Starting from scratch

[Mouse77e]

Dear All -

 

I seem to had been volunteered to write my own brief for today's ideal infrastructure for a new free school. The whole thing from the internet connection to the WiFi to the printers to the record management system - from soup to nuts as our American chums would say.

 

Some of the ideas in this video from Apple - Apple (United Kingdom) - Essa Academy - resonate strongly with the education team on the project and to be honest limiting the time spent on antivirus alone is worth the cost.

 

As school IT professionals and my fellow geeks I'd value your opinions, thoughts and input.

 

Ask any questions - I'll do my best to answer.

 

Many thanks

 

Mouse

[elsiegee40]

Even Apple devices get malware now. That is no reason to base your network on them in my opinion.

 

I need to think before expressing further opinion.

[teejay]

Apple devices do have serious security holes, don't believe the rubbish that comes out of Apple and their fans on this.

Anyway, I would say the ideal is to make your core network client device neutral, so anything from Windows PC's to Blackberry phones can connect and use your network in a safe, secure manner. Bring Your Own Device seems to be taking off in schools, so you need to support that, plus the ability to provide devices that are correct for the task in hand which is why saying 'lets go all Apple' is very limiting.

[Mr.Ben]

For your back end its more than likely that you will still be using Windows servers, as Apple don't really do enterprise software. You will still need a MIS, File Servers and Remote Access for Staff.

 

Some of this can be done with Google Apps of Office 365 for free, but not all of it.

 

Your Staff at the school will require PCs or Macs to work from, as an iPad is not an appropriate tool.

 

There is 'ideal' and then there is 'realistic'.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Mr.Ben

[CAM]

Apple malware dev kits were released last year I believe. This makes it as simple to create a virus targeting an Apple platform as it is on a Windows platform. Ironically a FakeAV program was released shortly after and it's spread was compounded by a lack of Antivirus software, Apple's lack of experience in the security field and a somewhat arrogant belief by Apple users that they didn't need security. The response was the way Safari handled downloads was quielty altered to be more in line with Windows browsers so it no longer opened files by default. Apple also removed a load of "no malware here" boasts from their website...

[TechMonkey]

I would say at this stage don't limit your self to thinking about 1 end device. Think about trying to provide access to any device, sort your back-end infrastructure to solve that problem, sort your network infrastructure to handle the load and facilitate the connection and interaction, plan your resources and applications (if possible) to give the widest possible access and then you can go to management and be confident to say throw what ever you like at me I can connect it.

[tmcd35]

How did you get such a lucky break? To say I'm jealous wouldn't even begin to cover it!

 

Things I'll think about...

 

• Internet Connection - Gigabit fibre carrier with EFM backup
  
• Routers, Firewalls and VPN
  
• Switches and VLAN's
  
• Managed WiFi - 802.11ab (I think that's the new standard replacing 802.11n)
  
• BOYD/1 Device per pupil - Tablets/Android/iPads
  
• Server Virtualisation - HyperV vs VMWare - failover clustering
  
• SAN's
  
• System Center 2012
  
• Thin Clients
  
• Virtual PC's and/or Virtual Apps
  
• iMac's for Music, Art, Media
  
• CAD tools and 3D printers for technology
  
• Management Information System
  
• Help Desk software, Asset Management and Room Bookings
  
• Finance Software
  
• Assessment and Behaviour Software
  

 

I think I've bearly scratched the surface with that list!

 

EDIT: Just realised that list is based off an assumption that the Free school is a secondary school or pretty large primary. For a primary, I think the list would be a little different

Edited July 19, 2013 by tmcd35

[Roberto]

Let's start with a different approach. Blue sky ideas about tech are all well and good but you're being asked to provide this 'ideal vision' in order to solve a problem.

 

So what problems, precisely, is the school hoping to solve with this ideal network setup? How do they see classroom IT requirements, and how do they perceive the support structure for the school? Do staff even have fixed office space or all they all expected to "roam" and find a free bit of desk space wherever they can?

