[sims] What's wrong with Capita

[matt40k]

Sure I'm about to open a can of worms, but this has annoyed me a bit and I just wanted to see what others thought.

[rant]

Basically it was from Capita newsletter - New SIMS video - producing quick student lists

 

"Bring your own devices (BYOD)"

 

OK, I like the idea, but I don't like the fact that Capita is trying to muscle in to every area. Capita Children Services are software development company, I wish they could concentrate on doing just that and work with other companies to do rest, ie they're hosted solutions are done by a company that already has the infrastructure in place, has been doing it for a while and then SIMS bit is just added on. So when you see an article called "Bring your own devices (BYOD)" you aren't thinking some bright spark is going to try and tell your school that a managed wireless network will do it all. (i'm just guess that's what they'll say).

 

I just feel Capita are abusing they're position to resell rubbish. Anyway, just what I'm thinking, what do you all thing.

 

[/rant]

[pcstru]

Capita Children Services are software development company,

 

I don't think that's been true since they were properly SIMS (and even then they were developing support and consultancy services). Under Capita they have expended a reasonable effort developing support services and that must account for a not-to-be-sniffed-at chunk of CES year to year earnings.

[pete]

My impression with CES is that their coverage (support, knowledge, capability) on non-core products is lacking. There's several areas from a support perspective where if one key person is unavailable, customer issues that can't be resolved in a simple manner will stack up and drag on.

 

Add to this a lack of polish in back-end areas (audit trails(1), logging(2), infrastructure monitoring(3), hosting(4)) that end-users won't see, but sysadmins will rant about.

 

I do often feel they're punting the moon on a stick to people who can't always critically assess their ability to deliver the goods or fix issues above first-line helldesk in a timely manner.

 

1) SLG, SIMS

2) ibid

3) If I'm calling you to let you know the disk on your server is full, you should be paying me

4) Supportnet

[edutech4schools]

I assume this is the same Capita

London fire brigade to outsource 999 control centre | Guardian Government Computing | Guardian Professional

[localzuk]

I assume this is the same Capita

London fire brigade to outsource 999 control centre | Guardian Government Computing | Guardian Professional

 

Same Capita, different division.

[matt40k]

Yes and No. Same group, not same Capita sub-company. Capita education sector is small fry in the scale of Capita. Capita do your TV licensing and the congestion charges for London, along with alot of other things.

 

Also I'll say with regards to sub-departments\companies of Capita working together well, is B2B and Norfolk's centrally hosted solution.

[vikpaw]

I noticed that, and saw that they wanted you to tweet them if you were considering it. We're already going down that road with naff all planning or forethought, the last thing we want is Capita supporting the view it's great and rushing us down the road.

They have always had this IT consultancy arm on the periphery but i don't know who takes it up, maybe just Primaries without in-house know how.

[pcstru]

Yes and No. Same group, not same Capita sub-company. Capita education sector is small fry in the scale of Capita.

Yes and no. In the totality of Capita turnover, yes. But CES certainly was and probably still is one of the most profitable parts of Capita - one of a small flock of golden geese surrounded by a bunch of limited term - pure service contracts.

Also I'll say with regards to sub-departments\companies of Capita working together well, is B2B and Norfolk's centrally hosted solution.

 

Do you mean CES's B2B product on the One platform and SIMS?

[enjay]

They have always had this IT consultancy arm on the periphery

I think you've got that backwards - Capita is an enormous IT consultant and service provider, with Education Services on the periphery.

[matt40k]

Do you mean CES's B2B product on the One platform and SIMS?

 

Yer, with regards to Capita talking between departments - B2B being the "link" between ONE (LA) and SIMS (Schools).

 

Norfolk being the Capita talking between "companies", well rather the technical side being rubbish (from what I understand - something to do with an problem on the identity service stopping people using the live system for a number of months (or was it only weeks - someone on here posted about it anyway - feel free to correct me).

[vikpaw]

I think you've got that backwards - Capita is an enormous IT consultant and service provider, with Education Services on the periphery.

 

Sure, i meant, the Education Services arm, always have it in their documentation that they offer consultancy, it's always an optional service / add-on for maintenance agreements. I remember they were offering software purchase advice at my old school. They could really do well out of some Sharepoint consultancy i'm sure.

 

Actually came across a really cool, and cheap tool recently that will perform a rebrand / theme on a sharepoint site, which would be quite a nice service i'm sure for many schools that don't have in house tech.

[pcstru]

Yer, with regards to Capita talking between departments - B2B being the "link" between ONE (LA) and SIMS (Schools).

Perhaps it's pedantic, but I don't believe that B2B working is really the result of departments talking to each other, rather it's the result of making B2B the responsibility of a single project team (on the LA side).

