook on iPads (or any device) whenever they want or purchase whatever apps they want is the real, actual problem you've pointed out. That is a social problem, not a technical problem. It has nothing to do with the iPads (or Chromebooks, or Galaxy Tabs, or MS Surface, etc.).

[pcstru]

I know people like to have some quantitative measure to justify success, but grades aren't the best measure. Just ask the Finns.

 

So what is?

[localzuk]

Seriously? If that is the main definition of success, then we should go back to the rote classroom lessons of 50 years ago and abandon everything else, pack all the computers back in the box and pull out pen and paper. Done and dusted.

 

http://danhaesler.com/tag/grades/

 

http://youtu.be/zT4i3MqhJXs

 

I know people like to have some quantitative measure to justify success, but grades aren't the best measure. Just ask the Finns.

 

Not sure what you think schools are there for, if you think requiring improvements in pupil outcomes is strange when wanting to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds...

[sparkeh]

I know people like to have some quantitative measure to justify success, but grades aren't the best measure.

Well, we operate in a system where grades are the only measure. In a time of austerity we have to justify money spent against our core objective - grades.

Might not like it but there it is.

[seawolf]

Well, we operate in a system where grades are the only measure. In a time of austerity we have to justify money spent against our core objective - grades.

Might not like it but there it is.

 

Yes, might as well just perpetuate bad decisions. No use in resisting it for the students sake I suppose.

[localzuk]

Yes, might as well just perpetuate bad decisions. No use in resisting it for the students sake I suppose.

 

Ok, what would you use to judge whether spending half a million quid on something new is a good or bad thing?

 

With the approach I'm suggesting - making sure they're actually a good thing, based on measurable outcomes - I get to see that they won't harm the education of our students. What do your suggest then?

[sparkeh]

Yes, might as well just perpetuate bad decisions. No use in resisting it for the students sake I suppose.

Don't think I advocated perpetuating bad decisions.

What I am saying is that yes I think there should be some kind of measurable outcome for investing thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands) of pounds. There is a huge burden on schools to improve grades so this is a natural measurable to choose. Whilst I agree that schools are more than just about grades, they are the bottom line. A school may turn out lovely well rounded members of society but if they have a string of rubbish grades then they have been failed.

 

So what factors would you choose to think about when spending this kind of money?

[seawolf]

Ok, what would you use to judge whether spending half a million quid on something new is a good or bad thing?

 

With the approach I'm suggesting - making sure they're actually a good thing, based on measurable outcomes - I get to see that they won't harm the education of our students. What do your suggest then?

 

How about looking at the students overall wellbeing, their engagement and desire to learn? Creating critical and creative thinkers with a real lifelong love of learning should be the real goal. Too many students just do only what is necessary and as soon as they can get out of school are happily resigned to never attend any sort of class or pick up a book for the purpose of learning anything ever again. They hated school and have no desire to approach anything that looks like school or learning ever again.

 

Better grades too often don't demonstrate better engagement or desire for learning, but can just be a byproduct of more pressure being out on teachers and students, incentives for performance being introduced (monetary or otherwise), a lowering of standards, or simply cheating by the students or the school itself to increase funding.

[sidewinder]

I just think the whole situation of parents having to pay for devices is wrong. You don't have to pay for textbooks so why an iPad? If they want to provide one for each child the school should fund it themselves.

 

Personally, although I see a value of iPads in education, I believe in them being school owned devices, similar to a set of laptops. I can see some advantages of personal ownership but I don't think they are worth the vast cost and misuse potential involved. For older pupils and sixth formers it makes more sense, but on the basis of 'if you have one you can bring it in' with school owned devices for loan for those who don't, not 'you must buy an ipad'

[seawolf]

I just think the whole situation of parents having to pay for devices is wrong. You don't have to pay for textbooks so why an iPad? If they want to provide one for each child the school should fund it themselves.

