MIS changeover

[TechMonkey]

I'm still waiting for the Pachyderm to step up and take responsibility for its actions.

[GREED]

Didn't I read Aspen uses a proper setup where you have a dedicated reporting database that is optimized for reporting or what that something else?

 

We have a dedicated and industry standard reporting application that utilises all the framework and layout tools and allows you to create the most complex reports, including calculations, extrapolations, colours etc. Sort of professional reports any industry uses. We usually have a dedicated server for reporting (for larger customers) which will contain an optimised database for reporting, although this merely is used for the processing of the data from the core database. Think that answers your question Matt!

[GREED]

It'd be great if, instead of outputting CSV, we could build a report in the interface of a MIS and have it generate a SQL query. Then that query could be put into a third party app or simple database to extract the data needed.

@CAM

 

You can! Sort of! The report definition utilises a SQL query to return or output the information usully to a report. Although I don't think this is usually displayed (i need to check on that!) it is there. So you would be able to do this.

 

The issue comes back to security, as such a query could return information to a user bypassing Aspen security roles so giving information they potentially should not have access too. So, yes you can, but you would need to think about this carefully before implementing. So putting into a third party app is great, but if you wanted to display the returned results on a intranet page (as I was asked yesterday) then you would need to consider the audience.

 

EDIT: I should say before the security police start having a moan: You still need to get access to the server and the database before you get this far, so no, there is not a big security hole to worry people or for competitors to exploit! We do this often with larger customers with no issues at all!

Edited April 25, 2013 by GREED

[KK20]

Just to clear a few things up just so you have an idea of why I have discounted so many other MIS. I didnt want to go into so much detail initially but it seems people are getting the wrong idea on why my options look polarised, im not just saying "no" because Im not interested in certain MIS - I simply believe they wont be suitable. I wasnt clear in my original brief, we have no intention of moving our core existing working intranet functions into another MIS - that is academic reporting, SEN, pastoral tracking (These three facilities are highly customised to our reporting system and to how our teachers "work"). Our change of MIS is stimulated mainly due to the unreliability of E1 (being outside our control "in the cloud" and the lack of our ability to drag information from it. Since then I narrowed the search down to the ones I was asking peoples opinions on - engage, isams and schoolbase as I believed these were either modular or cheap enough for the core functions with the option of getting the data we require simply.

 

In order to answer questions as to "why":

 

I do currently script reports in order to grab certain information from E1 (only certain bits can be pulled directly via PI, for instance exam data and timetable cannot be pulled effectively via PI). This has led to a number of issues; how often do you poll for changes? Does someone need to do it manually? Does the system have a timeout? Do you need to create an automated browser service to "click" events for you? Our .NET service that operates our E1 import facility is cumbersome, it entails taking data from a report, saving it to a directory, the service examines the file, imports to our SQL database. If E1 change anything in the layouts of reporting then the intermediate layer needs to be changed (this has happened -albeit once- in the past when papertypes were changed - layouts altered which mean the exported file changed subtly). Scheduled reports are only as good as the time they are run. Multiple changes during the day especially around options times etc. Direct SQL access (or any kind of database access such as the time we had a read only DSN to the OMNIS database of Phoenix Gold) simply means a join therefore live data. I'm no stranger to schema mapping, it took me 2 weeks to map out phoenix gold (all the bits we needed at least I dont pretend to have mapped it all!) - to anyone else who looked at gold then OMNIS.FPUPILS alone was an exercise in why that database was designed by muppets! Our moodle also uses SETS to automatically enrol pupils into pages and also create "groups" within moodle so that assignments can be matched to sets. This makes sure the markbooks use "moodle groups" that match "SET groups" from the MIS.

 

We have an exam seating planner that works and does everything we need (tables, outside candidates, room overspill, spare machines for scribes and word processors, invgilators checklist, time table for extra time - moves to extremeties of room etc). We have a parents evening scheduler that does everything we need (clashes, siblings, lates, "go home at", "only arrive at" times) . All these systems require data. Ideally an SQL join would sort this out. In a secondary sense I could script reports and import to our SQL database just as I have with E1. Given a choice I would not do this, hence my requirement for database access on demand.

