SimonRushton

Tempting to pick up on the theme of what are the ‘right results’ and who should decide, but that’s perhaps too much to do with the debate about the purpose of education for this forum? If not, happy to engage! In the meantime whilst you may be standardised because it suits you the the reality is that the policy of "Collaborative standardisation" means you (i.e. MATs) no longer have choice as soon as you don’t get the ‘right results’ (whatever they may be!)

Well meant and well said. Worth noting that the consequence of focusing on (and achieving) school improvement and student progress will be a school that has no need to fear external accountability in the form of OfSTED - do the right thing for the right reasons! That being the case it would be a service to the sector if this forum’s members could tease out the characteristics of MIS systems that could be expected to meet success criteria based on these outcomes and perhaps others such as student wellbeing, staff job satisfaction, parental engagement. Anyone up for having a go at that?

The point Phil Neale was making was that whilst what you and others say about OFSTED is true(ish) the people whose tune Academies dance to are the Regional School Commissioners and above them David Carter the National Schools Commissioner. So what tune are they playing? It’s called "Collaborative standardisation" (a term coined by the National commissioner) which is a bit of Orwellian doublespeak that in plain English means ‘agree to be the same or else risk painful consequences’. In the speech I heard the term used it seemed to apply to a wide swathe of MAT operations/policies/processes, it certainly applied to core systems including Finance, HR and, of course MIS. That is why MATs are buying cloud based systems and why Capita are committed to offering one, sooner or later. It may be a case of doing the right thing for the wrong reason but unless and until the RSCs are no more it is a fact of life.

IMHO Dartmouth has probably now been overtaken by us in Plymouth (though someone there may challenge that!) which unfortunately is even further from London! Nevertheless, you would still be very welcome to visit, GTM/Webex, etc. (Assessment/Reporting are by far our areas of deepest diving/experience/expertise).

We use the REST API to integrate with Adaptive Learning System (RealizeIt - you almost certainly won't have heard of it but it's worth a look) A Learning Platform (HERO - again you probably won't have heard of it but if your school has an interest in any of competency/skills/enquiry/project/problem-based learning then it will be of relevance) People HR. In the first two cases the supplier did the work in the latter we contracted with an independent third party specialist. All three integrations are working well although the People HR one has not gone live (nothing to do with the API). The independent third party was very efficient, flexible, and cheap! Next in line are integrations with; HCSS Finance (FMS competitor fairly new to the market), possibly MyConcern, Inventry, Room Booking +, for now.

Curiouser and curiouser! As Alice in Wonderland would have said - how can a cloud-based system behave so differently in two places and it not be caused by the difference between the connectivity of the locations? We have dozens of staff using the system every minute of every day on iPads, Chromebooks, Macs, not PCs (relevant perhaps?). Teachers are taking registers in class, entering behaviour records on the fly, updating formative comments in assessments alongside children. I've just looked at the audit trail on (on a wireless Mac at home) and it tells me there have been nearly 1400 entries since 8 this morning with no reports of any holdups at all. Of course, there are issues sometimes but they are by far the exception, not the rule. If that were not the case we would not accept it but I don't see how we could reasonably Advanced accountable. Somebody, somewhere is not giving you the service you deserve but it's simply not Advanced. Whilst on the subject @bigdannyb79 your comments are, in my 'umble opinion, a tad unfair.... Commenting on the launch of Progresso something like eight years ago is like blaming Tony Blair for what happened in Copeland! Performance? See above but mention of Integris is entertaining (if days gone by are fair comment) and, I can only repeat, Progresso is fast enough for the vast majority of the time and (like all systems) it will get faster. SSRS is hard because proper reporting is hard. Blaming a system that uses it is barking up the wrong tree. The truth is if SSRS is good enough for other sectors it's good enough for Education but too many managers in education won't spend enough money on recruiting, or training, people to master it. The consequence is they (the managers) don't have the information they need, then they blame you (the system administrators) and you blame them (the system developers) when in fact they (the managers) should go look in a mirror to see who to blame (all a bit Alice again, sorry). If you know about 'plugging any MIS into a genuine BI product' and getting new meaningful information, as a result, would you like a job? Everyone agrees the UI/UX needs updating, it's coming, it's true. (Donald making an appearance, but it really is true!) Out of the box reports are pretty comprehensive - the past is the past - seems to me that the people reading this thread are looking for information about their future choices The API, you're right is increasingly important and a REST API is... a REST API. Genuinely sorry your head seems to be down and equally sorry that has steered the dialogue away from what really matters which is that an MIS, any MIS, should play a significant, and direct role, in a school's ability to enable children to achieve their potential. That can be said of what Progresso does for Plymouth School of Creative Arts and that's why we endorse it.