And if they don't know the answer to that. then you're unable to answer the ideal spec question.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Roberto

[SpuffMonkey]

What he said ^ - you really need to iron out what the school requires and how it wants to work prior to design.

 

A difficult and thankless task in my experience, as few people want to spend time REALLY thinking about their requirements in a strategic way, and you can get looked on as being obstructive because you're not "getting on with it" - on the plus side once you've consulted and ticked off the major players and they have all nodded sagely but added nothing to the pot you can go on and do what you want with a clean conscience ;-)

[mthomas08]

Even Apple devices get malware now. That is no reason to base your network on them in my opinion.

 

I need to think before expressing further opinion.

 

This is how I feel.

 

I have just been looking at replacement keyboards and mice typical starting price around £40 per pair when I can spend £100 for 30 normal mice/keyboards for Windows PCs. (Course I am looking at Ebay now).

 

As for Security breaches they are not "MORE" secure they are simply "LESS TARGETTED" why target something that is usually 10-300 vs Windows machines in a typical network.

 

I would seriously consider ALL options before considering Macs. I have a phrase "Macs don't get abused because they are rarely used" which is very true in both schools I have worked at. They are the pretty thing on the table that everyone wants one but then they boot camp them with Windows because there is software that they will want to use.

 

Is there alternatives? Yes - Android mixed with Google mail, drive and docs. The tablets will be cheaper then the iPad.

 

Your core system as others have said will most likely be Windows based unless you want a more "open" route, you also have a choice of BYOD.

 

Next year I will be looking at something regarding mobile tech because our current netbooks 10.1 screens, cheap with Windows 7 Starter are simply not being made any more.

Problem for us is we have a load of software which we have either purchased for the netbooks or free software which is Windows 7 only so I would have to find alternatives.

 

Our staff here prefer to use keyboards but do like the "fancy" tablet route. Again if I was you I would take everyone's advice and pull up different setups and see the cost involved. Was a project I did some years ago for a primary school which was more of a favour for the Head. I would also add you will need to consider the future as well. Prime example is the Macs staff get them and are happy with turn on and work till a year or two later they want to logon, get their drives, software and permission it for users.

[Mouse77e]

To answer a couple of points, and to help you to advise me -

 

The school will indeed be a secondary school, starting from 2014 there will be an intake of 200 or so students per year.

 

The focus on iPads has been shaped by two factors - dependant on one device per child - one of the schools we have talked to has made £60,000+ digit savings on photocopying alone by sending corse work and letters to parents etc as emails. Add to that the savings in text books by teachers making or buying in iBooks.

 

We are in the position where we have funding and support to open the school and use IT to influence and shape the teaching within the school - what we don't have is the experience of opening a secondary free school.

 

Many thanks for all input - it is greatly appreciated.

[teejay]

To answer a couple of points, and to help you to advise me -

 

The school will indeed be a secondary school, starting from 2014 there will be an intake of 200 or so students per year.

 

The focus on iPads has been shaped by two factors - dependant on one device per child - one of the schools we have talked to has made £60,000+ digit savings on photocopying alone by sending corse work and letters to parents etc as emails. Add to that the savings in text books by teachers making or buying in iBooks.

 

We are in the position where we have funding and support to open the school and use IT to influence and shape the teaching within the school - what we don't have is the experience of opening a secondary free school.

 

Many thanks for all input - it is greatly appreciated.

 

Sending emails to parents/students instead of paper has no requirement for iPads. Buying eBooks has no requirement for iPads nor does content creation. All of this can be done using a multitude of devices including any brand of tablet, smartphones and desktop/laptop computers. None of what you have stated requires the school to lock themselves to a particular vendor.

 

Is it right for a school to be tied to one vendor, shouldn't a school be vendor neutral so that students can experience a much broader range of different devices which best support the task?

Would you be happy with a school that for instance only bought books published by Penguin, only allowed students to wear Adidas trainers in PE, could only drink products made by Coca Cola in school?