 

I have given one example previously as to why (I estimate) Aspen solution wouldnt suit our academic report. In our academic reports a form tutor report entry looks different to a subject report entry. The house master also has a different layout. EYFS, preparatory and lower school also have different looking reports. Each report is tailored to show (and pre format) required information. I imagine your EYFS and ours are identical as they are statutory fields and radio buttons. Our preparatory give different options for different subjects some have effort target and attainment some do not. Some have information automatically copied in. One example, if a person has an identified SEN weakness in english then this data is added automatically to the report and a flag is set next to the person with JUST the english requirements - not the WHOLE specific learning difficulties (although the whole is viewable by clicking should a teach wish to). This cuts down on clutter enormously. Attendance is calculated and colour coded, we dont use raw numbers. Effort ranking is colour coded depending on previous reports averages in the particular "group" (i.e. prep, lower, middle, 6th etc). Lower school reports do included exam results but only as a comment. Middle (GCSE) and 6th give results and colour coded differences between predicted (from our MIDYIS or ALICE data) as a trend etc. I could go on but dont feel I need to to be honest - i havent scratched the surface on our learning support referral system or pastoral system. Suffice to say I have yet to find an MIS that will do all of the above in a simple manner - im sure they could do most but not all. Our parents are used to getting a page of A4 on each subject with general class comment, data on progress and individual comment based on the data (even the peripatetic reports are fleshed out!). From a teachers point of view all the data is displayed on the report page without the need move elsewhere and really only involves them putting a class comment and a single comment (the rest will be inserted automatically - although it CAN be manually editted if required for exceptions) - plus they are only shown what they need to (although this can be overridden if they want more data, say if they are a house master wanting an overall feel. (excel sheets are also generated automatically for the above and sent to head of departments with more number crunching value added information etc). I am guessing (as is the case of all MIS ive seen so far) that I will be able to get the look and feel of our report and easy tailored data entry but the automated text insertion from specific parts will not work (i.e. english SEN only for english subjects, mathematics for mathematics etc). Im guessing the automatic insertion of trends and formulae will not work along with the colour coded boxes for attendance, effort etc. I also know the SMT will shriek if I say a "portion" of the MIS is hosted in the cloud.

Edited April 25, 2013 by KK20

[GREED]

Just to clear a few things up just so you have an idea of why I have discounted so many other MIS. I didnt want to go into so much detail initially but it seems people are getting the wrong idea on why my options look polarised, im not just saying "no" because Im not interested in certain MIS - I simply believe they wont be suitable. I wasnt clear in my original brief, we have no intention of moving our core existing working intranet functions into another MIS - that is academic reporting, SEN, pastoral tracking (These three facilities are highly customised to our reporting system and to how our teachers "work"). Our change of MIS is stimulated mainly due to the unreliability of E1 (being outside our control "in the cloud" and the lack of our ability to drag information from it. Since then I narrowed the search down to the ones I was asking peoples opinions on - engage, isams and schoolbase as I believed these were either modular or cheap enough for the core functions with the option of getting the data we require simply.

 

In order to answer questions as to "why":

 

I do currently script reports in order to grab certain information from E1 (only certain bits can be pulled directly via PI, for instance exam data and timetable cannot be pulled effectively via PI). This has led to a number of issues; how often do you poll for changes? Does someone need to do it manually? Does the system have a timeout? Do you need to create an automated browser service to "click" events for you? Our .NET service that operates our E1 import facility is cumbersome, it entails taking data from a report, saving it to a directory, the service examines the file, imports to our SQL database. If E1 change anything in the layouts of reporting then the intermediate layer needs to be changed (this has happened -albeit once- in the past when papertypes were changed - layouts altered which mean the exported file changed subtly). Scheduled reports are only as good as the time they are run. Multiple changes during the day especially around options times etc. Direct SQL access (or any kind of database access such as the time we had a read only DSN to the OMNIS database of Phoenix Gold) simply means a join therefore live data. I'm no stranger to schema mapping, it took me 2 weeks to map out phoenix gold (all the bits we needed at least I dont pretend to have mapped it all!) - to anyone else who looked at gold then OMNIS.FPUPILS alone was an exercise in why that database was designed by muppets! Our moodle also uses SETS to automatically enrol pupils into pages and also create "groups" within moodle so that assignments can be matched to sets. This makes sure the markbooks use "moodle groups" that match "SET groups" from the MIS.

