The New Mac Pro

[mac_shinobi]

I have had a few Apple products in my time. I had a first gen iPod touch, a G4, a Power Mac and a Macbook Air.

 

The air failed quite spectacularly because it couldn't cool itself sufficiently when running photoshop and a few other bits (Office etc). It quite literally burnt itself out. Apple wouldnt touch it, despite being under warranty, because I didn't give it a sufficient space to cool. I didn't realise a desk with a laptop cooling tray wasn't sufficient, but hey ho!

The G4 is probably still running somewhere, I had it for 4 years and never once failed on me.

The powermac is had a few PSU failures (I think 3 overall), and then a motherboard failure after the 3rd PSU. I gave up on it.

The iPod touch, once upgraded as high as it would go, ran like a turtle through treacle and died shortly after.

 

Older apple products are fantastically long lived, and work well for a long time.

The new products (in my experience) fail quite quickly, and apple themselves dont like dealing with their own failed products and try to shift the blame to you rather than their defective parts or workmanship.

 

As a result, I steer clear where possible.

 

My 2011 mac mini has been rock solid since I had it and got apple care for it and it still runs great, could do with upgrading the hard drive to an SSD though but won't have money for a while so just leaving it as is for now

[synaesthesia]

I remember the e6500's, not machines I'd ever go for again. Shame the quality can vary so much within the same company, the Latitude's of the D830/630 era and older were awesome machines, yet it was funny how the same machine with a different badge on (Inspiron) were less reliable. Probably some cherry picking involved!

 

The majority of failures I had on MB's were heat issue and dry joint as said. Some failures seemed odd, for instance the last batch of g5 (?) pro's were beast machines with some awesome cooling yet still seemed to often have issues usually relating to graphics cards. I was in the middle of it all when the Big Exploding Battery Thing hit Apple and Dell. Managed to scrounge a lot of screens and RAM from otherwise sploded laptops thankfully

[mac_shinobi]

We have the E6400 machines here that are used as loan laptops and other than swapping keyboards on the odd occasion, one hinge and a few cmos batteries as well as a few hard drives due to the age of them, they have been great

[seawolf]

I remember the e6500's, not machines I'd ever go for again. Shame the quality can vary so much within the same company, the Latitude's of the D830/630 era and older were awesome machines, yet it was funny how the same machine with a different badge on (Inspiron) were less reliable. Probably some cherry picking involved!

 

The majority of failures I had on MB's were heat issue and dry joint as said. Some failures seemed odd, for instance the last batch of g5 (?) pro's were beast machines with some awesome cooling yet still seemed to often have issues usually relating to graphics cards. I was in the middle of it all when the Big Exploding Battery Thing hit Apple and Dell. Managed to scrounge a lot of screens and RAM from otherwise sploded laptops thankfully

 

We had plenty of the Dell 820/830 models and they were solid. I think a few teachers still have some floating around at home that they bought from us. The E6500s were pure junk. I used to work for SCI (later Sanmina-SCI) and we used to build alot of the Dell kit before they decided to farm it off to the lowest bidder in China. Foxcon in 2002 did not have good quality control.

 

The G5 Mac laptops did have heat-related problems and that was one of the reasons why the PowerPC got the flick. IBM couldn't keep up with Intel in the power/efficiency race. This is also why Apple started buying up semiconductor companies and designing their own chips for mobile devices. The Intel laptops - have been very, very solid. Only time will tell with the Retina display models, but we haven't seen any issues in the few that are floating around the school.

Edited February 6, 2014 by seawolf

[Gerk]

The G5 Mac laptops did have heat-related problems and that was one of the reasons why the PowerPC got the flick. IBM couldn't keep up with Intel in the power/efficiency race. This is also why Apple started buying up semiconductor companies and designing their own chips for mobile devices. The Intel laptops - have been very, very solid. Only time will tell with the Retina display models, but we haven't seen any issues in the few that are floating around the school.

 

First there was no such thing as a G5 Mac laptop, at least not one that made it to release.

 

Second that's not the reason why Apple started buying up semiconductor companies, they bought them up so that they could manufacture their own ARM based silicon and save themselves a lot of money. It had nothing to do with the whole PowerPC/Intel transition and it had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses so-to-speak, it had everything to do with their bottom line. They already had people designing the processors at that point in time, they just needed to be able to build them without being at the mercy of another company for the costing portion of things.

 

Lastly @seawolf, do you really assume that because something is made in the US it has better quality control??? That's so ridiculous it's not even funny. If so then the brainwashing has been successful. I can tell you first hand that built in US doesn't necessarily mean quality ... take a look at the auto industry! I'll give you that one as you seem to be pretty far away from the US, but as a Canadian and living right next door I can certainly tell you different no matter how many people in the US try to defend that position.

