NETGEAR WFS709TP ProSafe Managed Wireless

[Mr.Ben]

Does anyone have one of these?

 

Basically I can't afford managed wireless (£5k plus), but at Bett i was told by the Netgear chaps that this retails at around £1,500 - affordable for me, and as we have the compatible Netgear Prosafe WAP's on our laptop trolleys I wouldn't have to purchase too many aerials.

 

Does anyone know why this seems so cheap?

 

Does it have any disadvantages over a more expensive solution?

 

Cheers, Ben

[nicholab]

Look at this "OEM version of Aruba Network's 800-series controller paired with Netgear's own lightweight-series access points." http://www.networkcomputing.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=202800770&pgno=11

[contink]

I'm dragging this thread back up as crunch time has now arrived and sadly the comparison guide I was hoping for, hasn't materialised (not to demean anyones efforts!)

 

So, did or has anyone plumped for one of the Netgear WFS709TP units and how have you found things so far?

[benIT]

I'm dragging this thread back up as crunch time has now arrived and sadly the comparison guide I was hoping for, hasn't materialised (not to demean anyones efforts!)

 

So, did or has anyone plumped for one of the Netgear WFS709TP units and how have you found things so far?

 

Yep!!

 

Just waiting for delivery of 48 dummy clients, 3 controllers!!

 

Also purchased 9 netgear POE (Power Over Ethernet) switches

 

Will let you know how it goes next week

[trekmad]

I can definately recommend the WFS709TP as we have 2 of them linked together serving 32 WAGL102 light access points. We went down this route as we had previously installed 30 WG302 access points 3 years ago which were great but did not support VLANs or multiple SSID's (this has been added to the WG302v2).

 

We have configured the units with 4 SSID's over 3 VLANs and with 4 different authentication methods without a problem. One of the great benefits is that the light access points are reset if they lose connection with the switch.

 

In answer to why they are so cheap it is partly because they can only control 16 APs per controller and you can only stack 3 controllers together linking 48 APs max. If you need more than this you would have to look at a higher cost unit.

 

Another great thing about these is I have had great experiences with netgear support for blue (business) products.

 

I Hope this helps.

[SimpleSi]

4 SSID's over 3 VLANs and with 4 different authentication methods

 

If you got a minute, would you mind explaining a bit more about your setup please as it looks very interesting?

 

Particularly interested as to why its so complex.

 

regards

 

Simon

[trekmad]

Our setup in as follows by VLAN.

 

Vlan 1 (default network VLAN) has two SSIDs

 

1. SECWIRELESS - Radius authenticated wireless allowing our staff laptops which are domain members to connect to our network.

 

2. SECWIRELESS2 - WPA Shared passphrase allowing staff PDA's, Mobile phones and approved govenors/visitors laptops to connect to our network.

 

Vlan 2 (Student Internet)

 

INTERNET - open authentication allowing our boarders to connect to the internet. This is on a separate VLAN directing traffic from the AP's wireless network to a Firewall/Router which has filtering packs on to prevent access to undesirable content.

 

Vlan 3 (Voip)

 

SECVoip - open authentication allowing our wireless Mitel handsets to connect to our telephone system over wifi.

 

 

Vlan 3 has highest priority on both our Lan and WLan to ensure voice calls stay active under high traffic conditions.

 

 

 

VLANs 1 and 2 exist to separate internet traffic to different broadband lines as our max available broadband speed is around 5MB. Additionally it provides security for our core network to restrict our students from disrupting our core network.

[eean]

I'm interested in the load-balancing aspects of it:

Am I right in thinking that if there are multiple clients (like a set of laptops) in the range of 2 or more APs, it will automatically balance them between the APs. So - even if the signal strength on one AP is poorer, it will still send a few clients to that AP because, overall, the throughput will be higher than everyone connecting to the loudest AP.

 

What about the a/g version? If the clients have a/g cards, will it automatically balance the clients between the 2 frequencies?

