Adding an AP to the network? simples?

[Sir]

This is my first post so please be gentle re. my lack of knowledge in this area. As i am jack of all e-learning trades in my large primary school, I am master of none.... I 'manage' the network after a fasion but would love some place to go for for help. We have a 2 switch panels (I assume it is a switch; lots of cat5 cables coming out?) feeding all of the network points in the main school building and from one of these (a catalyst 3500 and 2900). these are connected with a big yellow networky looking cable- is this cat 5 also?- not sure) just below this connection is another connector linking this catalyst 2900 box to an AMP netconnect panel? with thin grey wires. I am assuming that this has something to do with a fibre link to a building on the other side of the school grounds (the old coachhouse). this also has a switch-y type affair in which feed all of the network points in there.... around 20 or so. From there, there is another wired link to our building which is a demountable and houses all 65 of out early years children and associated staff. In this demountable, there is another paned supplying around 12 network points. Back in the main building, we have 5 wireless access points which, apparently are very strong as we have thick victorian inner walls. My question is that I need help working out how to make the two early years classroon wireless, what to buy and how to connect it. I manage the server; we have just one running 2003r2. I have had people in passing say, 'yeah, just get a home router and plug it into a port on your switch and your away' and comments like 'you need a cisco engineer to configure that sort of thing!' Both of these comments sound equally ridiculous to me. Could anyone confirm my suspicions that it is a fairy sinple job and then point me in the right direction of someone willing to guide me through it? We will only be connecting about 10 ipads to this new AP so I wont need anything too mega powerful i should think..... may be wrong........... also I have attached pics of my setup.......... has someone got time to clear up what is what exactly? Apologies if this is not the place for help for me as you all sound pretty good at what you do.... thanks for looking!

[plexer]

If it's a cisco managed wireless network then yes you could just plug in a home wireless access point but it wouldn't be recommended, getting the correct cisco access point in there and set up may well need some configuration work.

 

Who installed the wireless in the first place?

 

Ben

[Sir]

Stoneleigh in staffs/shropshire. Some 5 or 6 years ago. Will i really need to pay someone to do a relatively..... simple? job? Thanks Ben

[plexer]

Without knowing you setup it may not be "simple" that's what I'm trying to say.

 

Ben

[nelsons]

If you need Cisco advice I can help, PM me and I can advise on technical solutions / configurations.

[SHimmer45]

worked with some cisco points a few years ago and these could be configured stand alone via their web interface i believe that there are some tools on cisco's site to aid in setup and config, which might be useful if you are intergrating them with a cisco switch which manages the points.

 

at a base level in theory an access point should be able to plug into any switch and be used by clients

 

the small box on top of the power bar im assuming is a power over ethernet injector?

 

if your unsure of what the kit in the cab is doing it is going to make the job harder

[Sir]

Yes there are 5 POE injectors in my cabinet. Will i simply need to get another one? same make or any better/ cheaper ones? ...........and then plug it into the switch in the classroom over the other side of my site? Im assuming i will need to set up a static ip etc.. anyone with a few instructions would be good; just of essential things i need to know/ do before doing the job and getting whatever anyone advises me to get to do the job....

Ben.... without knowing what you need to know about my network, i can't continue to ask you what is or isn't simple i suppose?

I really could do with knowing what to buy to service a 20 sq/m area supplying wireless to around 10 machines..... and also how to set it up.... i have power, network points and a switch..........

[catch21]

What budget do you have for the AP?

 

It would be helpful to sketch a network diagram as you see it, and put make and model of boxes on the sketch as you can.

TBH you probably don't even need to configure a static IP. Your 2003 server should give out an IP address for the box an off you go.

 

Your network sounds like ours was about 6 years ago. Pretty much all that's the same with us today is the cabling.

[Sir]

Thanks Catch21. I do believe I will draw it out; good plan. Re. the budget for the AP... 100 ish any good?

[SHimmer45]

i would attempt to another AP which is the same make and model to match the existing AP's if possible it makes it easier to manage them.

[Sir]

Thanks for that... I'll find out what they are... Any tips for suppliers of Cisco ap's?

[lperrin]

Adding an AP to the network? simples?

If this task was as simple as you suspect then why are you on this forum asking people to advise you on how to do it?

And God help the Primary School that put you in charge of IT Support!

[plexer]

Adding an AP to the network? simples?

If this task was as simple as you suspect then why are you on this forum asking people to advise you on how to do it?

And God help the Primary School that put you in charge of IT Support!

 

That's a bit harsh he's already given his background on the matter and I agree that it's not a simple job.

 

Ben

[Domino]

Adding an AP to the network? simples?

If this task was as simple as you suspect then why are you on this forum asking people to advise you on how to do it?

