matt40k

Cheers @PhillipHamlyn, I think two of the slides sum up the goal, cut down the hassle of getting data and producing the extracts. Important to note the length of time it takes them to turn the information that we feed them into something we can download.

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Do you know what my over simplistic view of the data exchange project is @pcstru - it's the DfE standardising Capita B2B process. Maybe the "census" would be produced from the data held higher up the stream, and the school would approve it. I don't see that approval ever disappearing, I mean we're human, we make mistakes. You need the ability to hey, that's not right, hang on a min, I need to correct that. Otherwise the data will be total rubbish. The aspect is the governments places to bring everything under one banner. It makes sense, how accurate would you say the EduBase data is for example? It's looking at what data is pulled and going hey, we ask for x multiple times for tasks a, b, c. Lets get it once, then reuse. Regards to SIF, yer, it is a bit of a buzz word people like to throw around, after speak with @GREED, my basic understand is it's a protocol. The big I have a problem with it is the endpoints, which really isn't SIF, SIF is just how the data is "formatted" in transmission, the endpoints is the bit that will deal with the data and that's the bit I think the problems will occur. How you deal with the suspense. If we look at @penfold_99 excellent example of FSM, this is a brilliant use of the system. As a parent I can apply online, I don't need to read some overcomplicated form about if I am eligible or not, I just apply and if I am, my school gets extra money if not, oh well, I get a letter in the post (bizarre that they have to write a physical letter to you for a digital process). I think what the DfE want is a standard rather then a proprietary solution so [schools] aren't discriminated by the [LA] choice of system. Regards to not sharing, in the case of safeguarding - specifically when a person has a doubt or a concern. How do you deal with that? As a parent I would hope they would address their concerns with me, but if they still had doubts, I respect they would want to have a report expressing those doubts so that if other occurrences happen, they have a strong case and not some stories that start "well, I remember...". My only hope is that these are shared, I don't want them to sit in a filling cabinet only to be wheeled out post-mortem as a form of arse covering. I want it to be used proactively. In Suffolk there is a project called Family Focus that is joining services together to build a bigger picture, so health, police and social care data is combined to give a wider view of the whole family. Data needs to be shared, it needs to be used. Otherwise it's useless. People can't make good decisions without good information and that means data and anything, be it SIF or otherwise that makes it easier to get the data is worthwhile, especially if it helps prevent vendor lock-in.

Agreed, at the time it was a MIS and the MIS has evolved since those days, so in todays turns, of comparing then and now, problem not, but that's like comparing DOS to Windows 8.1. I think we agree that a MIS isn't something something that could be created and left alone, it needs continued development and devops ideals seem to fit the bill. So in terms of selecting a new MIS, you need a product from someone who is active in development. Ideally using in-house developers who also support it (my logic being if they mess up, they'll feel the pain, rather then a outsource company who maybe more relaxed and see bugs as more money).

Difference between Moodle and any attempt thus far of a open-source UK focused MIS system is Moodle has the backing of universities who have the resources to develop and maintain the systems. Maintain is the key, years ago, before SIMS every LA had a designed their own MIS system, in Suffolk it was called SMAC, but when the time came for a rewrite in C, they didn't want to invest. If you look around, quite a few good ideas have been developed over the years, but the bit where they fall down is the maintenance. Before any code is written you almost need a large community to commit to funding it for a set number of years, document the requirements, then start building something. Perhaps even accept it will only replace one aspect of the MIS system at first then build upon it. With regards to @pcstru points about the data exchange, he is views will be polar, your got the almost day-to-day guy going up against the visionary, between the two you'll get what will actually happen. I think what is important @GREED is that the census is generally a clean up session, the tasks you often put off get done at once, some things, like data collection sheets that need to be manually entered won't get entered until closer to the census - it's unlikely your need to enter a pupil ethnicity on the first day of term - home address however I would say is critical, as is name (legal birth certificate AND known as). Long term the barriers of data re-enter will disappear, how long, who knows. I theory, you apply for a school place, the school gets all the details from day one when you fill in the form. The other aspect of the census is it gives you a overview that isn't normally seen. Seeing the odd day absence might seem ok, but when the cold hard summary comes in, it could be pretty shocking, which kinda leads me onto... I would say 10 years ago Bromcom and their introduction of electronic registers was a big idea, not much else has really happened, personally, big data is the next big thing. I've been looking at Arbor and how they mash up those lovely extracts the DfE produce from all those returns schools do and give them a overview of the your school vs similar vs all schools. I think, this is the way forward. EDIT: Durr, the internet, how did I forget that little beauty - with all it's cloudy, virtualy goodness.