[seawolf]

First there was no such thing as a G5 Mac laptop, at least not one that made it to release.

 

Second that's not the reason why Apple started buying up semiconductor companies, they bought them up so that they could manufacture their own ARM based silicon and save themselves a lot of money. It had nothing to do with the whole PowerPC/Intel transition and it had nothing to do with keeping up with the Joneses so-to-speak, it had everything to do with their bottom line. They already had people designing the processors at that point in time, they just needed to be able to build them without being at the mercy of another company for the costing portion of things.

 

Lastly @seawolf, do you really assume that because something is made in the US it has better quality control??? That's so ridiculous it's not even funny. If so then the brainwashing has been successful. I can tell you first hand that built in US doesn't necessarily mean quality ... take a look at the auto industry! I'll give you that one as you seem to be pretty far away from the US, but as a Canadian and living right next door I can certainly tell you different no matter how many people in the US try to defend that position.

 

Ah, yes you're right about the G5, good catch. My bad, it was past my bed time. G4s I did mean.

 

You must have some inside info on Apple's reasons for designing their own chips? Yes, not being beholden to a single supplier is a good part of their reasoning, but efficiency (less heat, more battery life) along with power (A7 anyone) were certainly big factors as well.

 

Manufacturing in the US doesn't guarantee quality, but when a tech company like Apple manufactures in the US they are doing so to have greater control over the manufacturing process. It's also why Sun assembled their hardware in the USA (parts manufactured elsewhere). You also do realise that BMW, Mercedes, Totyota, Nissan, and Volkswagon all manufacture in the USA as well? Mostly in the union unfriendly south though. The corrupt and heavy handed unionised labour in the north is one of the things that just about killed the American car company.

[rich_tech]

Lovely looking device, very impressive engineering too tbf, but overpriced too much, that being said, I am eyeing up the next rejig of airs/mac minis as that might me warrant buying a mac device finally, as I am loving the imac in work at the moment

[Arthur]

but overpriced too much

Try building a PC with identical (or very similar) components and you'll find that the Mac Pro is actually very reasonably-priced.

 

A pro with serious workstation needs reviews Apple’s 2013 Mac Pro « Ars Technica

 

The Price

While many people, mostly of the troll variety, will be running around the Web screaming "so expensive!" the new Mac Pro is anything but when considering what's in the package. I joked on Twitter that Apple's Mac Pro deal is this: "buy two discounted FirePro W9000 cards and get a workstation for free," and that's not an exaggeration. The AMD FirePro W9000 retails on Newegg for $3400, $600 under MSRP. Apple's FirePro D700 is similar to this card, and the company ships two of them in the machine for $600 more than the D500 that comes stock with the 6-core configuration. It all makes this bottom radio button the easiest one a 3D graphics junkie ever clicked:

 

Because Apple is designing its own machine and card for the GPU, AMD doesn't have to front the cost of manufacturing them. This likely kept the price lower than if Apple paid OEM prices for an existing card. Combine this with the sky-high price of the Xeon E5 chips, and you would be way out of line to call the Mac Pro "expensive."

[mac_shinobi]

Try building a PC with identical (or very similar) components and you'll find that the Mac Pro is actually very reasonably-priced.

 

A pro with serious workstation needs reviews Apple’s 2013 Mac Pro « Ars Technica

 

That's without the PCI-e x16 ssd

[synaesthesia]

It's not a bad price at all - it's actually good *ERK*swoon*zzzzzzzzz* value. Yup, shock horror.

 

For what it is. It's overspecced, over designed and possibly overengineered (TBC) compared to what could have been done to both preserve performance and cost *BUT* the direct comparisons speak for themselves. As I've already said, even as an Apple Hater (as per my blog post, that's a hate of the company, not so much the products before anyone starts) it seems like steps are being made in the right direction. I suspect the majority of the more discerning "pro's" would have something tweaked more to their field of requirement than an off the shelf product but each to their own. Most properly tweakable products (mac pro's upgrade ability notwithstanding) don't come with OSX.

Edited February 7, 2014 by synaesthesia

[abillybob]

At the end of the day it all comes down to preference, I wouldn't buy one, the upgradability isn't great plus you have to be careful as Mac OS doesn't work with all hardware only some and with this price tag it seems silly to buy one of these when you can buy an over powered desktop with future proofing for less than this premium price tag from Apple, I see Apple as a fashion accessory rather than a powerful device for productivity. It is a real neat design though I guarantee like most Apple products it will be based on laptop hardware (correct me if I'm wrong - I haven't done any research!). For a cheaper price with not a great deal difference in performance I'd buy an Alienware laptop, great for upgradability and it's a laptop so can take it anywhere and it runs my personal favorite operating system, Windows. Then I'd just shove a VMWare Mac machine on it if I wanted Mac.... We are a school that consists of 70 Macs and around half of them have gone bump already with hard drives failing or the CPU overheating, the fans just stop working. So I don't think they are the most well built devices, but I suppose if you put hardware into a thick aluminium case with hardly any vents you're asking for trouble. Although it looks pretty

[Arthur]

It is a real neat design though I guarantee like most Apple products it will be based on laptop hardware (correct me if I'm wrong - I haven't done any research!).