 

Personally, although I see a value of iPads in education, I believe in them being school owned devices, similar to a set of laptops. I can see some advantages of personal ownership but I don't think they are worth the vast cost and misuse potential involved. For older pupils and sixth formers it makes more sense, but on the basis of 'if you have one you can bring it in' with school owned devices for loan for those who don't, not 'you must buy an ipad'

 

I suppose I have a different perspective on this. We DO have to pay for textbooks here. It's still the same in the states I believe. Many employers are going BYOD and not supplying computers or phones to staff, that will become more the norm as time goes on. The problem with the 'bring anything' idea in schools though is that there are many devices that just aren't practical or workable in a school environment, and the more diverse the devices the more capable the IT systems, IT staff, and teachers need to be to cope with it. That increases costs for systems, staff, and training. And it's not as if the devices required by schools can ONLY be used for schoolwork. Whereas, textbooks can only be used for school, or as a very expensive paperweight.

[sidewinder]

I suppose I have a different perspective on this. We DO have to pay for textbooks here. It's still the same in the states I believe. Many employers are going BYOD and not supplying computers or phones to staff, that will become more the norm as time goes on. The problem with the 'bring anything' idea in schools though is that there are many devices that just aren't practical or workable in a school environment, and the more diverse the devices the more capable the IT systems, IT staff, and teachers need to be to cope with it. That increases costs for systems, staff, and training. And it's not as if the devices required by schools can ONLY be used for schoolwork. Whereas, textbooks can only be used for school, or as a very expensive paperweight.

 

All fair points

 

I was thinking it would make sense for college and uni students in this country as they do have to buy textbooks, and being able to get them digitally on a device which can also do a lot of other things is a no brainer

[pcstru]

How about looking at the students overall wellbeing, their engagement and desire to learn? Creating critical and creative thinkers with a real lifelong love of learning should be the real goal.

 

So how do you measure "engagement", "desire to learn" or "critical and creative thinking"? What if a school measured high on "engagement" and "desire to learn" but all the students flunked their GCSE - would that be a success or a failure?

 

Too many students just do only what is necessary and as soon as they can get out of school are happily resigned to never attend any sort of class or pick up a book for the purpose of learning anything ever again. They hated school and have no desire to approach anything that looks like school or learning ever again.

 

You say that based on what data? In the UK we have the highest ever number of students going into higher education. If that doesn't reflect a desire to learn - what does?

 

Better grades too often don't demonstrate better engagement or desire for learning, but can just be a byproduct of more pressure being out on teachers and students, incentives for performance being introduced (monetary or otherwise), a lowering of standards, or simply cheating by the students or the school itself to increase funding.

 

If you want to say they are "lowering standards" when infact the metrics in play show standards are improving, then you need some hard data. Otherwise it's just hot air.

[localzuk]

How about looking at the students overall wellbeing, their engagement and desire to learn? Creating critical and creative thinkers with a real lifelong love of learning should be the real goal. Too many students just do only what is necessary and as soon as they can get out of school are happily resigned to never attend any sort of class or pick up a book for the purpose of learning anything ever again. They hated school and have no desire to approach anything that looks like school or learning ever again.

 

Better grades too often don't demonstrate better engagement or desire for learning, but can just be a byproduct of more pressure being out on teachers and students, incentives for performance being introduced (monetary or otherwise), a lowering of standards, or simply cheating by the students or the school itself to increase funding.

 

You seem to be assuming that by looking at measurable things, those aspects are ignored? Creativity can be graded. Independent learning can be graded. The issue is this - pupils are taught what they need to survive in life. Yes, creativity and love of learning are massively important, but if we don't focus on grades then we end up with another generation of kids who spell everything without any vowels, or think that Moscow is in Spain...

 

We can only justify expenditure with proof that it'll improve the education of our children. We can't justify it by saying "they might like it as it might make them more creative".

 

I suppose I have a different perspective on this. We DO have to pay for textbooks here. It's still the same in the states I believe. Many employers are going BYOD and not supplying computers or phones to staff, that will become more the norm as time goes on. The problem with the 'bring anything' idea in schools though is that there are many devices that just aren't practical or workable in a school environment, and the more diverse the devices the more capable the IT systems, IT staff, and teachers need to be to cope with it. That increases costs for systems, staff, and training. And it's not as if the devices required by schools can ONLY be used for schoolwork. Whereas, textbooks can only be used for school, or as a very expensive paperweight.

 

I know of a good number of employers who have tried BYOD, seen that it is a complete disaster (and cost them more than just buying stuff themselves), and scrapped it. There is always an opposite to every reaction.

 

I simply cannot see the justification for 1:1 devices yet - they simply don't seem to add to the education of our kids any more than a half dozen more teachers would.