Nuttyprof

@Tallwood_6 - We were one of the first schools in the UK to use the new ParentMail payment service (+Pay) and we've been using it for 6 months now. We picked it mainly because it was built into ParentMail which we already used, but we also picked it because they are always available on the phone between 0830 and 1730 weekdays. Over the years we've had reason to call them from time to time as you would expect and in EVERY case a human being has answered the phone within a few seconds. For us the reassurance of being able to do this is worth a great deal because "You never really know how good a company is until something goes wrong!" The +Pay service does integrate with NRS and has been a pleasure to use with very few if any issues. I'd recommend them for the service alone. Hope that helps.

hooray - at last a chance to get stuff done, although it's cleaning first for me I'm afraid (Mind you whose idea was it to take the power down later today )

I don't recall saying that ParentMail handle the data management side of things did I? Show me a school secretary who hasn't tried to call a parent using a mobile number stored in SIMS to find that the number is wrong or has been changed. It might be inconvenient for you, but it's a fact of life and something most school secretaries will have experienced many times. Every change made by parents in ParentMail is pushed straight back to school the instant it happens. All updates are also stored on a downloadable CSV inside each schools account. This way schools can make changes back in SIMS at a time that suits them - we do it once each week. It means we make constant but small updates to SIMS with just the relevant changes, rather than a once yearly massive data collection process which involves checking every piece of data to see if it has been changed. It works well for us and saves us lots of time - but please don't let me persuade you Edu-IT ... keep doing what you're doing if it works for you

Why speculate and pour cold water on a product through ignorance !?!?! ParentMail imports SIMS data directly, however it doesn't include the parent contact data from SIMS. This comes in from parents completing 'opt-in' data slips which ParentMail inputs so the school doesn't have to. (This is done within the PM subscription charges which are comparable with other products on the market). It is a process that ensures parents only ever get information if they opt-in, and also ensures that the contact data is bang up to date. Where contact data is extracted from SIMS it is often missing or out of date and so the comms service is limited by the quality and comprehensiveness of this data. It then becomes the schools burden to maintain the quality of this data in order that messages get home successfully (the comms provider doesn't care!). ParentMail is different and allows parents to login to their own accounts and update their own contact data and their system notifies the school whenever a parents updates their details. They also automatically remind parents to do this every term. In summary, we chose ParentMail very carefully ... because their processes are better thought out in terms of maintaining data accuracy over the long term, and also because they try hard not to place the school in any danger from a DP standpoint. They also take a longer view of the amount of work a school has to do to keep communications accurate. Apologies if this reads like an advert (and No I don't before someone asks) ... but I hate to see products maligned by people who are simply speculating. Amanda.

I should check your facts here Edu-IT. Most of the systems to my knowledge take name and class/year plus email and mobile data out of SIMS. Also ParentMail are the ONLY company that by default provide parents with a registration letter so that they 'opt-in' in all cases. In fact we chose them for that reason. They also NEVER take contact data straight from SIMS/MIS so there is no way they can contact parents who haven't opted in. With regard to APPS I can't comment on that being offered by Schoolcomms, but I am told it is for schools to use rather than Parents (I could be wrong). ParentMail came into school about 3 weeks ago and their APP is aimed at parents rather than the school hence it being called ParentPlanner. It is designed to help them pay school bills and get calendar items (from school and clubs) onto their mobiles ... just to make organising kids activities easier. We use PM to send text messages internationally and to international numbers with no problem. The charge is the same as those sent in the UK. Amanda.

see numerous similar independent/objective posts! Personally I recommend you read the endless similar threads. Trouble is it's the same few people stating the same opinions over and over again! Why don't you invite a few of these potential suppliers into your school. It will be interesting to see which ones can be bothered and THAT should tell you something. As I keep repeating to my colleagues ... we're buying a service not a commodity! And BTW - watch out for cheap text messages ... it often means they are using 'grey' routes (international mobile carriers) rather than UK only. The 'texting only' specialists tend to use these to get their prices as cheap as possible. There are security as well as reliability issues to be concerned about here. Ask for a written guarantee they are using UK services only. Amanda.

The solution is in your own hands? The more schools that stay away from InTouch and support the small guys, the better the chance they will all still be around in 3 years time :-) and the less likely Capita is to keep treading all over their supposed partners! Or you can just play straight into Capita's hands and take the safe option. Should be an easy decision for you - I hope.