 

We have an exam seating planner that works and does everything we need (tables, outside candidates, room overspill, spare machines for scribes and word processors, invgilators checklist, time table for extra time - moves to extremeties of room etc). We have a parents evening scheduler that does everything we need (clashes, siblings, lates, "go home at", "only arrive at" times) . All these systems require data. Ideally an SQL join would sort this out. In a secondary sense I could script reports and import to our SQL database just as I have with E1. Given a choice I would not do this, hence my requirement for database access on demand.

 

I have given one example previously as to why (I estimate) Aspen solution wouldnt suit our academic report. In our academic reports a form tutor report entry looks different to a subject report entry. The house master also has a different layout. EYFS, preparatory and lower school also have different looking reports. Each report is tailored to show (and pre format) required information. I imagine your EYFS and ours are identical as they are statutory fields and radio buttons. Our preparatory give different options for different subjects some have effort target and attainment some do not. Some have information automatically copied in. One example, if a person has an identified SEN weakness in english then this data is added automatically to the report and a flag is set next to the person with JUST the english requirements - not the WHOLE specific learning difficulties (although the whole is viewable by clicking should a teach wish to). This cuts down on clutter enormously. Attendance is calculated and colour coded, we dont use raw numbers. Effort ranking is colour coded depending on previous reports averages in the particular "group" (i.e. prep, lower, middle, 6th etc). Lower school reports do included exam results but only as a comment. Middle (GCSE) and 6th give results and colour coded differences between predicted (from our MIDYIS or ALICE data) as a trend etc. I could go on but dont feel I need to to be honest - i havent scratched the surface on our learning support referral system or pastoral system. Suffice to say I have yet to find an MIS that will do all of the above in a simple manner - im sure they could do most but not all. Our parents are used to getting a page of A4 on each subject with general class comment, data on progress and individual comment based on the data (even the peripatetic reports are fleshed out!). From a teachers point of view all the data is displayed on the report page without the need move elsewhere and really only involves them putting a class comment and a single comment (the rest will be inserted automatically - although it CAN be manually editted if required for exceptions) - plus they are only shown what they need to (although this can be overridden if they want more data, say if they are a house master wanting an overall feel. (excel sheets are also generated automatically for the above and sent to head of departments with more number crunching value added information etc). I am guessing (as is the case of all MIS ive seen so far) that I will be able to get the look and feel of our report and easy tailored data entry but the automated text insertion from specific parts will not work (i.e. english SEN only for english subjects, mathematics for mathematics etc). Im guessing the automatic insertion of trends and formulae will not work along with the colour coded boxes for attendance, effort etc. I also know the SMT will shriek if I say a "portion" of the MIS is hosted in the cloud.

@KK20

 

You are right, we cannot do EVERYTHING you ask... today... however looking carefully down your list we can come pretty darn close through our data analytics engine to support the reporting process.

 

However, I'm not going to 'bang on' about that because you have a solution you are happy with at the front end, what you want to know is can you connect to and extract the raw data you need and when. You really want your own front end to a database built for you. And really the answer is yes you can. It would be some careful work with yourselves (as you would expect, it isn't going to switch on and 'boom' you have everything you had before).

 

I'm always interested to hear why SMT will shriek at their database being hosted in the cloud... and while talking about it you can have it on your local servers just as easily.

 

I won't push this any more, I wish you luck in your search and I think we would all be interested to hear how you get on!! Let us know. If... if you want to talk further on your requirements, even just to discuss and know that Aspen isn't going to fulfil your needs (if you are not certain already based on your assumptions) please do get in contact.

[tombruton]

We simply have a large intranet that needs access to the timetable data, set data, examinations, pupil roll, pupil telephone numbers, doctors addresses etc. Currently I need to run scripts and programs to grab all this information from E1 and place it into an SQL database for our intranet to use. It would be much friendlier for our Intranet to simply access the required information from the MIS database directly.

 

In our experience cloud is bad for critical components. E1 was down pretty much all of yesterday for example, no cover could be scheduled, no exam information could be checked, registers couldnt be entered etc. If it wasnt for my intranet copying chunks of pupil information we wouldnt have had pupil contact numbers for emergencies. None of my core systems (intranet, email, moodle) have ever been down (short of a reboot at lunch time for planned reasons!).

 

Full disclosure I work for ScholarPack a competing cloud based MIS. For a web based service to be down for a full day is just completely unacceptable.