[MatthewL]

Telephone Systems, Door Access, CCTV and printing are a few things I would add to it. If you are starting from scratch I would implement a MFD based follow me print solution using door access token/swipe card.

[Mouse77e]

All good points, thank you.

 

On the subject of BYOD -vs- Single vendor whether that is iPad, Samsung Tab, Dell Laptop, whatever...

 

Isn't it better to use one device and support it well than to have two or three tier education based on parental income?

 

Perhaps this is playing Devil's advocate here but if you have a class where one child has a second hand Dell running XP, next to them is a child with an Android tablet and next to them is a child with an iPad, trying to run a system to support and provide for the lowest common denominator detrimental to the education needs of the whole class?

 

Or would you subscribe to using one device - a tablet - as a text book solution to be fully supported and let the child use their BYOD as their 'exercise' book?

[elsiegee40]

My issue with tablets is their durability. I admit this is hearsay, but it seems that schools that have implemented them have found that a high percentage don't make it to the end of the first academic year.

 

It is all very trendy for students, but seriously I would look at BYOD. If the school relies on the pupils having them for teaching, what happens when the devices break / aren't charged / get dropped / get left on the bus / etc ? It will happen... too often for comfort, I'm afraid.

[truebluesteve]

I think you are running the risk of selecting a product and finding solutions to make it work for you. As others have said do you really want to be tied in to one vendor - not me.

 

Apple don't discount hardware for education in the way other suppliers do and even the ones they do offer are tiny. The hardware itself is no more reliable than PC hardware and in my experience less so and far more expensive to repair. If the logic board fails on a 2 year old iMac you might as well throw the whole thing away.

 

I'm not against Apple kit - I have an iMac at home and 60 iPads at school but I do have choices and I have been asked to trial some Windows tablets which I'm looking forward to!

[synaesthesia]

I hope both you and the related staff are fully aware of what you *don't* see at that Essa academy. It's not all song and dance, and their "paperless" solutions are far less rosy than many would like to believe.

I would strongly recommend against a mass consumer grade device deployment in an education setting just because it looks shiny or because someone has seen someone else do it and go "ooh, shiny". There are other solutions, better solutions, better ideas and what works for one school (not using the above example as such an example) won't necessarily work for another.

[m25man]

Infrastructure is key, none of what you "Dream" is going to be possible if you don't have the underlying delivery mechanisms.

 

Horizontal and Verticals, Passive and Active infrastructure is all key to your end point delivery.

 

With Gigabit desktops you now need 10GBe to the edge, with potentially hundreds of wireless devices per uplink 10GBe to your wireless APs is highly likely to be a requirement in the next few years.

 

Maybe there will be fewer copper desktop outlets as we will actively move to wireless for even more purposes.

The vendors are all making 10GBe copper distribution switches now and the prices are dropping fast.

10GBe server adapters are approaching £200 each there will be a revolution in the core switch departments of most SMBs in the not too distant future.

 

Video over wireless will be commonplace with machines being able to select TV's as secondary output devices using Apple Airplay and Windows "Play to" and don't forget Intels WiDI is still to make its mark, this wireless video feature is likely to be standard on most Wintel platforms.

 

Touch screen IPS panels will fall in price to levels we pay now for monitors, (imagine an LG 24" LED with multitouch for less than £100).

 

Keep a good focus on the delivery infrastructure and less on the end users devices, users will change devices much faster than the foundations you put in, and it won't be easy to change the infrastructure to keep up once its installed.

Too much emphasis is put on the word iPad, its just another end user device that will become obsolete as quickly as it arrived only to be replaced by something else that needs more bandwidth and faster wifi.

 

As speeds go past 10GBe cable and optical distances achieved shorten, so we need to consider Single Mode Fibre and Screened Cat6e and beyond.

As the carrier networks focus on delivering 100GBe bearers we will all be focusing on 10GBe in house.

