tmcd35 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 C / C# / C++ vs Java is completely different. I mean, completely. Which is why a lot of universities teach Java in year one before moving on to C and Assembler in later years?
Sunnyknight Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Which is why a lot of universities teach Java in year one before moving on to C and Assembler in later years? You do realize that C and Java can be traced back to their origins to be known for their differences? I would love to see which of the top-end Universities focus on Java and don't dive right into C. I know Oxford, Cambridge, Keele, Aston, De-motford (however you spell it), Warwick, Bath and Hertfordshire do not. Straight into C they go. Java is optional in the 2nd year as a module for most.
bondbill2k2 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 I think that's what X-13 was getting at Sunnyqueen brilliant game idea: You're an IT Technician in a school. It's home time, you've picked up your things and ready to leave. The plot of the game? Escape to your car whilst trying to avoid fire-breathing teachers/snot shooting kids with their petty requests. Final Boss could be RM trying to sell you their latest products.* *Disclaimer: It's a sh1t3 idea, I know An IT support sim might work great, reminds me of papers please and the call center sim... which later cost him his job at a call center
LosOjos Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 You do realize that C and Java can be traced back to their origins to be known for their differences? I would love to see which of the top-end Universities focus on Java and don't dive right into C. I know Oxford, Cambridge, Keele, Aston, De-motford (however you spell it), Warwick, Bath and Hertfordshire do not. Straight into C they go. Java is optional in the 2nd year as a module for most. All languages are different, otherwise they wouldn't be different languages. Java is often taught early because it's fairly easy to pick up and 100% OO. BTW: - Oxford start off teaching Haskell - Cambridge start you off on Java - Keele don't specify on their website but do say "a contemporary programming language" - so probably not C and actually quite likely Java or something.NET I won't go on, but the point is: don't make false claims, they're too easy to disprove!
tmcd35 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 You do realize that C and Java can be traced back to their origins to be known for their differences? I know the origins of both languages and am aware of some of the differences. But really that (in my opinion) is not important. I don't believe - at least as a beginner - you should really be "learning" one language. The language itself is unimportant. You need to learn the basic concepts of programming which are then transferrable to which ever language you decide learn/focus on later. Java is a good foundation because it's relatively easy to pick up (read more hand holding) and instills a very object-orientated design methology. Personally I think C based languages are the worst to start with. You need to do a lot more work to get good results out of them, which can be deflaiting for a beginner.
JJonas Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 An IT support sim might work great, reminds me of papers please and the call center sim... which later cost him his job at a call center IT Crowd - the game
bondbill2k2 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) All languages are different, otherwise they wouldn't be different languages. Java is often taught early because it's fairly easy to pick up and 100% OO. BTW: - Oxford start off teaching Haskell - Cambridge start you off on Java - Keele don't specify on their website but do say "a contemporary programming language" - so probably not C and actually quite likely Java or something.NET I won't go on, but the point is: don't make false claims, they're too easy to disprove! Not top university's at all but I know Birmingham, Stafford and Wolverhampton all teach java as a first year module on computer science followed by OO java, then C if you take the game dev route. Even if just for the first few weeks i'd expect programming fundamentals to be taught in a more basic language then C. How about phython, I've not used it but I hear its a great starting language plus code academy support it. Check out their projects after doing some lessons Edited June 24, 2013 by bondbill2k2 1
Fleetwood Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 IT Crowd - the game And for a cameo, when you try to boot the game for the first time. "The application has encountered an error... try turning it off and on again."
Geoff Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) Python is great fun to learn/program in. Google Labs have some really good tutorials. https://developers.google.com/edu/python/ Edited June 24, 2013 by Geoff 2
Sunnyknight Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) All languages are different, otherwise they wouldn't be different languages. Java is often taught early because it's fairly easy to pick up and 100% OO. BTW: - Oxford start off teaching Haskell - Cambridge start you off on Java - Keele don't specify on their website but do say "a contemporary programming language" - so probably not C and actually quite likely Java or something.NET I won't go on, but the point is: don't make false claims, they're too easy to disprove! -Haskell is not Java, and they DID start off with C when i was in Uni, things have changed without a doubt. -A student who is studying Computer Science Games Development and another who is studying Computer Science Software Engineering has told me otherwise. No offence, i take their word over yours. Again, no offence. -A friend who i've just phoned and is studying Bio-Chem has told me they don't start off with Java. (I presume he asked one of his mates or checked the modules). Why would i need to make false claims over the internet? Edited June 24, 2013 by Sunnyknight
Sunnyknight Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Python is great fun to learn/program in. Google Labs have some really good tutorials. https://developers.google.com/edu/python/ I second this.