Although you can get mobile workstations with Xeon processors and (MXM) Quadro/FirePro graphics, the Mac Pro is definitely not using laptop parts - other than perhaps the PCIe SSD which looks similar to the SSD used in the rMBP.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Arthur

[mac_shinobi]

Although you can get mobile workstations with Xeon processors and (MXM) Quadro/FirePro graphics, the Mac Pro is definitely not using laptop parts - other than perhaps the PCIe SSD which looks similar to the SSD used in the rMBP.

 

I think it was @localzuk ( aka Tony ) that mentioned about with it being a work station and only supporting up to 64gb of RAM, so just wanted to say that it is a shame that it doesn't support more ram !!

[Arthur]

New Mac Pro gives Windows 7 the heave-ho, won't run in Boot Camp « Digital Trends

 

If you were looking forward to dual-booting Windows 7 on the brand new Mac Pro, you’re out of luck. According to allegedly leaked support documents, Apple has dropped Boot Camp support for Windows 7, making Microsoft’s most popular desktop operating system incompatible with Cupertino’s cylindrical powerhouse.

 

The documents reveal that the Mac Pro, which will sport Boot Camp 5, will only support Windows 8/8.1.

[mac_shinobi]

New Mac Pro gives Windows 7 the heave-ho, won't run in Boot Camp « Digital Trends

 

Boot camp 5 with mavericks ? May have to use vmware fusion for win 7?

 

But then may not be as good as it directly using the hardware ie for games / 3D stuff

[synaesthesia]

So can you still install windows 7 on it on it's own? (Idle interest. That way I can find out who I can go and punch for being so stupid in the first place! )

[mac_shinobi]

So can you still install windows 7 on it on it's own? (Idle interest. That way I can find out who I can go and punch for being so stupid in the first place! )

 

I don't have that kind of money for a new mac pro so not an issue lol

[synaesthesia]

Unfortunately i'll have to wait a couple of years for someone to scrap one for me to get my dirty engineering mitts on. I really do want to get one apart and poke it in a manner unfitting an expensive bit of kit

[mac_shinobi]

Unfortunately i'll have to wait a couple of years for someone to scrap one for me to get my dirty engineering mitts on. I really do want to get one apart and poke it in a manner unfitting an expensive bit of kit

 

As in repair it or as in a hammer to destroy it lol

[ess2k]

What an amazing bit of technology! Custom built PC or this??? Hmmmm....

[synaesthesia]

To poke holes in it's design mostly, because it appears shoddy. But you know me well enough by now to know why I like to get my hands on anything possible so I can make a proper judgement of it.

 

Last piece of Apple hardware I was happy with in this respect had a PowerPC processor in it.

[Arthur]

it is a shame that it doesn't support more RAM!

The Mac Pro now supports 128GB RAM (unofficially).

 

Cheaper 128GB RAM kit for 2013 Mac Pro now available « VR-Zone

 

A few weeks back, Transcend launched its 128GB RAM kit for the 2013 Mac Pro. Becoming the first company to do so. The luxury to bump RAM that high comes at a price: Transcend’s kit cost $2,480. With OWC jumping into the ring, customers now have choice. Announced today, OWC’s 128GB RAM kits are compatible with 6-Core, 8-Core and 12-Core models of the new Mac Pro. The company says that these modules are fully tested and qualified to handle the most demanding applications, and are covered by its Lifetime Advance Replacement Warranty.

 

However, there is a limitation that must be kept in mind. Presumably this may be the reason why Apple doesn’t officially let people bump RAM up to 128GB. Due to the limitations of the Intel chipset in the 2013 Mac Pro, these 128GB RAM kits run at 1066MHz, whereas smaller kits can reach speeds as high as 1866MHz. Though OWC brushes speed differences aside claiming that they’re minimal.

 

The OWC MaxRAM 128GB RAM kit, essentially a bundle of 32GB x 4 modules, costs $2,129.99. Customers who opt for OWC’s modules save nearly $350 over Transcend’s kit.

[Arthur]

Sonnet have made a 4U rackmount case for the Mac Pro called the xMac Pro Server.

 

Sonnet’s new rack mount turns the 2013 Mac Pro into a modern-day Xserve « Ars Technica

 

 

[Arthur]

upgradability isn't great

Expandability is fantastic though!

 

[PotNoodleTech]

I thought he was using a PC for a minute then, but then I saw his pony tail