How many of you guys are still using IE6 and for those that are, why have you chosen not to upgrade? Thanks, A.N

We started using +Pay (+Pay - Helping Schools Manage and Collect Payments from Parents) 3 months ago and the reason we chose it was because it's built into our existing ParentMail system. This means we never get a disconnect between messages and payments as they are part of one system. As you setup the payment item you setup the email/text reminders at the same time and then the system fires out 'new payment event' announcements by email automatically the moment you put the payment event live! (The reminders only go to the relevant parents so not everyone get bothered by loads of announcements ) It's very neat and works brilliantly. With regard to promoting again this is really easy. Every regular communications message we send home via ParentMail has a footer we can build, which constantly reminds parents about the payment facility. We've also used posters and parents evenings to get the message across and have over 90% of our parents registered with ParentMail ... and therefore automatically registered to use +Pay. Lastly because we can take payments over the phone from parents we now collect overdue funds from hard to reach parents in this way, and we are talking about encouraging parents to call in to pay over the phone (or in person if they prefer) routinely to make it easier for them. For us the aggravation of getting money from parents at the right time is big enough to justify making someone available to take their calls when they want to pay. Sorry about the verbosity but I hope it was useful! Amanda.

We decided to use ParentMail some months ago, not because they were offering a better or cheaper comms product (they're about the same as others), but because they also offer a payment service which you leave off or can add on at any time. This means we can tell parents about dinner money or trips and they can pay easily online. Our first payment events went live last week and we're all really chuffed so far - the first parent payments are coming in and it's really easy to see what is going on.

Like I said previously, I'm beginning to think this forum is a closed shop and that any comments/question against Capita (however justified or in the public interest) are not wanted.

Oh dear Mr Neal! You can hide behind "who might be bashing Capita" if you like, but a serious question has been asked here and YOU have not provided ANY substantial detail to answer it! The level of technical understanding to properly configure a firewall is considerable and if done badly, will be disastrous! Tying down access using a Firewall doesn't prevent people from probing other TCP ports for example, so it needs doing properly. Who at Primary school level will be doing this, and if it's being done by an outside body (even the Local Authority), how much are they telling the school in terms of what the precise level of access will be? I wonder also as to "who" will now be held responsible for the safety of personal data given there is 3rd party access (and risk)? I think 'PiqueABoo's points about authentication need answering .... not palming away as being paranoid. For myself, I would not sanction a permanent VPN connection unless I was in charge of setting it up personally. I fear that this will not be the case for lots of schools! Lastly, and this will not be received well by some; I'm really tired every time someone challenges Mr Neal (or Capita generally) with a reasonable question or concern, that they get accused of being an anti Capita agent! It is perfectly reasonable to ask questions for goodness sake - but more importantly to GET ANSWERS!

Thanks for the corrections John and apologies for providing incorrect information. We don't use ParentPay and we have only seen a demo (which clearly was not as good as it should have been!) As I said in my post, the decision for us has been made to go with +Pay and this is largely because we already use ParentMail (although the product is also much nicer to use IMHO - intuitive, user-friendly etc for the office). I should also have provided some cost comparisons in my last post for a more complete answer so I've shown these below; Transaction charges Consumer credit cards: ParentPay 1.55% + 10p per transaction (+Pay 1.65% with no extra transaction charge) Consumer Debit Cards: ParentPay 32 pence per transaction (+Pay 32 pence per transaction) ParentPay offer Paypoint where parents can top up cards using cash in post offices (+Pay doesn't offer this yet as they think it it too expensive (rates) for schools, but will add it if there is demand (Mr Temple comment again) +Pay offer PAYPAL for parents (rate 1.9% + 20 per transaction) - ParentPay don't offer PAYPAL. There's not a lot between the two in terms of 'per transaction/ costs, but +Pay will be marginally cheaper for credit card payments. With regard to subscription costs +Pay can only be used with ParentMail (it's embedded into the product). For a typical school of say 300 students, ParentMail +Pay will cost £698 per annum For the same school using ParentPay, it will cost £700 in year 1, and then £500 in year 2 onwards (based on £1 per pupil, £200 annual license and £200 setup in 1st year). For a larger school 1000 pupils --> +Pay £1398 per annum / ParentPay - £1400 in Year 1, followed by £1200 per annum thereafter. 2000 pupils --> +Pay £1998 per annum / ParentPay - £2200 in Yeal 1, followed by £2000 per annum thereafter. These are published list prices but I'm sure discounts for group purchases will make the prices above cheaper. Looks to me that +Pay (being the newcomer) have set their prices to be competitive with ParentPay but that may be the cynic in me ;-) When you take into account +Pay slightly lower transaction charges for credit cards ... there's nothing between them as far as price goes. Hope this info is useful. Amanda.

