Game of Thrones - S03E09 (Possible Spoilers)

[LeMarchand]

So expect to see books 4 & 5 mushed together for the TV.

 

and as they are both easily big enough to require two seasons each...

 

I'd disagree strongly. There's a lot of chaff in 4 & 5. I got the distinct feeling that GRRM was losing sight of where he was going and (particularly with Book 5) felt he had to publish something. I, for one, could happily do without a certain character spending so much time in Book 5 preoccupied with their love life and definitely without another's extended boat ride!

 

AFAIK the show is (roughly) going to be S4=B3, S5=B4, S6=B5, and as "7 seasons" has been mentioned it could even be tighter than that. (S5=the worthwhile bits of B4/5?)

[AMLinington]

FWIW I don't believe that Syrio Forel is alive. I think he was exactly what he seemed to be - a fencing tutor and I think his death was symbolic as we know that Arya is walking a very unconventional path and I think Syrio's death was her first 'taste' so to speak. I don't think he is a servant of the House of Black and White although we know Jaquen Haggar (Sp?) definitely is and we've already seen him work his 'magic' in the TV series although it bothers me a little bit that his interactions with Arya aren't given more focus as they are key to her story progression.

[sonofsanta]

Books 1-3 had the definite feel of a trilogy. I'm sure I read that 4-6 were meant to be an equivalent trilogy set 5 years after the events of 1-3, but when writing 4 GRRM found he was spending so much time in flashback recounting what had happened that he decided to just write it normally.

 

I suspect the problem is that he wrote too much whilst headed along the first path and couldn't bring himself to throw out all those words, hence we get a lot of treading water. Book 4 in particular gets very repetitive in a way he avoided superbly in Books 1-3 - certainly Cersei's chapters all seem to be repeats of each other, in terms of how they progress the character or the storyline.

 

I'm with you on Syrio @AMLightfoot; I want to know WTH is going on in Oldtown though. That's obviously where JH was headed in the first place. Hopefully we'll get answers in book 6 now Slayer is there.

 

(trying my best to use nicknames to avoid spoilers)

Edited June 7, 2013 by sonofsanta
Slayer, not Killer. D'oh!

[AMLinington]

Books 1-3 had the definite feel of a trilogy. I'm sure I read that 4-6 were meant to be an equivalent trilogy set 5 years after the events of 1-3, but when writing 4 GRRM found he was spending so much time in flashback recounting what had happened that he decided to just write it normally.

 

I suspect the problem is that he wrote too much whilst headed along the first path and couldn't bring himself to throw out all those words, hence we get a lot of treading water. Book 4 in particular gets very repetitive in a way he avoided superbly in Books 1-3 - certainly Cersei's chapters all seem to be repeats of each other, in terms of how they progress the character or the storyline.

 

I'm with you on Syrio @AMLightfoot; I want to know WTH is going on in Oldtown though. That's obviously where JH was headed in the first place. Hopefully we'll get answers in book 6 now Killer is there.

 

(trying my best to use nicknames to avoid spoilers)

 

Cersei is kinda annoying. I like how Jamies character changes as a result of his journey with Brienne of Tarth (all TV friendly). I, too, am interested in what interest THoBaA has in Oldtown. I'd like to see how our little friend gets out of the predicament he's in at the end of DwD.

[Bromcom_John]

I found that, when reading book 5, because of how books 4 and 5 had been written (as two narratives in parralel) and released YEARS apart!! That I had to go back and re-read sections ofbook 4 to remind myself of what had happened.

Also there were massive periods of Deja Vu (obviously) and confusing parts where I was like..

"Hang on? Isn't so and so in this location now not here?" all of which was because the events in the two books covered the same narrative span.

 

So if they do manage to do books 4 and 5 as just two seasons... it's going to have to be s4 - b4/5 (first halves), s5 -b4/5 (second halves). Although I do find it a bit tough to think of what would be the theoretical season 4 "finale" in that structure....Season 5 finales are obvious and aplenty though

[sonofsanta]

Actually watched the episode on Friday night - was a bag of nerves through the whole thing because I knew what was coming, they ratcheted the tension up for readers from the first scene didn't they? I think they lost something from the books by not having Cat go on and on about the laws of hospitality, as that's what makes it such a shock in the books, but obviously it was still enough of a shock to the internet so maybe they really didn't need it.

 

That got messy, though, more so than I expected. It was smaller scale than I imagined it - you didn't see the whole Stark army getting slaughtered whilst drunkenly celebrating - but they really ratcheted the gore up.

 

Wondering if they'll follow the Stoneheart plotline... (do NOT Google if you don't know, spoilers!)

[LeMarchand]

Wondering if they'll follow the Stoneheart plotline... (do NOT Google if you don't know, spoilers!)

 

I've always wondered if the actor originally cast as the main character in that plotline read ahead and thought "maybe I'll drop out now". (Hope that's vague enough - couldn't work out how to do spoiler tags).