 

All web based systems should be hosted in a tier 3 data center, this means that redundancy is built into any servers hosted there. There should also be co-location so even if the whole data center goes down(very very very rare) the system still wont go down because it will auto fall over to the second location. The only time you should ever loose access to a cloud based MIS is if your internet goes down.

 

Integrating with other systems should be super easy with a cloud based MIS, as its essentially a website, so with a decent API this should be mega easy. Security should be top notch to using things like oauth 2.

[pcstru]

A teir 3 datacenter won't help you when a software update screws the pooch, or a database upgrade runs rampant over your data or the supplier (datacenter, MIS, telecoms etc) goes bust and the creditors flick the off switch. Of course downtime is unacceptable - but changing an MIS is not 'cloud' in that I can just flick a switch and move the service to a new provider. When I choose an MIS provider, it's a commitment that has to last many years IF it is to be good value. Integration can be hugely difficult if you can't access parts the system for diagnostics. Of course, you can pay for the suppliers to do the integration. Hosting is good for suppliers, very very good for suppliers.

[tombruton]

A teir 3 datacenter won't help you when a software update screws the pooch, or a database upgrade runs rampant over your data or the supplier (datacenter, MIS, telecoms etc) goes bust and the creditors flick the off switch. Of course downtime is unacceptable - but changing an MIS is not 'cloud' in that I can just flick a switch and move the service to a new provider. When I choose an MIS provider, it's a commitment that has to last many years IF it is to be good value. Integration can be hugely difficult if you can't access parts the system for diagnostics. Of course, you can pay for the suppliers to do the integration. Hosting is good for suppliers, very very good for suppliers.

 

You are very correct, it has to be paired with proper incremental upgrade/update management. This is also why it is a good idea for your dual location to be with a differently supplier. The odds of both companies going down on the same day is very unlikely. It would be amazing if it was just flicking a switch, however data transfer is never that fun, getting CTF info and the staff workforce census across is just the start.

 

In my personal opinion a web based system with an awesome API is a great way to go for many schools, especially those that have technical people that want to write programs/scripts that utilise the schools data the way they want. Id say the only schools that would have a problem with cloud based system's is those with unreliable internet connection, because not being able to get at your data is not fun.

Again with diagnostics a good API should give you a helpful response and should be easier to work with than directly with a database.

 

I would say supplier hosting is good for everybody. It is the most efficient way, as you can have staff with server expertise for that exact setup and have a deep knowledge of the services its running and how it is setup. It also means you have a system that is far more efficient. Again as far as expertise goes you can use multiple database solutions such as pairing MYsql, with Lucence and Mongodb. Also the vender has control over security with people with expertise in that area. Rather than a windows server running in a school that might not of had a security patch or there is a zero day out, somebody has already managed to access your network they can then attack from that machine. If the vendor is running the server you have people dedicated to updating IDS,IPS's and making that network safe, keeping separate zones, normally running Linux servers which have much better track records for security than windows server, there are formal quality controls on how services are setup to prevent misconfiguration. Schools tend not to have the time, expertise or both to do this properly.

 

The other argument is those that schools are low targets because of little to no finical incentive, they just hold data on children which is important to protect but not highly sort after unlike something like credit card details. So if you do risk analysis on that many would say its ok for schools to have so so security.

[PhilNeal]

For a web based service to be down for a full day is just completely unacceptable.

 

Agreed but it does happen even to major banks with huge resources to ensure that it doesn't. I'm not anti cloud/hosted far from it but when something breaks it does so on a massive scale!

[pcstru]

Id say the only schools that would have a problem with cloud based system's is those with unreliable internet connection, because not being able to get at your data is not fun.

This is just so wrong. The common problem schools have is to do with the suppliers and their management, either of the infrastructure or of the software. Look at Progresso. Look at historical problems with ParentPay, ParentMail, Capita's hosting in Norfolk (or was it Kent?) - there is a pretty big list of suppliers getting it wrong and customers just having to sit there suffering. There are some real disasters waiting to happen. Sony isn't some small company without the means or (one would hope) the in house expertise to do proper security - yet even they can stuff it up big time for their customers. What makes you so sure your company is better than the lowest common denominator of "only human"? How could it be!

I would say supplier hosting is good for everybody. It is the most efficient way, as you can have staff with server expertise for that exact setup and have a deep knowledge of the services its running and how it is setup.

