soveryapt Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 We have a couple of portable buildings on site that were installed 18months / 2 years ago, and they're having the roof replaced on them at the moment. The amusing thing that they're using power saws for some of the job (I mean that makes sense) but it's just turned lunch time, so the pupils are out playing, and they keep sawing and the screams of them playing coincide with the sawing noises, so it actually sounds like they're busy sawing through some of the pupils .. Just made me chuckle, so thought I'd share! lol .. Andy T P.S. At least I think they're not sawing up the kids, I mean teachers are out there with them .. I hope .. lol ..
Garacesh Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 I mean teachers are out there with them .. I hope .. lol .. The teachers were the first to go. The kids ganged up on them and sawed them in half, before turning on each other. The workmen, unfortunately, fled the scene in a bout of cowardice, rather than hero-up and face an army of power-saw weilding kids. ...can't say I blame them. 1
adhutton Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 What makes me laugh about building works is that every time something is built/moved/upgraded in the school they seem to forget about the IT requirements and then when we get involved (often quite late in the planning process) they seem shocked by the list of IT requirements which arise and subsequently cost money! Andrew
soveryapt Posted March 28, 2013 Author Posted March 28, 2013 The teachers were the first to go. The kids ganged up on them and sawed them in half, before turning on each other. The workmen, unfortunately, fled the scene in a bout of cowardice, rather than hero-up and face an army of power-saw weilding kids. ...can't say I blame them. I did wonder where they'd all gone .. they just told me there was an end of term assembly, but it's awful quiet around here now! lol ..
localzuk Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 What makes me laugh about building works is that every time something is built/moved/upgraded in the school they seem to forget about the IT requirements and then when we get involved (often quite late in the planning process) they seem shocked by the list of IT requirements which arise and subsequently cost money! Andrew Yup! And you explain that if they had talked to you earlier, you probably could have done it differently, with it being better looking and costing less...
soveryapt Posted March 28, 2013 Author Posted March 28, 2013 What makes me laugh about building works is that every time something is built/moved/upgraded in the school they seem to forget about the IT requirements and then when we get involved (often quite late in the planning process) they seem shocked by the list of IT requirements which arise and subsequently cost money! Andrew Yup! And you explain that if they had talked to you earlier, you probably could have done it differently, with it being better looking and costing less... Indeed! Isn't is always the case .. I'm struggling now trying to get a RADIUS server to function that they set up for me (thanks guys) on the oldest server in the bunch, which is now being retired and just not playing ball at all .. I mean, I would have gone for a different Wireless setup anyway other than the Netgear they have, but there we go, like you say, they like to over spec things .. and then get specifics wrong even when you do get chance to spec them! lol ..
plexer Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 Reminds of a conversation yesterday with one of our senior teaches who was talking to some people about the new UTC which isn't on our site anyway. Him: what cabling do we use in school? Me: Cat5e, why? Him: These are the guys who are specifying the trunking for the university technical college and they were saying they would put cat6 in it. Me: hmmm wouldn't the IT people in charge normally specify the infrastructure and then they could specify containment to suit? Lol
jmak Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 I'm having a fight getting data points in our new rooms - just an internal reconfig of existing space to put in enough loos to meet building regs recommendations, not a fancy rebuild. Anyhooo... I was asked how many data points phone points and power points I wanted in the new rooms and where they should go. The contractor just can't understand what I'm on about when I say "thank you for the power points, they're great and have working electricity and everything. About those data points, they're just blanking plates on the wall with empty boxes behind. In what sense is that a data point?" I don't want them to connect them to my switch, but RJ45 sockets with structured cabling back to the patch panel would be good. And I know that the average bricky wouldn't know how to do that, but you employed a sparky to do the electrics and a plumber to do the plumbing. Now go and find a professional to install a few metres of structured cabling and some wall sockets. The patch panel is in the room next door and there were data points in the old rooms, so presumably there's still cable in the ceiling void somewhere. /rant
plexer Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 You're letting a spark run structured cabling? Ben
jmak Posted March 28, 2013 Posted March 28, 2013 You're letting a spark run structured cabling? Ben No no no My point was they can get a spark to do the electrics, so they can get a suitably qualified person to run cables. They've tried to tell me it's not their job. They offered me data points and electric points. I can plug a toaster into the electric and it works. I can't plug anything into the data points as it's just a blanking plate with nowt behind it!
truebluesteve Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 (edited) You're letting a spark run structured cabling? Ben What's wrong with sparks running structured cabling - it's not rocket science and provided proper containment is in place there shouldn't be any issues. I'm a sparks by trade and have run plenty of cabling, although not any more as I'm too busy. Most proper sparks do a 3 year apprenticeship and running cables properly is part of that. A lot of the specialist data cabling companies use ex sparkies too! The only thing that I would want them to do is actually make off the cable ends *edit - sparkies not sparkles! Edited March 29, 2013 by truebluesteve
plexer Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 @truebluesteve ok from your training no google whats the maximum bend radius and pulling tension for cat5e? Cat6? Ben
truebluesteve Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Well I don't know about a maximum but I was told the minimum bend radius is 4 x the diameter of the cable, so that would be around an inch. I just sent a text to a sparks mate of mine and asked him the same question and I got the same answer! As for pulling strain -it depends on the manufacturer as I've seen some say 25lbs and others 15lbs but I usually check the leaflets that come with the boxes. My point was that you shouldn't assume that a sparks wouldn't know this stuff. The installation requirements for cat5 are far less stringent than SWA, MICC (pyro), Firetuff and Fibre cable. I should say I learnt my Cat5 stuff only a few years ago as I did my apprentice back in erm...1982 and there wasn't much in the way of it then :-)
localzuk Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Saying sparkies shouldn't install structured cabling comes from the fact that the majority are not trained for it. I've seen such installations and it was installed in the same containment as power leads, the ends were stripped far too far and the cable untwisted too much before being terminated etc... So, it is just a case of 'don't let untrained people install structured cabling', which happens to equate to electricians in the majority of cases.