bondbill2k2 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) Why would i need to make false claims over the internet? Virtual gonads? Title alone on this book makes it a winner,even if the reviews aren't great. Edited June 24, 2013 by bondbill2k2 1
LosOjos Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) -Haskell is not Java. -A student who is studying Computer Science Games Development and another who is studying Computer Science Software Engineering has told me otherwise. No offence, i take their word over yours. Again, no offence. -A friend who i've just phoned and is studying Bio-Chem has told me they don't start off with Java. (I presume he asked one of his mates or checked the modules). Why would i need to make false claims over the internet? Haskell isn't C based either. Well, obviously if you know people then listen to them but everything I said was taken straight from their websites. In this day and age where just about everything is OO, it doesn't make sense to learn to code in C. C is almost exclusively reserved for embedded programming nowadays. I have no idea why you would feel the need to make false claims on the Internet it just seems you have make a lot of claims that clash with with the experiences of others and have no hard facts to back them up. Edited June 24, 2013 by LosOjos
X-13 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 I think that's what X-13 was getting at Sunnyqueen I was actually talking about collaborative learning. We all work towards the same end goal and share (free) resources, but work on our games individually. (And helping each other out if/when we're stuck.) 1
bondbill2k2 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Other then my first year module on basic none OO java near 5 years ago (A16 ) I havn't touched coding really, reading this discussion is making me want to try out python and even refresh my memory on java
Sunnyknight Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) Haskell isn't C based either. Well, obviously if you know people then listen to them but everything I said was taken straight from their websites. In this day and age where just about everything is OO, it doesn't make sense to learn to code in C. C is almost exclusively reserved for embedded programming nowadays. I have no idea why you would feel the need to make false claims on the Internet it just seems you have a lot of opinions that clash with with the opinions of others and no hard facts to back them up. You sound like my lecturer who thought i couldn't make the car simulation or do Windows System Programming, until i threw both in his face and got a B & A for my work. I don't NEED to say anything false over this. What i know, and what i don't know, i will say. What i know, i will try to expand on. What i don't know, i will ask for help with, or LIVE and let dieeeeee, LIVE and let dieeeeee (song from Shrek comes to mind). Edited June 24, 2013 by Sunnyknight
Fleetwood Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) leave and let dieeeeee, leave and let dieeeeee (song from Shrek comes to mind). Or an awkwardly-accented person singing the classic theme song for the bond film Live and Let Die. "He always did have an over-inflated opinion of himself.." @X-13 : my bad, I read your post wrong. Many apologies Edited June 24, 2013 by Fleetwood 1
LosOjos Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 You sound like my lecturer who thought i couldn't make the car simulation or do Windows System Programming, until i threw both in his face and got a B & A for my work. I don't NEED to say anything false over this. What i know, and what i don't know, i will say. What i know, i will try to expand on. What i don't know, i will ask for help with, or leave and let dieeeeee, leave and let dieeeeee (song from Shrek comes to mind). Have you ever considered that it's because you don't communicate well? For all I know, you could have written CryEngine single handedly and are sat on a yacht somehwere pretending to a school IT tech for giggles. Problem is, all I see is your avatar and the words you type, which when put so aggressively come off as arrogant. "No, don't learn Java, learn C++, it's the only way. You'll never make a game on your own, you need a team. I know because I went to uni!" Why not calm down and try some communication? If you have an opinion, express it. Don't just throw out some spurious claims and then rage at anyone who disagress wth you. PS: It's live and let die 1
X-13 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 reading this discussion is making me want to try out python and even refresh my memory on java One of us! One of us! One of us! TBH python sounds like the proper starting place. I suggest python > java > (one of the Cs) with increasing difficulty/complexity.
Sunnyknight Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 PS: It's live and let die Don't care. Don't care.... lol I know what i meant.
X-13 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 I know what i meant. That's the problem. You know what you mean, but nobody else does. 4
Rawns Posted June 24, 2013 Author Posted June 24, 2013 I was actually talking about collaborative learning. We all work towards the same end goal and share (free) resources, but work on our games individually. (And helping each other out if/when we're stuck.) ^^ This.
X-13 Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 (edited) ^^ This. I think we need an Edugeek Game devs group. Or just do it through steam. Though, I'd say Edugeek. Steam is blocked at work and I can probably pass this off as CPD. Le EDIT: In fact, I HAVE passed this off as CPD. For a while I had codeblocks (I think that's what it was called) installed on my work laptop. Edited June 24, 2013 by X-13
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