You can also have a cage full of monkeys who know next to nothing about the set-up or particularly your data. And of course you won't know that because the supplier sales folks aren't showing pictures of the cage on their power points. MIS suppliers don't have a monopoly on employing knowledgeable professionals. Sometimes it seems they don't even do very well at it.

Schools tend not to have the time, expertise or both to do this properly.

Some do. Some don't. The question might be which provides the best value to the school. A good MIS system will sit at the centre of a schools management services and provide long term intelligence to the schools teachers and senior management. It is a key/core asset. Companies that outsource their core assets and function often end up paying a heavy price. First the companies that now provide the core services can't help noticing they have their customer by the dingle dangles and if the sales manager wants to hit their bonus, they can always just squeeze a bit. Second, when the service companies do have problems, the health of your business is now tied directly to theirs. You outsourced your expertise but in the process assumed all the operating risk of your own company *and* another, completely alien one. I personally think that is a pretty dumb move. Why would you want to do that?

[tombruton]

This is just so wrong. The common problem schools have is to do with the suppliers and their management, either of the infrastructure or of the software. Look at Progresso. Look at historical problems with ParentPay, ParentMail, Capita's hosting in Norfolk (or was it Kent?) - there is a pretty big list of suppliers getting it wrong and customers just having to sit there suffering. There are some real disasters waiting to happen. Sony isn't some small company without the means or (one would hope) the in house expertise to do proper security - yet even they can stuff it up big time for their customers. What makes you so sure your company is better than the lowest common denominator of "only human"? How could it be!

 

I totally understand why you feel that way when I have heard about the shambles of alot of companies in the public sector. The Sony case is an interesting one because they did the hard stuff right for the most part and did the easy stuff wrong. However a cloud based MIS if setup in the right way should not be vulnerable in that way. However nothing is impossible and other things could take the service down. Sony was a high target for many reasons including PCI, political issues, corporate espionage and many others. An MIS system is not such a target however this does not mean security should not be taken seriously.

 

In my opinion schools should always speak to other schools and ask them what there experience has been. I know as a company we spend almost nothing on marketing the only public thing we do is the Bett show. We get over 90% of our school as recommendations from other schools and that is how we are growing. It is ensured our standards are high because we are building our business upon having a reputation for having the best product(including reliability in this because it can be the best product in the world but if you cant get to it it's useless) and support.

 

Again you are totally correct humans are normally the main cause of security issues. This is why it is important companies train there staff about security most major attacks these days are on the back of social engineering, if you can stop this and flag this behavior you are going to be more secure as a company. The other issue is mis configuration or ineffective setup. This can usually be picked up by good pen testing not just running an automated scan, or putting a WAF on and thinking you are safe makes me cringe everytime. Especially as you can get though PCI DSS with known security flaws if you have a WAF. A company SHOULD have better resources to mitigate these threats than a school.

 

You can also have a cage full of monkeys who know next to nothing about the set-up or particularly your data. And of course you won't know that because the supplier sales folks aren't showing pictures of the cage on their power points. MIS suppliers don't have a monopoly on employing knowledgeable professionals. Sometimes it seems they don't even do very well at it.

 

Again my advice is really drill down into the company that is supplying your MIS ask them every question that is important to you. They should go out of there way to help you at this stage if not that will probably give an insight into there aftercare. Also they should be more than willing to do this as when they buy stuff they should be doing the same thing. After a few conversations you will soon be able to see what there knowledge and services are like. Again talk to other schools see what they are saying. Personally it is pretty rare I buy something in my personal or professional life without reading or getting reviews on that product.

 

Some do. Some don't. The question might be which provides the best value to the school. A good MIS system will sit at the centre of a schools management services and provide long term intelligence to the schools teachers and senior management. It is a key/core asset. Companies that outsource their core assets and function often end up paying a heavy price. First the companies that now provide the core services can't help noticing they have their customer by the dingle dangles and if the sales manager wants to hit their bonus, they can always just squeeze a bit. Second, when the service companies do have problems, the health of your business is now tied directly to theirs. You outsourced your expertise but in the process assumed all the operating risk of your own company *and* another, completely alien one. I personally think that is a pretty dumb move. Why would you want to do that?

 

A good MIS will do that the advantage of a web based one is 100% reliability with redundancy. At the end of the day that is what you are paying for and that is what should be delivered. If a motherboard goes in a server fail-over should happen and as a school you should never notice. You get that included I have never seen a school system with multimaster servers im sure there is one out there but they are few and far between. You do an update on your school server it goes down you have no MIS till you fix it. If a cloud based system breaks the plus is its somebody elses problem the negative is you have no control over that. However we are back to square one is it a company you can trust.