plexer Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Fair do's I've seen seen some sparks that don't know that and just yank cabling through but also if I've got to have data guys terminate they should be do the installation too. Ben
truebluesteve Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Saying sparkies shouldn't install structured cabling comes from the fact that the majority are not trained for it. I've seen such installations and it was installed in the same containment as power leads, the ends were stripped far too far and the cable untwisted too much before being terminated etc... So, it is just a case of 'don't let untrained people install structured cabling', which happens to equate to electricians in the majority of cases. Is this a fact or an assertion? I agree totally that untrained people shouldn't install structured cabling however many electrical contractors do have sparks that are trained to install and it forms part of their apprenticeships these days. If a contractor installs it and they are NICEIC registered then the installing has to conform to the same standards as other cabling and can be inspected. This doesn't apply to specialist data installation companies who have no such regulation and who can set themselves up overnight. We have an electrical contractor who is installing cat5 as the school is being refurbished and they have sparks who punches down the cable at both ends and his work is excellent. As I said data cabling isn't rocket science and bad practice occurs in every industry, but that doesn't mean everyone is the same.
Kingstech Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Is this a fact or an assertion? I agree totally that untrained people shouldn't install structured cabling however many electrical contractors do have sparks that are trained to install and it forms part of their apprenticeships these days. If a contractor installs it and they are NICEIC registered then the installing has to conform to the same standards as other cabling and can be inspected. This doesn't apply to specialist data installation companies who have no such regulation and who can set themselves up overnight. We have an electrical contractor who is installing cat5 as the school is being refurbished and they have sparks who punches down the cable at both ends and his work is excellent. As I said data cabling isn't rocket science and bad practice occurs in every industry, but that doesn't mean everyone is the same. I've not got any qualifications for installing data cables but I install new cables and relocate data cables for the college I work at. Never had any problems.
truebluesteve Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 I've not got any qualifications for installing data cables but I install new cables and relocate data cables for the college I work at. Never had any problems. I don't think you need qualifications as such, just have been shown how to do it by someone who knows. It's all fairly common sense stuff - keep it away from power cables, don't stretch it like a guitar string and so on. If you've had no problems then you're probably doing it right!
plexer Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 I know electricians invest in the equipment required to test their installations and I hope they have the required test equipment for the structured cabling? Ben
SYNACK Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 I don't think you need qualifications as such, just have been shown how to do it by someone who knows. It's all fairly common sense stuff - keep it away from power cables, don't stretch it like a guitar string and so on. If you've had no problems then you're probably doing it right! I have seen and have had to clean up soooo many 'installation' jobs from electricians it is insane, miswires, bare crimps in puddles under buildings, wires stripped and untwisted 15cm before the punchdown, cat6 terminated into cat5 points and mislabled, cables hanging out of walls unterminated. Eeeep, you may be the exception but all the horror shows of cabling I have encountered have been perpetrated by electricians. We had to rewire a whole block because of such standards, even a stable link was a stretch.
truebluesteve Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 I have seen and have had to clean up soooo many 'installation' jobs from electricians it is insane, miswires, bare crimps in puddles under buildings, wires stripped and untwisted 15cm before the punchdown, cat6 terminated into cat5 points and mislabled, cables hanging out of walls unterminated. Eeeep, you may be the exception but all the horror shows of cabling I have encountered have been perpetrated by electricians. We had to rewire a whole block because of such standards, even a stable link was a stretch. Well I don't think I'm the exception but I would suggest that the installations that you have encountered maybe indicative of all the work that those companies do - not just cat5 and also of them not being managed properly. They should all produce test records if they are terminating and not just running cable and be able to produce calibration certs for his test equipment Anyway this could run and run so I'm gonna retire from this now :-) Just don't be too hard on your sparky - he might know more than you think!
Kingstech Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 Well I don't think I'm the exception but I would suggest that the installations that you have encountered maybe indicative of all the work that those companies do - not just cat5 and also of them not being managed properly. They should all produce test records if they are terminating and not just running cable and be able to produce calibration certs for his test equipment Anyway this could run and run so I'm gonna retire from this now :-) Just don't be too hard on your sparky - he might know more than you think! Do the network testers that produce the certificates need to be calibrated? I know that PAT testers and electrical testers need to be calibrated because I send the ones I've got off every year but didn't know about network testers.
Kingstech Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 @Kingstech yes they do. Ben @plexer thanks for that. I will look into getting our fluke recalibrate.
truebluesteve Posted March 29, 2013 Posted March 29, 2013 @plexer thanks for that. I will look into getting our fluke recalibrate. Well you don't have to if you're using them internally, it really only applies to companies that need to prove their kit is accurate for certification purposes. For internal work you can stick a label on it that says "For indication only". Getting flukes calibrated can be very expensive so I'd only do it every 3 years for my own kit. 1
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