Backoffice, I've now seen both systems properly so can give you my thoughts. 1. ParentPay has cashless catering links setup whilst +Pay doesn't yet (but I've spoken to the Director responsible for +Pay (Mr Temple) and he has given me a list of the first 6 cashless companies +Pay will integrate with and confirmed the links will be live by January. They are already coding the API's) 2. ParentPay's new comms suite (Parents Communications Centre) seems disconnected/separate from the payment system. It's not integrated into the payment items/events which means you have to remember to generate manual messages at the right time. 3. +Pay integrates messaging (email/sms) into the payment items i.e. as you create each payment item/event, you add in the relevant parents and setup the messaging type/date. It's all one process so that once the payment item is setup the messages go out automatically at the right time and only to the specific parents (not to everyone). Looking at the parent side there seems to be a big difference. 1. ParentPay - parents see all items that could be paid for (even those not relevant) and when the parent pays for an item, it still remains visible i.e. it could be paid for twice! 2. +Pay - parents only see the payment items that are directly relevant to them and when they pay for the item it vanishes from the display (moves to history). From a purely aesthetic perspective +Pay wins hands down and it has IMHO a much nicer/easier user experience. I think since ParentPay has been around for some considerable time it will undoubtedly have bells and whistles that +Pay doesn't have, but for us we're already using ParentMail and so +Pay is the obvious choice. Hope that helps and isn't too biased! Amanda.

Our experience also Gary With regard to FOSS not being 'free', one normally finds that the cost element comes not from the software, but for ongoing support and development. Surely we can't expect anyone to provide schools with this for free! My pet concern is that "it is always easier to stick with what we have" and that leads to dreadful lack on inertia and progress, especially with regard to trying new stuff. It's also why the largest companies providing software in our sector continue to become ever more powerful!

The man revealeth his hand does he not ... schools are not up to the job, but Capita are! Hmm ... useful design decision eh? Do you really think that messaging for a single school is going to take up so much space, and that we can't deal with simple data management Mr Neal? Oh sorry, you're just trying to be helpful aren't you @Matt40K - none taken Neither paranoid nor ill informed, but very concerned at the erosion of the schools right to own and be responsible for it's own data, and deeply suspicious of Capita's land grabbing tactics (and their motives).

We had a demo last week of a new payment service (+Pay - Helping Schools Manage and Collect Payments from Parents) I say new but the company behind it aren't new (ParentMail) but its the first time I've seen payment items/events properly integrated into communications (email/sms). It works like a wizard whereby you setup the base parameters i.e. payment description and amount, and then setup payment deadlines and associated message reminders before finally adding the relevant pupils/parents. Really neat! We're ordering next week so will be happy to share info with anyone interested.

Don't you just hate how Capita are trying to rule the world! It's only a matter of time until ALL SIMS instals are on centrally hosted systems, and the data which used to be 'owned' by schools will suddenly be owned by Capita. There's a scary thought. :-(

first poster here ... but i have to start somewhere We use ParentMail and have nothing but good things to say about them. (Our messages worked brilliantly last year through the snow?) The other thing I must say (as a techie) is that it's great to always be able to speak with a human being there ... I notice one or two of the others now do support by email, and are not keen to talk to schools when there is a problem. There's also one or two innacuracies in this thread about the ParentMail SIMS link i.e. It isn't just on setup, you can run it as often as you like to sync data. We're also looking at ParentPay for payments but ParentMail have just added a payment module called +Pay (... I think) which we've seen a demo of and it looks brilliant. The SLT team meet to discuss both options amongst other things in a couple of weeks so we'll see what happens. Amanda.