 

The smaller cloud based MIS providers are probably all outsourcing hosting, building a data center cost millions so smaller companies just cant afford it. Some are probably doing it better than others. with hosting you normally get what you pay for, from support up time guarantees, disaster plans (including nuclear strikes), support, auditing ability. I would never go with a data center that I couldn't visit and check things are being done well. Again its interrogating the company making sure you are going to get a good service from them. Also when it is business critical using multi vendors and risk assessing those vendors. Also making sure you are left flexible if you get bad service or unsustainable price hikes being able to move without it effecting your customers.

 

All your points you raise are valid ones and ones I would be asking if I was buying an MIS personally. I would also be looking for schools that are using the product that are similure to the school I was buying an MIS for in size, type and structure.

[GREED]

In sticking well clear... I'm feeling the love from here!

 

I am sensing you have been burned recently by MIS Software?

@PhilNeal I agree totally (shock horror!), but only with a system that is setup in such a way to allow a systemic issue affect all its customers. In this topic, SIMS' isolation is a huge advantage. However if you have such a scenario in mind from the off, you design resilience and redundancy and facilities for separation into the product. At worse a single school has temporary issues without impacting on all the others.

 

If datacenter A dies, datacenter B is still online and available. (BTW if datacenter dies with all the international banks and finance institutions inside... On a personal level I will be very concerned for my livelihood!)

 

Just some tips for your cloud offering soon Phil

 

(I'm kidding of course, friendly banter!)

[pcstru]

I am sensing you have been burned recently by MIS Software?

 

Me? Not particularly. I think I'm a realist about these things. I've worked both ends - on the production of large, integrated MIS systems and then in a school that makes use of one. I know it is difficult to produce complex high quality software for many customers with subtly different needs and I know as a user that our use of systems will sometimes be ... kludgey when we try and get them to do things they don't quite want to do. Nothing is perfect, infact with most things it's pretty good going to get out of spitting distance of some ugly compromise which you try and live with by calling it 'pragmatism'.

 

We have just embarked on a project to replace our current product. Our target go-live date is Sept 2015. We have a good opportunity to look carefully at what we actually want from a system, let our needs drive the selection and critically assess how the supplier offerings meet those requirements. I've no doubt you will be hearing from us soon.

[GREED]

Sounds like you have an excellent and well planned out project going forward,

I wish you luck and if I am standing in front of you I will do my best to impress

[vikpaw]

Trying to steer back to topic, though the discussion is very interesting.

@KK20 - i may have missed it somewhere, apologies if i have, do you have portals / access for the parents ? Is this something you want, and intend to push your smart reports into? I can imagine ease of doing that will be a factor.

 

Also in terms of data reporting / access - iSAMS have a massive API with a dedicated interface (they showed me at BETT), and that is totally cloud based (correct me if i'm wrong..), so you could be the one hosting, or it could be offsite (co-located etc. as above), but you should still be able to automate the data pulls you want rather than needing direct access. Presumably they showed you this when you specified your requirements.

[trekmad]

We are an independent school and use iSAMS and have done for a couple of years. Moved from CMIS when progresso was rearing it's head and was under the premise that if staff had to get used to a new product then they should get used to one that does what they need. Very happy with iSAMS overall. Support is brilliant and the system is easy to use. We host it ourselves. Feel free to get in touch if you want to discuss further and if you are local we are more than happy for you to visit.

[KK20]

Our portal is lacking at the moment. I am half way through pushing an automatic sanitised intranet derived dataset directly to moodle. Parents will need to use their child logons unfortunately as I don't want to go creating extra accounts for parents. Since the project is already planned, designed and being implemented/tested it wont be scrapped and moved to an MIS. That being said, even if I did use a similar approach to iSAMS portal, it means I need to scrap the reports etc which simply wont happen. After the iSAMS demo I was reasonably impressed but even the mighty iSAMS has some issues in our eyes (migration is the major hurdle with iSAMS - i.e. we need to do it ourselves effectively. A quoted 10 week migration is (quite frankly) not acceptable. Even crappy E1 managed it in 3 days apparently. Doublefirst quoted 5 although that included a couple of days onsite so effectively 3+2.