Maybe Advanced will beat Capita to the draw in providing a cloud-based system with the 'right ideas' that doesn't just 'look good on paper'! They do have a big head start and '000s less diverse, dyed in the wool schools, to migrate! Also, I think it is fair comment to say that aside from UI/UX issues, which are acknowledged by Advanced, Progresso is remarkably fast, robust, forgiving, flexible and, in the area of every schools' core business (attainment and progress), has the potential to be an extraordinarily powerful tool. True Report Builder is a beast, but the out of the box report library is developing rapidly, and the pool of people able to use the tool is growing as it gets more traction and is easier to use. Going back to the subject of what will, one day, eventually, be SIMS online, it will be interesting to see what their system uses....

Same here (in terms of things not breaking). On the subject of training/usability there are fascinating differences between organisations too. When we gave access to Progresso to staff (and parents) we provided no training at all. The short term consequence was of course that there was a lot of confusion which you might be surprised to hear we both expected and welcomed! That was what we wanted because people learn best by exploring and doing, helping and being helped, not by being 'spoon fed' out of context, off the page (or screen), training. The approach worked well for us because it reflects the ethos of the school - if you don't know then find out, learning starts when you get outside your comfort zone! There is of course a huge difference between what I've described for users who are interested in and need to know only a tiny subset of the system, and specialists (e.g. Sys admins, exam managers, timetablers, cover managers, report builders, etc, etc.). The specialists need training and as described that is available, the fact there is so much of it demonstrates the scope and scale of the system and would surely be expected of any serious enterprise level system? Maybe the difficult bit for schools used to SIMS is sort of in the middle group, I.e. not 'light touch' users (e.g. classroom, home based), not process specialist (e.g. exams, timetables, etc) but the 'office staff'? If so that does need addressing, for now, internally by the supplier. But, it's not a good reason for not choosing, or liking, a system and, as time goes by, will become increasingly irrelevant as people learn by doing, the system improves and, ultimately, the job changes in schools who will rely less on generic admin staff thanks to the increase of self service by those 'light touch' users who become data collectors, maintainers, providers, and even analysts.

Nothing to disagree with what everyone else has said. What is interesting about Progresso at the minute is that being, I think, the oldest cloud based MIS on the market it needs a UI/UX refresh which I believe it is due to receive in 2017. If they do a good job of that it will mitigate the support issues mentioned and make it much easier for the system to realise its potential because staff, parents, and yes ...even students why not?, will have access to an easy to access and comprehensive range of data. Could be the Holy Grail - an integrated information system that delivers the benefits of integration!

Hi, We use Progresso but not for room booking. There's no shame in not using an MIS as a room booking system (for the supplier or the school) it's a case of horses for courses. On that basis (especially if you want to maximise commercial use of your space) have a look at Room Booking Plus from Kajima, it's not well known but is very well thought out, powerful but simple. Not linked to any MIS (which is a bit frustrating) but worth a look nevertheless. On the 'depresso' front it's a shame that people feel the way they do because the truth is that whilst the system has its foibles it is coherent, robust, rapid, it's just that being a big beast it takes some getting to know and managing. From an end user perspective: I hear that the UI/UX is up for a major overhaul in the not too distant which is to be expected given Progresso was the first cloud based MIS. The fact that the system is now being rolled out in the AET monster MAT is interesting - means the company will be under pressure but also means they have the incentive to press on which is timely given that SIMs is, it seems, about to re-enter a period of change like the one when they moved to .NET. The grey heads amongst us will remember that's when Facility (predecessor to Progresso) went rapidly from 0 to hundreds of schools - there being no better time to jump ship than when your current supplier is going to make you do so anyway, one way or another....

We started to use Progresso at the beginning of the academic year (but I used it in my previous school from 2012). The system produces stunning reports, that are designed around our assessment model not a generic one, which are providing teachers and leaders with information they can use to impact directly on learning - that is 'core business' and a big tick in the box! Behaviour management is also a big plus, partly thanks to in situ data collection and partly, again, thanks to the power of the reporting engine and its ability to produce tailored information in realtime (in widgets) which help interventions to be timely and appropriate. Priorities now are; increasing the system's use by parents and students of the online portal which is an integral part of the system - enabled simply by creating appropriate user accounts and developing cluster reports. To address the 'horror stories' aspect: a lot of these relate to performance and a time when the system was very young, not on Amazon servers, in an era when broadband was much slower for most schools than it is now. Others often relate to what we think of as key but not core - e.g. Exam administration, office administration, etc. Thankfully Advanced focused on these early doors and processes are much quicker and simpler to execute and maintain. We are in Plymouth so a little easier than Lincolshire to get to, you would be very welcome to visit when the time is right for you.