And God help the Primary School that put you in charge of IT Support!

 

The question marks would imply it's a question...not a statement.

 

I'd also ask, do you have access to the management console for the Cisco kit? And the switches? I ask because there may be a VLAN setup for the wireless traffic; If so,you'd need to ensure any additional APs have access to the same VLAN to be able to communicate with the controller, etc.

[Sir]

Thanks for your constructive comment. Is this your first contribution to this forum? I know that it is mine but at least I feel that my writings are in the spirit of the site, unlike yours. Why write at all if you can't be nice? As a humble sort of guy with huge respect for most of the guys and girls here with such great technical knowledge, I did actually underplay my abilities somewhat. Saying that, I did outline that my job is mainly helping with teacher training and curriculum development, yet I manage to get by figuring out most things.... Hopefully with the help of Some peeps here. in answer to... Erm.. I can't see who from this screen... I do have access to the switch console and I could check to see if they are on vlan if you tell me how.... thanks (nearly) all of you for your valuable time....

[MikeGilbert]

If you're not actually using the Cisco management console, and need to connect a couple more rooms, there's probably little benefit in buying more Cisco APs. However, it's definitely worth buying "enterprise" grade devices, which will be easier to setup and manage. You don't need the additional rod antennae that the photo shows - not sure why those were installed in the first place, to be honest. To understand how the school is being covered currently, get WiFiFoFum and Fing on your smartphone and have a play. Personally, I'd recommend you get someone in to do it. That way, you have (a) less stress now and (b) someone to take responsibility.

[Sir]

Thanks Mike. I'll try what you suggested. I was told that because my school has thick Victorian internal walls that the antennae boosters were necessary but considering I can access the network from fifty foot all around the school then you may be right and these are overkill! Thanks again.

[Sir]

I do have to get two buildings which are out of range though on wireless which also have 2, 24 port switches in them...

[MikeGilbert]

No worries. Wireless needs a bit of counterintuitive thinking, sometimes. For instance, the benefit of being able to connect to an AP from a long way off is somewhat reduced by the throttling of the available bandwidth to that delivered to the most distant connecting device. The good ol' Inverse Square Law applies. An analogy I have found useful is to think of the APs as light sources, although the shadows are not going to be caused by the same things as for visible light - a fish tank and glass with embedded mesh are both pretty well opaque to wireless transmission, normal stud walls transparent (although some plasterboard has a metal sheet on the inside to improve insulation, which also works to create a Faraday cage...). Turning down the transmission strength can be a benefit, ensuring distant devices can't connect and APs don't interfere with each other (adjacent APs on the same channel will set up interference patterns in the signal, and knacker the user experience).

Worst antenna installation I saw was where someone had put an AP in a school hall, and mounted one of those rods high up in the pitch of the roof... Also had an issue with a ceiling-mount antenna, looked really nice in the middle of the classroom, but created a doughnut-shaped profile, with bad coverage in the middle of the room.

[MikeGilbert]

I do have to get two buildings which are out of range though on wireless which also have 2, 24 port switches in them...

Not a problem. If they're on the wired network, just add APs. Not wishing to teach my grandmother to suck eggs, nor to be patronising, but the Access Point does exactly what it says on the tin - creates a point of access to the network for wireless devices. Think of it being a network socket, basically. Which is why it needs security, of course. Insecure wireless is a datapoint in the street for any passing hacker to use to trash your network.

[paulfinlay]

Just for your information. Those Cisco APs are dual band (they provide support for both 802.11b/g and 802.11a) but because only one antenna has been installed you will only get coverage on the 2.4Ghz band, you are also loosing out on the benefits of antenna diversity (the AP is meant to have two antennas per band to provide better error correction and therefore throughput).

 

With the likely wireless utilisation in a primary school these things probably don't really matter, but it's a bit of a waste of some very expensive enterprise grade access points.

[Sir]

Okay thanks again. This is helpful.I never really had much to do with wireless as you can tell.i'm away for a bit now so will pester more next week. Thanks for your patience!

[MikeGilbert]

Just for your information. Those Cisco APs are dual band (they provide support for both 802.11b/g and 802.11a) but because only one antenna has been installed you will only get coverage on the 2.4Ghz band, you are also loosing out on the benefits of antenna diversity (the AP is meant to have two antennas per band to provide better error correction and therefore throughput).

 

With the likely wireless utilisation in a primary school these things probably don't really matter, but it's a bit of a waste of some very expensive enterprise grade access points.

Exactly. Mind you, the majority of devices are likely to be 11g anyway, so it's not too critical. New APs will be 11n, which will improve data throughput for newer client devices.

Edited May 29, 2013 by MikeGilbert
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