The cycle starts all over again driven by consumer demand and the evolution of technology.

 

I remember telling clients that Gigabit was all they are likely to need in our lifetime.... Now we have no idea what's just around the corner.

Keep an open mind and realise anything is possible you just haven't thought of it yet!

[Roberto]

Rather than the "I hate iPads/Apple" stance taken by some of the other regulars above, I'd like to say that I *love* Apple gear for home use and I think the iPad is a fantastic bit of kit. But that doesn't mean it's automatically the best solution for lesson delivery.

 

The superb post by m25man makes some good points - before you get too far bogged down in the client end of things you need to ensure the infrastructure can support whatever you choose. Equally you have to make sure there's enough money in the budget to buy the clients if you buy top of the line infrastructure...

 

And without wishing to sound offensive, if your organisation was previously spending so much time on managing antivirus issues then it's likely that you either had the wrong product or it wasn't deployed optimally. This is an infrastrucure problem of a sort, and is the kindof bad practice needs to be resolved wherever you go next.

 

For example If you issue one device to a student then making sure they all have the apps they need for their classes is far from trivial, and if you choose a poor MDM platform or no MDM platform at all then you'll find managing classroom sets of iPads equally as frustrating.

 

The focus on iPads has been shaped by two factors - dependant on one device per child - one of the schools we have talked to has made £60,000+ digit savings on photocopying alone by sending corse work and letters to parents etc as emails.

 

I don't see how tablet provision has anything to do with sending emails home to parents rather than paper letters. Give me the email addresses of all the students and I could do that perfectly easily from my desktop computer without even having to remember where I left 'my' work iPad.

 

Course work should already be on your VLE, rendering that a moot point whatever choice you make (oh, does the VLE work with mobile safari?).

 

As for "one device per child", keep in mind that you'll need spares, etc. and you'll need to ensure that classroom sets remain working all day and don't run out of battery halfway through the last lesson - that's an issue with issuing any mobile device, laptop, tablet, whatever to classes of course, but it still needs to be addressed; those claims for long battery life made by all high end tablet manufactures aren't reached by testing the devices in the typical classroom free-for-all.

 

Add to that the savings in text books by teachers making or buying in iBooks.

 

Someone has presumably verified that your curriculum requirements can fully be met by iBooks then?

 

We are in the position where we have funding and support to open the school and use IT to influence and shape the teaching within the school - what we don't have is the experience of opening a secondary free school.

 

Many thanks for all input - it is greatly appreciated.

 

I know my reply probably seems quite harsh and to the point, and that's somewhat intentional. Not to give offence but to try and get sharper thinking around what sounds like a rather wooly and vague idea right now.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Roberto

[seawolf]

Apple devices do have serious security holes, don't believe the rubbish that comes out of Apple and their fans on this.

Anyway, I would say the ideal is to make your core network client device neutral, so anything from Windows PC's to Blackberry phones can connect and use your network in a safe, secure manner. Bring Your Own Device seems to be taking off in schools, so you need to support that, plus the ability to provide devices that are correct for the task in hand which is why saying 'lets go all Apple' is very limiting.

 

First, let me say that I have a long history with UNIX (and Linux), Windows, And Mac systems. I use them all for both servers and end-point clients. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. I agree with trying to be device agnostic to a point, but if you go too far with this strategy then nothing runs very well or is well integrated.

 

However, your statement about serious security holes in Apple devices needs comment. There are FAR fewer security issues in Macs or iOS devices than any Windows or Android device. To state otherwise is to mislead. The only true widely exploitable weaknesses in OSX are related to either Java or Flash, or other 3rd-party applications. iOS is still almost untouched malware wise, especially compared to Android. Now, Solaris and most Linux distros have even fewer security issues than Apple OS's and if you're truly building a secure, malware free system you'd choose those. But, OSX or iOS being in the same boat as Windows or Android? Not a chance. Maybe one day, but not anytime soon.