 

How's about:

We have a network of 8 unmanaged g-only APs. I was thinking of replacing those with the managed wireless solution (most classrooms will get very good signal from 1 AP and weak signal from 1 or 2 others) - this should provide basic coverage everywhere.

But, to cater for our 30 laptops (half of which have a/g cards - the other half have a/b internal (but currently disabled) and g external), allow staff to plug in another 1 or 2 mobile APs to a nearby ethernet socket. I was thinking that, with 802.11a having 8 non-overlapping frequencies that would be a good way of providing extra capacity. Will the controller cope with this? i.e. will it say, "oh yes, there is already one AP using channel 1, and another using channel 5, so these new ones can use channels 8 and 13".

Then, it should load-balance the pcs between them?

[SimpleSi]

@trekmad

Very interesting.

 

I haven't quite grasped why you have 2 separate SSIDs on Vlan1 - please point me off to an article if you don't want to give me a 101 lecture

 

regards

 

Simon

[john]

I would say he has 2 as some devices won't support the high level stuff that RADIUS maybe uses and also if you have a governor just popping in who needs the internet you don't want to have to add it to all that RADIUS stuff to get it online instead just bang in a wep key and off you go.

[trekmad]

John is spot on.

[eean]

@treckmad:

Do you use the 802.11a/g version? If so, can you take a look at my question above?

I've downloaded the manual and I can't find anything that explains how the load-balancing works, making me wonder if it even does it.

 

Thanks,

[Ric_]

@eean: From my research the wireless guide, Prosafe does support load balancing and automatic RF management. Assuming that the Netgear kit works the same as others, you can use the same SSID on both radios in the dual-band APs and the solution should balance across the all the radios.

 

A note about the Netgear is that it supports the least number of APs in a solution (16 per controller with a maximum of 48 per solution - 32 with a redundant controller).

 

One of the problems I am having with the guide is getting info from manufacturers... for instance Netgear sent me some marketing blurb saying how great their networking products are because they have metal enclosures!

[contink]

A note about the Netgear is that it supports the least number of APs in a solution (16 per controller with a maximum of 48 per solution - 32 with a redundant controller).networking products are because they have metal enclosures!

 

This is true Ric but remember not everyone is dealing with a secondary size site.. this sort of limitation is not going to be an issue for a Primary unless they're housing 1000 pupils!

 

As for the marketing spiel.. Gah!

 

I think overall I've decided to go for this unit for the project I've got lined up. How it performs we'll see... but certainly I'm going to be giving it a thrashing with about 8-10 AP's and 80+ laptops so I'll keep you posted

[eean]

@eean: From my research the wireless guide, Prosafe does support load balancing and automatic RF management. Assuming that the Netgear kit works the same as others, you can use the same SSID on both radios in the dual-band APs and the solution should balance across the all the radios.

 

Thanks.

So, if I had 15 a/g clients, it would put roughly half on a and the other on g. Then, should another 15g-only clients come along, it'd move some of the a/gs to a to free up space on g for the g-onlys. If it does, that's bloody cleaver but I wonder if I'm expecting too much.

 

I don't want to spend 2k on some kit and ripping out all the APs we have, when I could have achieved something similar by creating a few extra SSIDs for mobile-APs and assigning specific computers to them.

 

Now, this is a long shot, but I'll ask.

Anyone know what happens when a client has 2 cards. So my RMs have a/b cards (which are currently disabled) and g-only external. How would Windows and the APs cope if the internal card were re-enabled (b disabled on the AP or, possibly, card). I'm guessing there's no way of making senible use of this internal a card (like teaming the adaptors together??) and windows will make 2 separate connections and access them in the order specified in "Network connections - advanced settings"?

[Ric_]

@eean: There are systems (such as Bluesocket) that can make use of your existing kit which might help ease your migration costs.

 

I think you are asking a bit much for 'teaming' your wireless interfaces though. This is a limitation of Windows networking though rather than the wireless solutions.