I think the data you describe can be stored in system fields and they are much easier to use in reports. It might be a good investment of time and effort to spend a couple of days with one of AL's trainers (one-to-one, ideally not in a many-to-one course setting). It would enable you to get really familiar with the system's scope and structure, learn how to make best use of the highly configurable interface, and avoid creating a bespoke environment, at least until you've pushed the standard one to its (standard) limits.

Hi, We've been using Progresso since last September and are very pleased with the progress that's been made. If you are a Progresso user and make contact with Michael Donnelly at Advanced he can arrange for you to be introduced to a suite of assessment and behaviour inputs, outputs and analyses, that will save you a lot of time and effort. The schedules, language, and scales used can be adapted to meet local requirements and the reports, being SSRS, are of course totally adaptable. The model can cater for both Primary (life after levels) and Secondary (Progress 8) worlds. For us Progresso is now just what an enterprise MIS system should be: a powerful, robust, quick, reliable system that simply works, and works simply, in day to day operations, yet has the capacity to meet the most off the wall/unique/demanding requirements of individual schools across the whole spectrum of MIS functionality. Whilst we are pleased with the system as it stands, we do want to see it develop further and faster especially across clusters of schools. We think an independent association of users would help both its members and the company in this respect. If you would be interested in joining such an organisation please let me know either through this thread, PM, or email to [email protected].

Hi, We've been using Progresso since last September and are very pleased with the progress that's been made. If you make contact with Michael Donnelly at Advanced he can introduce you to a suite of assessment and behaviour inputs and outputs that will save you a lot of time and effort compared with building a model from scratch - the schedules, language, and scales used can be adapted to meet your expectations and the reports being SSRS are of course all editable. For us Progresso is now just what an enterprise MIS system should be: a powerful, robust, quick, reliable system that simply works, and works simply, in day to day operations, yet has the capacity to meet the most off the wall/unique/demanding requirements of individual schools across the whole spectrum of MIS functionality. Whilst we are pleased with the system as it stands, we do want to see it develop further and faster especially across clusters of schools. We think an independent association of users would help both its members and the company in this respect. If you would be interested in joining such an organisation please let me know either through this thread, PM, or email to [email protected].

Interesting reference to the 'big move to SIMS.net. That was a master class in wait for it, wait for, wait for it (but don't look around while you're waiting for it 'cos it will be great... just trust us. (aka The Dilbert school of software marketing) Expect much more of the same as the effort to maintain hegemony ramps up in the interest of the big C's shareholders and stakeholders. All good fun, unless you care about why management (don't use) information systems in our sector are so archaic compared with others.

The 'Final report of the Commission on Assessment without Levels ' has just been published and marks a watershed. It has some pretty good advice, not about what systems are good, or not, but about what whole school priorities will need to be, from now on, in terms of what to expect of their systems. Thanks to 'life without levels' your school (every school) has a great opportunity to define what it values, and therefore wants to measure, and to challenge suppliers to show they can support your school's individual and different priorities. So; step 1: Ask SLT if they have read it (they should have), step 2: get SLT to define the school's requirements, step 3: Put them to ALL the suppliers Focussin on how their generic systems cope with individual differences.

Hi, We are a free school that has recently chosen Progresso. Would be very happy to talk through the reasons why if you would like to contact me directly.

It's an interesting thread! In 2011 at a former school although we did fall foul of the credit control pitfall (because we did not go with the eLearning Foundation) the decision not to have suites as such and to comprehensively adopt a wireless network/mobile device strategy was entirely vindicated by learning outcomes/student progress. Today I would have thought the decision aken then would not so much be leading edge/out there as the mainstream/safe bet option. Would be interested to know who, in what role argues otherwise and on what basis.

Your comparing Oranges with Pears. The eLearning Foundation is a charity.

A trustworthy third party who can manage payment collection and help with publicity for a parental purchase scheme (of any sort of mobile device) is a charity called the eLearning Foundation, e-Learning Foundation - Options, well worth a look before jumping in with a commercial provider of kit/finance or going it alone.

Ok, can't help personally (being in Devon) but can say for sure your employer and any local primary will both applaud and welcome you taking the initiative and making this happen. They will both be engaged in helping kids to 'have go, take a chance' and to adopt an open mindset, if you do the same you are sure to impress and to open doors for yourself.

Aren't 'IT suites' and 1:1 from different ages (with the IT suite being the dinosaur overdue for extinction)?

I heard a technician in a school I was in today said ' I've got a new job in another school, less hours, more money, just what I want'. As long as you don't have that attitude but do work in a school because you want to, not have to, then you will do well, and deserve to. Otherwise you might as well go and work in a bank, factory, office, whatever!

Where in the country are you?