Don't forget @GREED and @JohnCondon it's elections next year, nothing kills a public project then a new leader - looks at the chair with the words "Reserved for Becta".

Bah, pesky third party client firewalls strikes again! Seems Sophos has a KB - How to fully disable the Sophos LSP Be interesting if the affect machines reports as having two firewalls (Windows and the AV).

Guess again, look at the G-Cloud, I've found two so far: Integris G2 | CloudStore | Gov.UK Arbor Education Adaptive Management Platform | CloudStore | Gov.UK

...and the KB is....

Eh? I thought exam officers all logged on at 1min past midnight! Yes, cloud was designed for this sort of thing. I'm sure someone like Rackspace would absolutely LOVE them to come a customer, would be a perfect case study.

Interesting point @CAM, maybe we should be fixing the exam boards first? - PS: More money in exams then MIS systems.

@kinster - nope. No ScholarPack, thing, school only bigger... Funny enough I said that on Twitter, what if Google\someone wrapped a MIS around it. @pcstru - don't think census would be too much of a problem if you had someone dedi too it, it's pretty well documented, it's things like OfSted that are pretty difficult - personally.

We did, by we, I mean ScholarPack, it was open-source, no one helped out, they took it commercial. It doesn't work. Need a backer like the DfE, then we hit the... Buy off the shelf does seem to be the way to go

If you find out, don't stand near me.

Nope. Not sure they would want me, I'm pretty annoying when I want people to fix something for me. - Yes @GREED, this is me tame. Sounds pretty techy reason, so how will this make peoples lives better who actually use the system. Believe it or not, I know a "club" that bought SIMS as it was easier then a spreadsheet for basic record keeping, I know, keeps me up at night as well. Yup, ScholarPack springs to mine. Why thank you kind sir I personally don't believe you can profit from schools - clearly people do, just not sure I'm one of them. If the public sector built something, I'd be all over that like a rash.

That sounds like advertising to me @GREED, quick hit him with the mod stick! Going back on topic, not sure how well IM would work for MIS support. Tend to find you telephone for "instant" help and email for "at some point". Ah welcome to the being ignored club, still waiting to hear who has the problems that warrants a new MIS in the first place - ie headteacher, office staff, techy. Anyway, I'll shut up now.

You sir, are making me want to get into the manufacturing business. Pretty sure I could find someone to knock a few up for a few pennies if I mass order.

Haha, didn't cost us a penny. They started billing after we got them, something like £15 a plate now or something isn't it? It's all that p&p!

One of the things I was looking at was using (Arbor) API to extract the data then see if I could, at least some of the data anyway, get back into SIMS .net using the API in attempt to find out how difficult it would be undo that dice roll.

I prefer "direct". Interesting you say you a lot of complaints from your schools in Leeds - they are accredited support team, which means that a independent company has surveyed the LA's schools and they have received something like 90% positive feedback from the end user. Perhaps you've been listening to the technicians moaning about upgrades rather the actual users who spend their days working in the MIS?

I don't mean to be rude @kinster but we've seen alot of MIS suppliers floating around and you look alot like one. If are a school, then apologies, could you give a bit more info on your school, like @elsiegee40 said, you choice will depending on your setup. If your a simple primary then yes, SIMS is pretty bloated and something like ScholarPack would be better. If you're a secondary then ScholarPack isn't the way to go, they are primary focused. Also, like @elsiegee40 said, @GREED has pull together some data that you can download as a spreadsheet, for free, which will give you a list of schools and their MIS - so you can find out who has actually changed from SIMS to whatever MIS your interested in AND more importantly completed the Autumn Census!

Did it have one of those eco stickers on it about telling you how green they are?

I'll admit I've been tempted to get a Wii-U, simply put, I have a child, if you look at the main selection of games for the xbox\playstation, it's not aimed a children. The Wii-U is. If I was Nintendo I would ditch the console market and just make games for a family section for xbox. Heck the only reason I'd plug a Wii-U into the TV is for Mario! Only nice thing about the Wii-U is that it's backwards compatible (can play Wii games). Surely game development is more profitable then game development + console development. Hopefully Microsoft and Nintendo will sign some agreement so I can get Mario on the xbox

Yup. HP blanking plates. Express air courier from Europe, massive box (like you'd use for a hdd), one plate. We got sent 30 of them. Last we ever ordered HP when we didn't want DVD drives.

Would love to see the poor devs face when he reads that