[benIT]

I am just in the process of setting up a some netgear WFS709TP units.

 

I am having some problems with settings, so far I have configured....

 

On the Controller...

 

enabled 802.1x/WEP

Enabled RADIUS

Added Windows 2008 Radious Details (IP Etc)

 

The server is set to do not authentication ( is this right? Or do I need to create selfsigned certificate?)

 

The clients connect ok, but keep saying "Validating Identity" and "Windows was unable to find a certificate to log you on to the network xxnamexx"

 

Any help appreciated

 

Ben

[contink]

Right... here's my initial insight into this little joyous bundle.

 

1. Firmware = image management (WTF?!)

2. Documentation = 200+ pages (but useful)

3. Time = find Dr Who or a suitable Time Lord to take you back a few millenia so you don't die before you work it all out

 

 

Ok... so it's not that bad but it's not that easy either. A few tips to the uninitiated.

 

DHCP:

Don't just plug the switch in and then forget about it... If you leave it without at least running the basic setup you'll find your DHCP server being pushed around by the one on the switch. As soon as you've done basic setup though it turns DHCP off by default.

 

Not sure if it was related but I'd recommend restarting your DHCP service when you've done this too... Spent 3 hours trying to figure out why DHCP wasn't working properly this morning but can't be sure it was related.

 

 

Non-AP's plugged into the port?

For some reason the switch won't complain if you plug a non-AP connected patch into it. Not necessarily a bad thing but you will probably want to know if you've gotten the wrong one.. Check for ports that don't get the status light lit up after 2 or 3 minutes

 

Oh and watch out for that... the AP's take a couple of minutes to "check in" so a certain amount of sitting around is required.

 

 

Firmware

I haven't a frigging clue what the dumb at Netgear were thinking but I'm guessing because AP related stuff used the term firmware they felt they couldn't use it again for controller related [whisper]firmware[/whisper]. The way to upload is:

Maintenance > (Controller) Image Management

 

You then upload the (no suffix) "image file".

 

One nice touch is that you seem to have two different boot partitions in the flash so you can upload one new "image", try it and if it fubars, you can go into the serial interface and reset it.

 

 

Hyper "what now?" terminal?

You're going to want to install this somewhere that has a serial port and be ready to use it... It's absolutely vital for when you f*** up (like I did) and set the controller to use an IP that's already in use . Instructions are in the KB on the site though so you just follow those and you are away.

 

 

... and so concludes my first day using this thing... I've not gone into the majority of tools and really just shoved some AP's in where the old ones were before. Doubtless I'll have other nuggets to share but those are the initial ones. In fairness I'm not sure that it's as hard as some have made out in reviews but I've a pretty new "image" firmware so I'm guessing early bugs have been ironed out...

 

Gotta love POE and the netgear APs though... Lovely stuff

[Jose]

hi

 

can anyone tell me if this device can manage access points that are not plugged directly into it, the access points are on the network but would not be directly plugged into it.

 

The netgear site suggests that this can be done via ip tunnels but I need to make sure

 

Thanks

[benIT]

hi

 

can anyone tell me if this device can manage access points that are not plugged directly into it, the access points are on the network but would not be directly plugged into it.

 

The netgear site suggests that this can be done via ip tunnels but I need to make sure

 

Thanks

 

yes it can support this.

 

This is ideal for use with other POE switches in another building, allowing them still to have no mains, but controlled by the controllers!!!

 

The Ip tunnels (or VLANS) are setup automatically, but you can configure further if required!

 

Cheers

 

Ben

[contink]

Right... bit more of an update as today has been "WLAN day"..

 

Been having fun trying to work out why the Access Points were randomly dropping my connection and two in particular kept going offline. It was only when I booted up my laptop and Wi-Spy that the obvious hit me like a 2 by 4.. They were all on channel 1.

 

Turns out my wizard experience was a bit of a sham and as folks on various reviews have pointed out, you really need to do some reading or have a professional to hand when configuring this thing.