[Beduffshirl]

Yes and No. Same group, not same Capita sub-company. Capita education sector is small fry in the scale of Capita. Capita do your TV licensing and the congestion charges for London, along with alot of other things.

Also I'll say with regards to sub-departments\companies of Capita working together well, is B2B and Norfolk's centrally hosted solution.

 

IBM have done Congestion charging for at least two years now

[tombry]

after only six months with SIMS, I hate that there is no audit trail, I hate the limited documentation (both from Capita as well as the LA support services), and I hate the general response of, "well, we offer a class for that", which really just teaches you how to do whatever one specific thing they want to show you.

 

been annoying me to no end this week as I start to gather things to look into over the summer holiday.

[matt40k]

I hate the limited documentation

 

Log in to SIMS, then click Documentation... a few thousand pages later...

[matt40k]

Perhaps it's pedantic, but I don't believe that B2B working is really the result of departments talking to each other, rather it's the result of making B2B the responsibility of a single project team (on the LA side).

 

Perhaps, will see what happens with v4.

[tombry]

Log in to SIMS, then click Documentation... a few thousand pages later...

 

yes yes, there is tons and tons in there - but it doesn't go over the more advanced things - like attaching excel templates with macros to reports, and when I ask for the instructions to do so, my support team tells me it's too complicated, but I can pay them to come sit with me and such - thankfully I found the document on here for getting excel macros and such into the template.

 

I found the assessment manager document I think I wanted, but I'm still not sure it's going to tell me everything I want to know, especially when it comes to using the analysis portions of it. A great deal of it is still, "do this, do this, do this", but not very much of the, "we are doing this because of..."

 

but again, I've only been using it for 6 months, perhaps I just need to be more patient.

[matt40k]

I think it's really a question of perfecting your tweaking (or as Microsoft calls them, macros) and understanding Capita logic (ie workarounds). Like on SupportNet, when you check a case, you can't go direct from the forums to the websupport, you have to go back to the home page, then to case, otherwise you get an error.

[Tired_of_lies]

Yes, unfortunately the internal policy is not to make the system easier and user friendly to use, it is to push the use of the expensive training services. All suggestions for improvements from within the software teams are met with a blank wall, as these would interfere with the lucrative revenue stream. Eventually they give up and either leave, or become a 'lifer' just plodding along doing what the managers tell them.

 

Remember that this company is there not to help you, but to maximize it's revenue. The documentation simply smokescreens the deliberate lack of UXP.

[CAM]

I was wondering how Capita can release software with such a shoddy and complicated UI. That actually explains it quite well. That said, I have seen improvements in the software and it's interface with the recent but gradual opening up of the MIS market.

[Tired_of_lies]

You have to take a step back from that and say from a business point of view - what does that represent? So it's worthwhile investing the money in a new set of software and interfaces to chase this market. Maintaining and improving what you have already sold is just not cost effective. From an ethical point of view taking pride in the product and making it the best you can in a business environment takes second place where you are selling into a captured market.

 

A good example of this is the use of live Wirral children's data in the SIMS training packages data.

[vikpaw]

Funny, i got a letter recently, saying that all dealings regarding Groupcall Emerge now have to be done directly with Groupcall, so the two companies can maintain distance for the advantage of the customers. It implies that Capita will be entering the market in that area soon - meanwhile i'm still waiting on a patch. I know they're different teams, but maybe they could close down the expansion team and put them to work in the 'old modules need work' team.

[Tired_of_lies]

Now that's a nice thought. Now if there was internal documentation on the old modules that was usable, instead of it all being in the lifer's heads, there would definately be a possibility of that. However, once a developer has escaped the maintenance team they will fight tooth and nail to keep working on the new stuff. They are more likely to leave and move on if there is no more new style work available. Remember that once you know the new technology and techniques you will be able to escape and get a better job - once embedded in the old side, there is no escape...

 

..and though there is an agreement to let the partners (like groupcall) know about the interfaces change and the contents of those changes, at any time there is no co-operative agreement to stop them writing out the partners with their own versions within a new release.

 

I recall one of them complaining that Capita uses it's revenue to develop new changes in unfair competition - well yes, when an elephant is plodding along behind you, don't stop suddenly.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Tired_of_lies

[matt40k]

Think Capita's a bit like Tesco. People moan about how they control the market and have a monopoly and how they have branched out into other fields to attempt to meet profit targets, but that's a problem with society, not with the individual company. So long as they don't forget the core service which is why you're there, we'll all be fine. After all, no-one shops in Tesco if it was open rubbish hours and it cost a small fortune. I do think Capita needs to get back to the core service.

 

A good example of this is the use of live Wirral children's data in the SIMS training packages data.

 

Eh?

[vikpaw]

But it does cost a small fortune and they aren't open 24 hours!