[seawolf]

To answer a couple of points, and to help you to advise me -

 

The school will indeed be a secondary school, starting from 2014 there will be an intake of 200 or so students per year.

 

The focus on iPads has been shaped by two factors - dependant on one device per child - one of the schools we have talked to has made £60,000+ digit savings on photocopying alone by sending corse work and letters to parents etc as emails. Add to that the savings in text books by teachers making or buying in iBooks.

 

We are in the position where we have funding and support to open the school and use IT to influence and shape the teaching within the school - what we don't have is the experience of opening a secondary free school.

 

Many thanks for all input - it is greatly appreciated.

 

Now to address your questions.

 

As a couple of others have stated, I would first be looking at the base infrastructure as it is the foundation of everything you do. If you have under spec'd servers, a slow network, or inadequate WAN speeds and bandwidth - nothing you do will be without big problems. Here's where I would focus:

 

1. Build a fast network with high quality managed Layer 2/3 Cisco or HP Gigabit PoE switches with 10GbE connectivity to the core. You will either need a router or Layer 3 core switch to handle routing for your VLANs (use a lot of VLANS). Buy the very best you can afford and have them configured by someone who knows how to build a fast reliable, modern network.

 

2. A virtualised server environment with 2-3 highly spec'd servers with at least 8 cores, 48GB RAM, and 10GbE connectivity to the core switch and a high performance SAN or NAS supporting iSCSI and/or NFS. Flash write caches and lots of RAM recommended on the SAN. Buy the best spec'd servers and SAN you can afford.

 

3. A high quality WiFi system such as Ruckus or Aerohive (my favourites) with either 802.11n or 802.11ac.

 

4 Well configured and spec'd VM servers, configured on a service basis (don't have two servers do everything from authenticate users to make a cup of coffee for them).

 

5. Good backup systems for VMs and end-user data (VEEAM, Zmanda, BackupAssist, NetVault, Symmantec - take your pick)

 

6. Buy as much speed and bandwidth as you can for your WAN - 100Mb fibre or faster is ideal. If you can't afford that get a 20-40Mb connection at least.

 

Once you have all of that then you can think about the end user requirements. Seriously. For instance, if you decide to go with iPads, Chromebooks, Surface Tablets, etc. then you will find them all to be problematic without the base infrastructure (I'm not in agreement with the generic or multiple vendor Android tablet argument some have proposed on here - they are a nightmare to support and manage if you do that). Now, based on what end-point clients you do go with, then you will have to decide on what specific solutions you will need on the back end to support that. Examples are that you will need Google Apps if you use Chromebooks and it would be good to have an SSO solution for it so users only had one login with AD, etc. or if you go with iPads you might want to use something like MobileEcho for providing access to a Windows file server (or you might just use a Mac server to do MDM and file services). If you go with PCs and Surface tablets, you will want SCCM, with Macs you might want DeployStudio, Casper Suite, etc.

 

Get the base infrastructure right and all of the rest will come together with just a bit of thought and work.

Edited July 21, 2013 by seawolf

[teejay]

First, let me say that I have a long history with UNIX (and Linux), Windows, And Mac systems. I use them all for both servers and end-point clients. Each has their strengths and weaknesses. I agree with trying to be device agnostic to a point, but if you go too far with this strategy then nothing runs very well or is well integrated.

 

However, your statement about serious security holes in Apple devices needs comment. There are FAR fewer security issues in Macs or iOS devices than any Windows or Android device. To state otherwise is to mislead. The only true widely exploitable weaknesses in OSX are related to either Java or Flash, or other 3rd-party applications. iOS is still almost untouched malware wise, especially compared to Android. Now, Solaris and most Linux distros have even fewer security issues than Apple OS's and if you're truly building a secure, malware free system you'd choose those. But, OSX or iOS being in the same boat as Windows or Android? Not a chance. Maybe one day, but not anytime soon.