[AMLinington]

 

Wondering if they'll follow the Stoneheart plotline... (do NOT Google if you don't know, spoilers!)

 

I would hope so as it is a fairly key development in the Brienne/Jamie storylines.

 

I've always wondered if the actor originally cast as the main character in that plotline read ahead and thought "maybe I'll drop out now". (Hope that's vague enough - couldn't work out how to do spoiler tags).

 

I don't understand, which actor are you referring to? Stoneheart themselves?

 

Also, I believe the Spoiler tags are something custom-installed on some BB boards. The syntax used to be [ SPOILER ] [/ SPOILER ] without the spaces obviously.

 

Let's see:

Monsieur, with zeeze hidden plot points you are really spoiling us!

 

 

Edit: Guess not.

[Rawns]

Also, I believe the Spoiler tags are something custom-installed on some BB boards. The syntax used to be [ SPOILER ] [/ SPOILER ] without the spaces obviously.

 

Let's see:

Monsieur, with zeeze hidden plot points you are really spoiling us!

 

 

Edit: Guess not.

 

Good effort.

[LeMarchand]

I don't understand, which actor are you referring to? Stoneheart themselves?

 

Yes - in the (unbroadcast) pilot version LS was played by a different actor.

 

I've changed the font colour, which works in my colour scheme, but apologies if not in everyone's. Made the size as small as I could, too.

 

...which doesn't work in "ISpy". Corrected, but many apologies if anyone was caught out.

Edited June 10, 2013 by LeMarchand

[sonofsanta]

The problem with formatting to hide spoilers is that formatting doesn't apply in the emails sent out when a subscribed thread is updated. You could possibly avoid this by using

 

SPOILERS

|

[lots of blank lines]

|

[actual spoiler]

 

but that would make the thread painful to read.

 

Better to stick to the cryptic clues, I think

 

EDIT: though of course the problem with cryptic clues is that they can be confusing - at first, I thought @LeMarchand was referring to the actress playing Lyanna Stark

 

DOUBLE EDIT: another option for spoilers is to avoid them at first, then edit the post to add them in and hide them with formatting - because the edit wouldn't get emailed out...

Edited June 10, 2013 by sonofsanta

[AMLinington]

The problem with formatting to hide spoilers is that formatting doesn't apply in the emails sent out when a subscribed thread is updated. You could possibly avoid this by using

 

SPOILERS

|

[lots of blank lines]

|

[actual spoiler]

 

but that would make the thread painful to read.

 

Better to stick to the cryptic clues, I think

 

EDIT: though of course the problem with cryptic clues is that they can be confusing - at first, I thought @LeMarchand was referring to the actress playing Lyanna Stark

 

DOUBLE EDIT: another option for spoilers is to avoid them at first, then edit the post to add them in and hide them with formatting - because the edit wouldn't get emailed out...

 

I think there is some confusion here - Stoneheart is not Lyanna Stark... Stoneheart arises as a result of both the Brotherhood without Banners and the Red Wedding, although I cannot say more without giving too much away but the convergence of the BWB and Red Wedding plotlines in the Stoneheart plotline is pivotal to the plotlines of Jamie and Brienne of Tarth so it can hardly be swept under the carpet. Although arguably the actor in the Stoneheart plotline COULD be played by someone different if the costuming was done right.

[LeMarchand]

I think we need a "GoT - don't enter until you are up to date with the books" topic to save confusion!

 

There's still the "ISpy" problem, though...

[tmcd35]

Is Ep09 the end of S03? I've been waiting till they're all shown so I can watch them back to back. Though I have read all the books so I know what's coming

[AMLinington]

Is Ep09 the end of S03? I've been waiting till they're all shown so I can watch them back to back. Though I have read all the books so I know what's coming

 

I actually think that I am enjoying GoT MORE having read the books and knowing the intricacies than I would have if I hadn't - I think TV dramatizations of complex book series like GoT can be difficult to follow and indeed there are a few things I would have been left scratching my head about if I didn't already know the score.

[Rawns]

Is Ep09 the end of S03? I've been waiting till they're all shown so I can watch them back to back. Though I have read all the books so I know what's coming

 

 

One more to go, 10 eps per season. As soon as Igetin tonight, I'm watching it. God knows how they can top the last episode!

 

Also, cracking idea @LeMarchand!

[sonofsanta]

I think there is some confusion here - Stoneheart is not Lyanna Stark... Stoneheart arises as a result of both the Brotherhood without Banners and the Red Wedding, although I cannot say more without giving too much away but the convergence of the BWB and Red Wedding plotlines in the Stoneheart plotline is pivotal to the plotlines of Jamie and Brienne of Tarth so it can hardly be swept under the carpet. Although arguably the actor in the Stoneheart plotline COULD be played by someone different if the costuming was done right.

 

Oh I know who Stoneheart is - just @LeMarchand's use of "LS" to refer to a character momentarily threw me, I'm used to thinking of LS as Lyanna (probably from too much L+R=J {ALSO DO NOT GOOGLE THIS})

 

A thread for those up to speed on books sounds an excellent idea to me also.