 

So, here be part #2 of my review.

 

Basic Configuration

Chocolate fireguard springs to mind... Just don't bother... You need the Advanced tab to get this thing work.

 

Confusing Acronyms

Throughout the manual you will find references to the IRM Intelli Radiofreq' Management... It's actually ARM on the configuration pages (helpful? Not really! )

 

Which Channels

For whatever reason the switch thinks you're in the USA and defaults all its channel policies to be US based. If you're intending to use IRM .. Oops I mean ARM, you'll want to edit the Advanced > RF Polioies > Policies page pronto.... Oh and ignore the less than helpfully confusing title when you've actually gone to that link.. "Misconfigured AP"

 

Setting ARM

I didn't bother with this in the end but for whatever reason the AP at Location 1.1.1 kept trying to use it so I decided to set it anyway..

 

Make sure you edit your policies (see above) and then for your WLAN > Radio just tick ARM Scanning, and keep your defaults for the fields: "ARM Scan Time (msecs)" & "ARM Scan Interval (secs)".

 

To be doubly sure you don't randomly disconnect users who are actually on a channel and their laptop doesn't like channel shifting, you should also tick the field "ARM Client Aware".

 

That's about it.

 

Setting It Manually

As I said, ARM/IRM is not overly impressive so I opted to setup my AP's manually using the Configuration > Advanced > WLAN > Advanced tab

 

It's pretty simple stuff but for Location 1.1.1 it seems to be a little reluctant to follow the policy (could be something I did though)..

 

 

 

All of this aside, I have to say I'm now relatively happy with the setup... I did need to read a LOT of information, fathom out that the firmware developer and manual author aren't on the same planet, let alone wavelength and learn the odd quirk work-around but all in all it's a neat piece of kit.

 

If you're looking for something that will work pretty quickly out of the box though, forget it, unless, as has been mentioned before, you have a netgear pet professional on tap.

[dtaylor]

I have 2 wfs709tp controllers and 30 Aps. They are all set on 1 VLan with 1ssid at the moment (all on channel 1 - is this a problem? Seems to work ok) I would like to set up captive portal linked to my AD users but can't get the logon page to come up. It will connect but only if I use the Internal Database. Any tips?

[eean]

I have 2 wfs709tp controllers and 30 Aps. They are all set on 1 VLan with 1ssid at the moment (all on channel 1 - is this a problem? Seems to work ok)

Yes, having them all on one channel is a problem. The channel is the radio frequency the AP is broadcasting on. Having them all on the same frequency means that one AP will be interfearing with adjacent APs. Yes, it will work, but you will be slowing it down.

You should use 1, 6, and 11 as these channels do not overlap frequencies. If you have more than 3 APs within range of each other you could use 1, 5, 9 and 13 because these are almost non-overlapping.

 

There should be a setting in the wireless manager to let it sort this all out for you - this should also automatically 'turn down' other APs if they are causing interference.

[contink]

Thought I'd pass on this little resource I found today while reviewing the wlan at one school:

 

http://neclub.netgear.com.cn/nebs/UpFile/UpAttachment/2008-10/20081028104049.ppt

 

Much more useful than the manual!

[contink]

I've had quite a while since I've needed to come back to the WLAN controller and our network but I've realised I can't remember how on earth I set things up and as it's currently not broke I don't want to "fix it" while trying to suss out a small change to allow guess access.

 

I suspect that I set everything up using this:

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/networks/2920-radius-ias-3.html#post141909

.. guide and that it didn't involve too much in terms of configuration of the controller.

 

That in turn makes me suspect that I haven't gained the max' benefit from the controller so I'd like a reality check from anyone who has the same controller, is using RADIUS and is happy for me to phone and bounce a few queries and ideas of them.

 

Ideally a best practice with this controller is what I'm after but basically any help so I can deal with the sinking feeling in my gut.

 

Cheers.