 

Actually Apple had more security vulnerabilities than Microsoft in 2012, but that's not my point and I didn't compare Apple against anyone else, my point being that any OS will have vulnerabilities and you shouldn't go in with rose tinted glasses believing the marketing hype from any vendor about how secure their OS is.

[Mouse77e]

So - having read the comments, and I'd like to share with you our starting point for the tender document we're going to put out there soon. Many points have been brought up from this forum - Feel free to poke holes in it (constructively please)

 

=======================================

How the use of ICT will support learning, teaching, management and administration of the new school.

 

The school requires a secure, safe, simple and flexible ICT system to enrich pupils and staff. We have the full range of abilities and all must be comfortable with the system we provide.

 

Buildings

The school buildings are envisaged to be either new build or custom refit’s of existing school buildings. It is deemed best to move directly into a section of our property and extend the facilities as needs be.

 

Network

We are planning a wired network infrastructure terminating in wireless access in each education spaces. These hubs will support wireless learning devices for the student and teaching bodies.

 

A second secure network will be reserved for the administration of the school.

 

The provision of specialist network access may be required for specialised ICT or Music teaching spaces.

 

Broadband

High speed broadband, preferably using future-proofed fibre optic connectivity should be built into the site and throttled to suite the load on the system as the school expands on opening.

 

Classrooms

Each education space should be provided with a large media screen. Either a data projection device or large screen monitor/TV linked with a data connection device such as an Apple TV or other suitable devices.

 

We would like to embrace the recent developments in the National Curriculum towards ICT proficiency and stimulate the classroom experience through handheld devices. Whilst Microsoft and Android devices offer a range of choices we feel at this time Apple’s education infrastructure and devices, iBooks, iTunes U, iPads offers a more valuable choice.

 

We would also like to use technology to reduce our carbon footprint by limiting the volume of photocopying, printing to paper and the inherent wastage therein. We would prefer to used Apple’s iBook’s or similar to reduce the reliance of text books that are ever more frequently revised or cast aside by new curriculums.

 

We however foresee the need for a limited number of networked printers for those times when printing to paper is a necessary resource. Perhaps one per group of classes.

 

NB. We may have to research items such as the TabCabby 32 if we go for the class by class option.

 

Pupils

We would like to examine the options for distributing devices to the student body either on a class by class (devices to remain in the education space) or to issue a device to each student on an extended basis

 

Teachers

We would also expect our staff to be equipped with a laptop to create the textbooks and interact with the school.

 

Administration

We expect to equip our administrators with Apple desktop machines which will be updated and refreshed regularly on a three year lease cycle. We believe having reliable infrastructure for the administration of the school is vital. We would like to examine the possibilities of using cloud services such as Google Docs, Zoho, Dropbox or Shareware/freeware solutions such as NeoOffice or OpenOffice to limit licensing costs.

---

[mrbios]

A second secure network will be reserved for the administration of the school.

 

I haven't read further than this yet but, can you explain this bit? because that sentence reaks of "curric network + admin network" which is a very very out dated way of setting up a network. I'm hoping I've just read into it wrong though

 

EDIT: with regards to end user devices you've mentioned iPads but nothing else? What desktops will you be using? If you're not planning on any how are you going to deliver art (photoshop?) and computing (visual studio, scratch, kudo etc?) and further software that specifically benefits from a fixed desktop + MS OS? I've not read the rest of the thread to see your replies on this aspect though so i apologies if I'm repeating something, or is this document just an "outline" without specifics? (albeit the ipads are in there)

Edited July 21, 2013 by mrbios

[synaesthesia]

I've already zoned out. It reads "Oooh, shiny shiny!" with a picture of someone dangling some keys in front of some open jawed administrators.

Sorry, blunt mode. I'll pay attention if the school isn't in ofsted's naughty corner within 5 years.

 

Great example of why it's very much an "Ooh, shiny shiny" case - that very last line.

iShinypads everywhere and iDesktops, and worried about licensing costs.... I don't believe the students' best interests are being catered for.

Edited July 21, 2013 by synaesthesia