[Rawns]

Another question, what's happened to Rob's army? While the wedding was taking a turn for the worst, you saw some of his men being killed off but I imagine his whole army is still camped out somewhere? Surely they will hear of this and go nuts? Or is the idea that the vast majority of his troops were killed while celebrating effectively eradicating his army completely?

[sonofsanta]

Or is the idea that the vast majority of his troops were killed while celebrating effectively eradicating his army completely?

 

This.

 

From the Song of Ice and Fire Wikia (don't look it up yourself, because - of course - spoilers):

There is a feast and songs are sung including "Iron Lances" and "The Queen Took Off Her Sandal, the King Took Off His Crown".[1] The main food is pink lamb.

 

By using sellswords and knights at the feast disguised as musicians, and getting Robb's men too drunk to fight, Lord Walder Frey is able to coordinate a massacre with little loss to his own men. The two twin castles and the outlying camps are signaled when the band begins playing the "The Rains of Castamere" after the start of the bedding between Edmure and Roslin. Few of the northmen have a chance to react, and most are butchered on the spot.

 

The Frey and Bolton men turn on the Stark soldiers. Specially-rigged feast tents collapse and are set aflame during the slaughter. In the main hall, many of Robb's personal guard are killed by Freys, including Smalljon Umber, Dacey Mormont, and Ser Wendel Manderly, as well as his mother Catelyn. Roose Bolton personally kills Robb, who was previously shot by arrows, with a thrust to the heart.[1]

 

Though no definitive count is known, most of the northmen are killed while House Frey loses only approximately fifty men in the camps

 

The episode didn't really get across the scale of the massacre, though it showed some of the slaughter of the army, but it made up for it with sheer gore and brutality. I have to wonder how many TV-only types saw the very last throat-slit coming

[Rawns]

This.

 

From the Song of Ice and Fire Wikia (don't look it up yourself, because - of course - spoilers):

 

 

The episode didn't really get across the scale of the massacre, though it showed some of the slaughter of the army, but it made up for it with sheer gore and brutality. I have to wonder how many TV-only types saw the very last throat-slit coming

 

Thought as much however like you say, it was not shown very well. At first I though it was a select group of bodyguards and officer types there enjoying the celebrations, but when they all started dyeing, I thought that it must be his entire army there.

 

You mean Catelyn's death scene? Once Rob was killed, I though she was going to die, then when she killed the girl and just stood there for what seemed like an age, I thought she was going to survive and be left forever in torment (maybe become mad or something), but then the guy with the sword just popped in scene and did the deed. That was also a bit of a shocker out of right field!

 

I also wonder what has happened to Edmure and Roslin. Were they spared,or put to death in their wedding bed?

[AMLinington]

Thought as much however like you say, it was not shown very well. At first I though it was a select group of bodyguards and officer types there enjoying the celebrations, but when they all started dyeing, I thought that it must be his entire army there.

 

You mean Catelyn's death scene? Once Rob was killed, I though she was going to die, then when she killed the girl and just stood there for what seemed like an age, I thought she was going to survive and be left forever in torment (maybe become mad or something), but then the guy with the sword just popped in scene and did the deed. That was also a bit of a shocker out of right field!

 

I also wonder what has happened to Edmure and Roslin. Were they spared,or put to death in their wedding bed?

 

Why would you put to death a valuable hostage - Edmure is, after all, Lord of Riverrun...

[Rawns]

Just watched Ep 10! A more low key ep than 9 with a not so huge ending either, but still good! Now to have withdrawal symptoms until Season 4!

[rich_tech]

it is strange how its ended on a fairly "quiet" point of the books with the season end, the red wedding is a hell of a lot to get through though, its probably one of the nastiest points of all the books, I have to say though, it is impressive though the closeness to the books that HBO have kept it, only a few minor off canon moments in the series so far.

[Rawns]

it is strange how its ended on a fairly "quiet" point of the books with the season end, the red wedding is a hell of a lot to get through though, its probably one of the nastiest points of all the books, I have to say though, it is impressive though the closeness to the books that HBO have kept it, only a few minor off canon moments in the series so far.

 

I agree, some shows tend to veer right off course or add loads of extra stuff (Season 1 of the Walking Dead is a prime example), but I'm about a 3rd through book 1 and it seems to be almost like for like. In a way, it's a tiny bit annoying and think I could jump to the book that Season 4 will start on!Don;t worry though, I'm not going to!!!

 

At least it clarified the situation with Robb's "army".

 

Also really interested to see Arya and The Hound's relationship develop. Hopefully she seeks out that assassin dude with the coin!:

[sonofsanta]

Right, a quiet Monday afternoon (mercy be!) has allowed me the chance to start that threatened spoiler-heavy thread on ASOIAF. Come join in if you're all read up (if you're not, though, stay away for the love of all the gods old and new!)